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Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/13/2013 1:24:47 AM

Darkspire

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After I managed to sort out what was causing the game breaking ship design bug that no one seemed to care about or notice I got to work on designs for the AI and for the first time ever Ive got AI making ships that do actually cause me to worry about things and in this latest game they are actually using a defense posture, never seen that before in my games before playing with the designs, so apologies if I'm finding the glass half full (In red, middle) its small but its something

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 2/13/2013 1:27:16 AM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/14/2013 4:19:56 AM

unclean

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This all part of the unnamed mod you've been working on?

Cool stuff.

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/14/2013 10:58:45 PM

Fishers of Men

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Darkspire, you need to share how you were able to accomplish this. I would really like to know how to create challenging AI designs.

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/15/2013 7:47:11 AM

Tanaka

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Well whatever this bug is I sure hope the devs listen to you and they fix this in the expansion!

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/15/2013 8:29:34 AM

Blueberry

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AI ship designs have always been most unimpressive. That's one element that has always annoyed and really disappointed me. Hope the expansion will include some serious AI tweaking so that it ends up offering some decent challenge to the players, especially during the late game drama.

Any tweakings/improvements to the AI's ship designs and construction volumes by the fellow DW players/modders would also be greatly appreciated.

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/15/2013 9:29:14 AM

Darkspire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishers of Men

Darkspire, you need to share how you were able to accomplish this. I would really like to know how to create challenging AI designs.

Have a look in the DW root folder at the 'Whats New' PDF. It explains with the new update that you can create ship designs to put in the theme folder for each race. All Ive done is to try and create designs that reflect the race there made for, making sure to include any special tech that is set in the race file.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Well whatever this bug is I sure hope the devs listen to you and they fix this in the expansion!

This is from a post yesterday that explains what it is, I re wrote my theme four times trying to find out what it was and always suspected the policy files but could not put my finger on it, I was editing the policy files for my fourth re write and noticed the extra lines when I loaded all the policy files to edit them (I tend to load and edit them all at the same time using Textpad as it is easier to track changes), my in game saved policy file had the extra lines. As that was the only thing I had not thought of I put the old one, not saved in game and everything worked fine.

quote:

I would be careful with putting the time into designs, there is still a major bug in that somehow the design files are in conflict with the policy files. There have been a few lines added to the policy files that were not saving from in game in a recent update, problem is using those policy files for the race with those lines added will mean the design files for that race can not be deleted or moved or it will just come up 'could not start this game' when you start a new game with the design files moved or deleted, as folks like to change things about in a mod that would break the mod if they moved / deleted design files for a race and also saved the policy files in game. Using the old policy files without those lines added doesn't have any problems.
Ive tried to point out the problem but no one seems to want to notice, I gave up with post in tech support in the end.

Darkspire

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/16/2013 9:32:52 PM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishers of Men

Darkspire, you need to share how you were able to accomplish this. I would really like to know how to create challenging AI designs.

Have a look in the DW root folder at the 'Whats New' PDF. It explains with the new update that you can create ship designs to put in the theme folder for each race. All Ive done is to try and create designs that reflect the race there made for, making sure to include any special tech that is set in the race file.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Well whatever this bug is I sure hope the devs listen to you and they fix this in the expansion!

This is from a post yesterday that explains what it is, I re wrote my theme four times trying to find out what it was and always suspected the policy files but could not put my finger on it, I was editing the policy files for my fourth re write and noticed the extra lines when I loaded all the policy files to edit them (I tend to load and edit them all at the same time using Textpad as it is easier to track changes), my in game saved policy file had the extra lines. As that was the only thing I had not thought of I put the old one, not saved in game and everything worked fine.

quote:

I would be careful with putting the time into designs, there is still a major bug in that somehow the design files are in conflict with the policy files. There have been a few lines added to the policy files that were not saving from in game in a recent update, problem is using those policy files for the race with those lines added will mean the design files for that race can not be deleted or moved or it will just come up 'could not start this game' when you start a new game with the design files moved or deleted, as folks like to change things about in a mod that would break the mod if they moved / deleted design files for a race and also saved the policy files in game. Using the old policy files without those lines added doesn't have any problems.
Ive tried to point out the problem but no one seems to want to notice, I gave up with post in tech support in the end.

Darkspire

So your saying it is just a problem with old saved games?

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/16/2013 10:32:42 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

So your saying it is just a problem with old saved games?

