First attempt at quantifying Allied ship strength

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> The War Room >> First attempt at quantifying Allied ship strength

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First attempt at quantifying Allied ship strength - 12/27/2002 11:29:48 AM

HawaiiFive-O

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

This is my first attempt to quantify the strengths and weaknesses of Allied warships.

If I made any mistakes, please point them out so I can correct them.

Essentially it drove me mad not knowing what ship best fit what role, so I started this list, it's just the DDs right now but I'll get started on the CL/CA/BBs next.

I doubt I'll do the CVs or cargo vessels, as it's pretty clear what you should use those for.

Please note that this is only for the ships that appear in Scenario 17. Also note that ships can get "refitted" at Pearl. So the early Farragut class DDs have one AAA number, and the later ones have a second (higher) number. I am under the assumption that you can send back the obsolete warships and get them back with upgraded weaponry. The same is true with radar, the early DDs lack radar but the later ones of the same class have radar.

For armor, only the Fletcher class has armor, hence the *. Also, the Fletcher's have a superior type of radar, hence the **.

For ASW, the early Mk7 depth charges have an accuracy of 9, the later Mk7/m1 depth charges have an accuracy of 13. It does not appear that it is necessary to send a ship back to Pearl to get the Mk7/m1's, so most of the 9's on the list can truthfully be 13's.

The "ASW Score" column is an attempt to rate the efficacy of the ASW weaponry of the vessel. Right now the formula is # of Launchers * Accuracy. I'm open to other ideas for the formula, of course.

My goal was a playing aid that you can print out and keep in front of you while building your TFs.

The "Best Suited?" column is open to interpretation and I welcome any discussion on my classifications.

Farraguts are easily the worst of the lot, so I'd stick them in Bombardment TFs.

Porters (refitted) have excellent AAA and radar, so they'll be good CV escorts.

Mahans/Gridleys/Benhams have mediocre AAA and ASW, but a lot of torpedoes, so I'd use them in Surface Combat TFs.

The Sims class are better at ASW than the preceding, but not as good as the Bensons or the Aruntas. The Bensons have decent AAA as well, so the Bensons, in a pinch, can serve as CV escorts.

The Bristols shine in the CV escort role, with the best AAA rating of all the DDs.

And the Fletchers are the utility infielders, matching adequate AAA with superior ASW to be excellent CV escorts.

Any comments?

[URL=http://www.ctuit.com/bill/alliedshipcomparison.xls]Allied Ship Comparison (EXCEL file)[/URL]

Post #: 1

- 12/27/2002 11:37:02 AM

HawaiiFive-O

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

Oh, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention that the starting point of my spreadsheet was the excellent Scenario 17 OOB off Spooky's site.

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 2

- 12/27/2002 9:11:40 PM

Ironpaw

Posts: 38
Joined: 12/9/2002
Status: offline

Thanx for the list. I am sure it will be very helpful.

I considered doing something similar for the Japanese, but it was cutting into my UV time - so it had to take a back seat. ha ha ha.

Thanx again.

_____________________________

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 3

- 12/29/2002 8:34:56 AM

HawaiiFive-O

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

Version 2 is now up. It includes Allied Cruisers and Battleships.

I haven't seen many of these ships, so I don't yet know what their AAA rating will be. As I get them I will update the list.

USN CAs seem to go through 3 phases of AAA refits:

Level 1: They are armed with the 1.1" AAA guns.

Level 2: They get some 20 mm Oerlikons and 40 mm Bofors.

Level 3: They get more 40 mm Bofors.

These levels equate to AAA ratings of 932, 1112, and 1432. So, provided you get the ships back from Pearl, sending the 932s back should result in better AAA when they return.

'Course you are out the use of that ship in the meantime.

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 4

- 12/30/2002 2:27:56 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Thanks for posting this; it's very helpful! Do you plan to do something similar for the IJN?

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 5

- 12/30/2002 4:53:43 AM

HawaiiFive-O

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

It's possible...

I was going to play Scenario 17 as the IJN one time to get a feel for how the other side operates, but I'm a little tired of kicking the AI around as the Allies.

