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bombing HQ's - 2/3/2013 10:49:41 PM

Maximeba

Posts: 174
Joined: 8/9/2009
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
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I asked this question once before but no one responded. So, I will try it again.
In reading of old posts, I thought I read that bombing of HQ's should be avoided due to the unusually high death rate of commanders. In our current game that I'm playing we do not bomb HQ's. We don't want to distort the game by killing off an unusual high amount of commanders (although I wouldn't mind seeing a few dead German leaders).
We are playing version 1.16 so my question is this. Can or can't we bomb HQ's? If we are not going to bomb HQ's why put AA units in them. I will just keep for the front line troops. Also, how does one get to support units such as artillery if you do not bomb HQ's? Isn't this an unfair advantage for the Germans as they are limited in manpower?

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Post #: 1

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/4/2013 1:06:20 AM

turtlefang

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I don't know if they have changed anything in the last update.

Prior to that, bombing HQs would result in a high chance of leader losses. In 41, this favored the Germans. By mid-42, the Soviet have the advantage as the new bomber's come on line. They can literally destroy the German leadership structure by the end of 42 and never look back.

The recommendation is: 1) don't put HQs alone in a hex, 2) most players adopt a houserule limiting HQ bombing (the most common seems either 0 or 3 per turn), 3) even if you have a house rule, unless you manually use your entire airforce, they will sometimes bomb enemy HQ so you need flak.

How much flak you put with your HQs is really up to you. As the Soviet, I try to put one PVO regiment per HQ. Overtime, this protects my leaders but increases the German air losses way beyond what my early Soviet AF can do. Now, this depends on APs, Admin Pts and manpower - but its what I try to do.

For the Germans, in 41, I ALWAYS stack my HQ with somebody if possible. And I rarely assign them flak except at the Corps HQ level so that they commit to combat. But that's my perference given the ineffectivnesses of the Soviet AF until the first blizzard.

This doesn't directly answer your question as I haven't seen anything on this issue since the last upgrades. But its the best I can offer.

Hope this helps!

(in reply to Maximeba)

Post #: 2

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/4/2013 8:34:34 AM

cpt flam

Posts: 2352
Joined: 1/16/2011
From: caen - France
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even not bombing HQ
you will not have enough flak to give one to everybody
those with an HQ can be affected to a combat
you will affect support unit when they go to an assault
that's the early losses for russia

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Post #: 3

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/4/2013 8:10:09 PM

Peltonx

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Its a broken part of the game that the players have fixed using house rules. No bombing HQ's. Allot will still get killed by recon

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Post #: 4

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 12:33:00 AM

Maximeba

Posts: 174
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From: Buffalo, NY, USA
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Thanks, for the anwers. We decided to bomb HQ's, but limited ourselves to three attacks per HQ in any given turn.

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Allies Forever

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Post #: 5

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 7:07:47 AM

delatbabel

Posts: 1252
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From: Sydney, Australia
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With 3 HQ bombing attacks per turn, every turn, for every HQ, I can kill every leader in the German army by late 1944.

You need to be more restrictive than that.

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Post #: 6

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 8:33:17 AM

randallw

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The bug where gobs of leaders could be killed by one mass air attack was interesting.

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Post #: 7

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 9:25:53 AM

Von Weber

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quote:

Allot will still get killed by recon

What do you mean Pelton? Can recon cause leader's death too?

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Post #: 8

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 10:49:37 AM

morvael

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Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
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In my game it killed many leaders: Vatutin, Rokossovsky, Reiter, Meretskov, Chuikov, Khozin, Bobkin.

edit: generally speaking, recon is "enemy activity" and as such it can cause leader death nearby. Don't know why it can't be patched out.

< Message edited by morvael -- 2/6/2013 10:50:20 AM >

(in reply to Von Weber)

Post #: 9

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 11:06:20 AM

gradenko2k

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
With 3 HQ bombing attacks per turn, every turn, for every HQ, I can kill every leader in the German army by late 1944.

You need to be more restrictive than that.

What happens when there are no more leaders in the reserve, and then the current leader gets killed? Crash to desktop?

(in reply to delatbabel)

Post #: 10

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 2:19:54 PM

Von Weber

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Joined: 11/30/2012
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quote:

In my game it killed many leaders: Vatutin, Rokossovsky, Reiter, Meretskov, Chuikov, Khozin, Bobkin.

edit: generally speaking, recon is "enemy activity" and as such it can cause leader death nearby. Don't know why it can't be patched out.

It is unbelievable.

Does it also happen if HQ is in stack and having flak SU or just standing alone with nothing AA? Should be recon restricted then by some how?

(in reply to gradenko2k)

Post #: 11

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 2:26:48 PM

morvael

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Don't know. Two recon planes 10 miles from the HQ (next hex) that itself was 30 miles from the front and no other enemy activity in at least 100 miles and it still killed my leader.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3214593

< Message edited by morvael -- 2/6/2013 2:27:49 PM >

(in reply to Von Weber)

Post #: 12

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 6:42:04 PM

Cerion

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From: Europe
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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

In my game it killed many leaders: Vatutin, Rokossovsky, Reiter, Meretskov, Chuikov, Khozin, Bobkin.

edit: generally speaking, recon is "enemy activity" and as such it can cause leader death nearby. Don't know why it can't be patched out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Two recon planes 10 miles from the HQ (next hex) that itself was 30 miles from the front and no other enemy activity in at least 100 miles and it still killed my leader.

Disheartening

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 13

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 7:23:56 PM

Helpless

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There was no prove that recon kills any leaders. if you able to reproduce it please post a save in tech section. Thanks.

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Post #: 14

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/6/2013 7:44:14 PM

morvael

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It might have been connected with relative closeness of HQs to the front (3 hexes). When more away (5 hexes) they started to be safe. Problem is in bad weather (mud) the HQs have to be moved closer again, so the unit remain in command range. Plus side is less trucks needed to move supplies and (I think) better replacements flow. Maybe the leader deaths from proximity to front could be reduced yet again (it was toned down in some patch)? This is especially important for the Soviets, as their Army HQ has short command range. Also, I thought for a "fix" so that leaders before their "end date" would have less chance to die (therefore leaders that died or retired would be KIA more often than those who lived to the end of the war).

(in reply to Helpless)

Post #: 15

RE: bombing HQ's - 2/7/2013 12:20:58 PM

DesertedFox

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Joined: 8/3/2004
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As per an earlier post/request of mine, this (leader deaths through combat) should be an option at the start of a game.

I am sure most players would turn it to "off".