No not with saved games, when you enter the Empire Policy screen you have the option of saving the Policy files from 'in game' for the race you are playing, doing so adds those extra lines and causes the problems with moving / deleting design files for that race, those lines help define the AI policy for that race and by not saving the policy files to avoid the problem it is limiting the AI setup options for a race. Hence it needs looking at.

Darkspire

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/20/2013 9:56:26 PM

jpwrunyan

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I thought the devs were using new policy files for the races already... are all the races still using the same basic vanilla space ships as before the last patch???

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/21/2013 5:01:51 AM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

I thought the devs were using new policy files for the races already... are all the races still using the same basic vanilla space ships as before the last patch???

Not sure what you mean about space ships, but the policy files have not changed in the root DW folder with updates. Ive been playing on 'DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17016.exe', I uninstalled DW when I was running 'DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17020beta.exe' so i could see where the problem was, installed DW, updated, installed ROTS, updated, installed Legends and updated to 'DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17016.exe' Ive just not saved the policy files from the save button on the empire policy screen in game so that it doesn't screw up the designs and my theme.

Your the second person to mention the policy files and the fact they should be new and updated so I installed all the beta patches up to 20 and checked the policy files each time, here are the results;

DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17017beta.exe
'Distant Worlds - Empire Policy - 1.7.0.14

DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17018beta.exe
'Distant Worlds - Empire Policy - 1.7.0.14

DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17019beta.exe
'Distant Worlds - Empire Policy - 1.7.0.14

DistantWorlds-Legends-Update-v17020beta.exe
'Distant Worlds - Empire Policy - 1.7.0.14

The policy files in the DW root folder are write protected so that probably doesn't help and going through this again I noticed the 'Distant Worlds Original' theme in the Customization folder has policies that are marked ''Distant Worlds - Empire Policy - 1.7.0.0' so if you change theme and then want to go back to the original theme you will end up with policy files that are out of date unless you know of the problem and have the sense to copy the ones from the root folder into there.

Darkspire

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/21/2013 6:25:56 PM

jpwrunyan

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Well, don't take my word for it that they *should* have changed. I'm clueless. I just remember there was that thread where people were posting files for each race and their spaceship policies and the devs were like "this is great! THIS IS THE BEST THING EVAR" which made me think they were taking the community created files to put in the next vanilla.

edit: maybe I am thinking of something completely different. I am trying to talk about the files that tell races what design of spaceship they want to build and which (I believe) influences the way they research tech.

< Message edited by jpwrunyan -- 2/21/2013 6:26:57 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/21/2013 6:58:34 PM

Darkspire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

Well, don't take my word for it that they *should* have changed. I'm clueless. I just remember there was that thread where people were posting files for each race and their spaceship policies and the devs were like "this is great! THIS IS THE BEST THING EVAR" which made me think they were taking the community created files to put in the next vanilla.

edit: maybe I am thinking of something completely different. I am trying to talk about the files that tell races what design of spaceship they want to build and which (I believe) influences the way they research tech.

I think that would be the policy files. These lines;

DesignComponentAreaWeaponsSpaceports ;N
DesignComponentArmorLevel ;1.0
DesignComponentCountermeasuresMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentDamageControlMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentEnergyCollectorMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentEnginesMainThrustMilitaryLevel ;1.25
DesignComponentEnginesVectoringMilitaryLevel ;1.0
DesignComponentEnsureFullSpeedHyperdriveFromReactorsStateShips ;Y
DesignComponentFighterBaseLevel ;1.0
DesignComponentFighterMilitaryLevel ;0
DesignComponentFleetCountermeasuresMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentFleetTargetTrackingMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentHyperDenyCapitalShips ;Y
DesignComponentIonDefenseMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentLongRangeScannerSpaceports ;Y
DesignComponentMiningStationsArmed ;Y
DesignComponentPointDefenseLevel ;1.0
DesignComponentProximitySensorMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentScannerJammerTroopTransport ;Y
DesignComponentShieldLevel ;2.0
DesignComponentShipScanningCapitalShips ;Y
DesignComponentShipScanningSpaceports ;Y
DesignComponentTargetTrackingMilitary ;Y
DesignComponentTroopMilitaryLevel ;0
DesignComponentWeaponsBeamMilitaryLevel ;1.0
DesignComponentWeaponsTorpedoMilitaryLevel ;1.0

As these lines are not in the 'Modding Guide.PDF' I would presume it is these that your on about. Problem is there other lines as well that get added when you save them in game from the v1.7.0.17 update,

quote:

o Some missing Empire Policy settings are now properly saved: Allow sabotage mission: Destroy base, Allow sabotage mission: Assassinate character, Never recruit troops until colony population reaches X threshold.

Im still not 100% sure but I think its these ones being added that cause the problem with moving or deleting the ship design files. Just wish I could get some concrete feedback from Erik or someone official

Darkspire

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/21/2013 8:02:39 PM

jpwrunyan

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No, that's not it. You know how you can actually save your list of currently designed spaceships and then import them later? IIRC, they totally face-lifted that system so that now you can get the ai to also load those designs as templates. Setting research priorities must be exactly what you showed above. But what I am talking about is a way the player can force the ai empires to use player-made designs with the assumption that those designs are better than letting the ai procedurally generate its own.

When you say "ship design files" that sounds like what I am thinking of, but the lines of code you showed there look like they are from the empire policy file.

I'm just going to have to try to figure it out myself because at the moment I am afraid I am not much help.

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/21/2013 9:26:42 PM

Darkspire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

No, that's not it. You know how you can actually save your list of currently designed spaceships and then import them later? IIRC, they totally face-lifted that system so that now you can get the ai to also load those designs as templates. Setting research priorities must be exactly what you showed above. But what I am talking about is a way the player can force the ai empires to use player-made designs with the assumption that those designs are better than letting the ai procedurally generate its own.

When you say "ship design files" that sounds like what I am thinking of, but the lines of code you showed there look like they are from the empire policy file.

I'm just going to have to try to figure it out myself because at the moment I am afraid I am not much help.

Ah,now we are getting somewhere, That is what this thread is all about

Read the very first post of this thread, cant miss it, its the one with the big picture

Have a look in the DW root folder and you will find a PDF called 'whatsNew', have a look at page4 'Pre-loaded Optimized Designs' that is the section detailing the usage of player created designs by the AI. That is what got me started on this crusade but was unwilling to put time into it, if I moved or deleted the designs from that theme when I started a new game it would come up 'could not start this game', I have since found that any policy files saved in game in the v1.7.0.16 update (and possibly with the beta patches as well, I have read no mention of it being fixed) will not allow those files to be moved or deleted and that that is what is causing the problem, dont ask me why saving the policy file in game will cause the design file problem, I have not a clue, that's why I keep asking but no one will frakkin listen

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 2/21/2013 9:28:46 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/22/2013 3:31:24 AM

jpwrunyan

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Ah, ok. I was with you then from the beginning. Just got worried that I might have misunderstood you. Anyway, I don't know what to say. I haven't messed around with this feature because it looked like a PITA. And since all the modders where submitting their own designs, I thought it was also a done deal in the vanilla. Surely there are people who have accomplished this, though. After they announced this feature everyone had to go wash their underwear so surely someone who knows the system can help you. What about Haree (Cpt Adama avatar)? He's a bigtime modder.

Also, I totally didn't understand what I was looking at on your screen shot. I thought you were just showing that the fleets were finally working. Sorry if I am being dense. The spaceport construction thread is eating my limited brainpower.

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/27/2013 4:26:29 PM

robc04_1

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Darkspire, I was looking at your tech support thread and one of the guys said he sent you a private message a couple weeks ago to try and help you with this issue. Did you ever see the message? If so, did he help shed any light on the issue?

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 2/27/2013 5:07:01 PM

Erik Rutins

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Darkspire,

Can you e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com please?

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 12:26:48 PM

Darkspire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Darkspire,

Can you e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com please?

Regards,

- Erik

Hi Eric, thanks for the response I have sent you an Email.

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 3/1/2013 5:32:50 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 12:45:05 PM

Yskonyn

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I don't know Darkspire, but is this your usual way of responding to people?
I know it is frustrating if people do not seem to catch on to your efforts to get a problem sorted, or at least in the spotlight. But your way of communicating isn't very clear either. Like JP, I have no idea what you mean to show with the screenshot either.
Then, if finally Erik comes around and asks something politely you have to react bluntly? Grow up man. We all have our frustrations, but let's keep things going at an adult level here.

< Message edited by Yskonyn -- 3/1/2013 2:10:48 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 6:03:46 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yskonyn

I don't know Darkspire, but is this your usual way of responding to people?
I know it is frustrating if people do not seem to catch on to your efforts to get a problem sorted, or at least in the spotlight. But your way of communicating isn't very clear either. Like JP, I have no idea what you mean to show with the screenshot either.
Then, if finally Erik comes around and asks something politely you have to react bluntly? Grow up man. We all have our frustrations, but let's keep things going at an adult level here.

You do seem to seem to like my posts

I have no frustrations as regards this problem, although DW has a few major problems, (resource sorting in the expansion planner mid to late game for your own systems is one of them that really winds me up, its near impossible for the time it takes to work through to place mining stations in newly acquired colonies, would be great if another filter could be put in for untapped resources in your own (green) systems, you can do it with just working through each resource but that is still slow when you hit gold/silver/caslon etc) these hic-ups can be worked around and put up with, If there not then as the saying goes 'you can't have your cake and eat it', DW is a very unique game but when something is possibly broken it is sometimes difficult to get the message over as it is a very small, very busy team and it can be difficult to get any feedback.
As for The thread it is about optimized ship designs, I have been working on these since they were first implemented and only recently I felt I could continue with them as I found what was causing the problem, I originally gave up after mucking up three themes and over 1200 designs, only on the fourth time of re-writing the theme did I notice what I found to be the problem. As regards the screenshot, it was in relation to the fact that after completing about four levels of designs I felt that the AI using those designs was giving me a better game. If my demeanor seemed somewhat abrupt, I was just stating that that I had seen the post and responded with the e-mail, I have since amended the offending post and will endeavor to be somewhat more courteous in my future postings so as to not upset you and avoid myself being insulted for a third time

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 3/1/2013 6:06:28 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 6:25:32 PM

w1p

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Darkspire

Thanks for sorting that out, and I don't find you offensive at all!

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 7:13:26 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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From: My Own Private Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: w1p

Darkspire

Thanks for sorting that out, and I don't find you offensive at all!

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 7:53:50 PM

jpwrunyan

Posts: 558
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From: Uranus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yskonyn

I don't know Darkspire, but is this your usual way of responding to people?
I know it is frustrating if people do not seem to catch on to your efforts to get a problem sorted, or at least in the spotlight. But your way of communicating isn't very clear either. Like JP, I have no idea what you mean to show with the screenshot either.
Then, if finally Erik comes around and asks something politely you have to react bluntly? Grow up man. We all have our frustrations, but let's keep things going at an adult level here.

0/10 Obvious troll is obvious.

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 10:41:51 PM

Yskonyn

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Well that was eloquent! ;) Not used to that from you at all. ;) But seriously, thanks for the well spoken reply. I suspect you and I have started out on the wrong foot here and my reaction to your 'short posting style' might have been somewhat misinformed.
My apologies.

Truely epic reply! :D
(Although I still find your previous reply to Erik blunt and sassy)

< Message edited by Yskonyn -- 3/1/2013 10:43:47 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/1/2013 10:53:17 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yskonyn

Well that was eloquent! ;) Not used to that from you at all. ;) But seriously, thanks for the well spoken reply. I suspect you and I have started out on the wrong foot here and my reaction to your 'short posting style' might have been somewhat misinformed.
My apologies.

Truely epic reply! :D
(Although I still find your previous reply to Erik blunt and sassy)

Not used to that from me? As I have only once replied to you directly and once indirectly in the ten years i've been on here I would imagine you would not be used to it

We all have bad days though, If you check through my previous posts you should notice that I try to help with all sorts and am normally quite amenable, I'm not in the best of places as regards life at present and I honestly did not notice the tone of my words of late, so thanks for pointing it out.

Still a double edged sword on your reply though ... Kudos

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 3/1/2013 10:55:25 PM >

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RE: Wow I do Believe It is Working - 3/2/2013 7:22:34 AM

Yskonyn

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The fact that you have only replied to my posts a few times does not say anything. I read these boards and your other posts are not invisible.
It might be that your style of writing is often tongue-in-cheek, as they say.
If one then reads it out of context it might not click.
Thats more the problem of the reader then, I agree, and apologised for that.
Besides, I should not go about taking it up for others like that. I have no idea if you had previous contact and wether it might be an inside joke. The other people (Erik in this case) are probably more than capable of calling you out if they find your reply offensive.
Hows that for reflection on the double edged Sword? :D

On a forum People might disagree though. Thats fine and we can have a good discussion about it instead of just spewing one liners without adding anything.
Not looking at you here, Darkspire.

Let's get back on topic though. I'll take the virtual beer! Lets have a drink, forget about it and do the thing we all like; playing DW. :)

< Message edited by Yskonyn -- 3/2/2013 7:26:08 AM >

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Wow I do Believe It is Working