Might be time for PBEM.

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 6

Re: First attempt at quantifying Allied ship strength - 12/30/2002 6:36:14 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HawaiiFive-O
[B]This is my first attempt to quantify the strengths and weaknesses of Allied warships.

If I made any mistakes, please point them out so I can correct them.

Essentially it drove me mad not knowing what ship best fit what role, so I started this list, it's just the DDs right now but I'll get started on the CL/CA/BBs next.

I doubt I'll do the CVs or cargo vessels, as it's pretty clear what you should use those for.

Please note that this is only for the ships that appear in Scenario 17. Also note that ships can get "refitted" at Pearl. So the early Farragut class DDs have one AAA number, and the later ones have a second (higher) number. I am under the assumption that you can send back the obsolete warships and get them back with upgraded weaponry. The same is true with radar, the early DDs lack radar but the later ones of the same class have radar.

For armor, only the Fletcher class has armor, hence the *. Also, the Fletcher's have a superior type of radar, hence the **.

For ASW, the early Mk7 depth charges have an accuracy of 9, the later Mk7/m1 depth charges have an accuracy of 13. It does not appear that it is necessary to send a ship back to Pearl to get the Mk7/m1's, so most of the 9's on the list can truthfully be 13's.

The "ASW Score" column is an attempt to rate the efficacy of the ASW weaponry of the vessel. Right now the formula is # of Launchers * Accuracy. I'm open to other ideas for the formula, of course.

My goal was a playing aid that you can print out and keep in front of you while building your TFs.

The "Best Suited?" column is open to interpretation and I welcome any discussion on my classifications.

Farraguts are easily the worst of the lot, so I'd stick them in Bombardment TFs.

Porters (refitted) have excellent AAA and radar, so they'll be good CV escorts.

Mahans/Gridleys/Benhams have mediocre AAA and ASW, but a lot of torpedoes, so I'd use them in Surface Combat TFs.

The Sims class are better at ASW than the preceding, but not as good as the Bensons or the Aruntas. The Bensons have decent AAA as well, so the Bensons, in a pinch, can serve as CV escorts.

The Bristols shine in the CV escort role, with the best AAA rating of all the DDs.

And the Fletchers are the utility infielders, matching adequate AAA with superior ASW to be excellent CV escorts.

Any comments?

[URL=http://www.ctuit.com/bill/alliedshipcomparison.xls]Allied Ship Comparison (EXCEL file)[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]

Your list is fairly accurate. Too bad we can't get the refit routines to be more encompassing (hopefully in WITP). If we could, the old "goldplaters" (prewar DDs) would not seem so bad as many received the latest radars, improved AA and ASW suites (at the cost of torpedo armament). The worst of the lot were Gridley, Craven, Maury and McCall, which were civilian designed and were extremely unstable, so they had torps removed and only received ASW improvements of note...their close in AA never exceeded 8 x 20mm.

The only thing I'd make certain everyone understands is that the Porter and Somers class DDs had single purpose Mk22 5" mounts, which were not AA capable. They are best suited to combat TFs.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 7

Re: Re: First attempt at quantifying Allied ship strength - 12/30/2002 6:43:30 AM

HawaiiFive-O

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]The only thing I'd make certain everyone understands is that the Porter and Somers class DDs had single purpose Mk22 5" mounts, which were not AA capable. They are best suited to combat TFs. [/B][/QUOTE]

So are you saying that the refitted Porter AAA rating of 500 is misleading? Even with this high rating they are ill-suited as CV escorts?

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 8

Re: Re: Re: First attempt at quantifying Allied ship st... - 12/30/2002 7:01:38 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HawaiiFive-O
[B]So are you saying that the refitted Porter AAA rating of 500 is misleading? Even with this high rating they are ill-suited as CV escorts? [/B][/QUOTE]

I've never looked at the ratings really, they are kinda in my head along with a lot of other previously useless info. I'll check. Maybe someone forgot about the SP limitation, or this may be a reflection of the somewhat ahistorical fit of 16 x 40mm(a limitation of the hard coded refit routine). Turrets were removed to make room for this heavy automatic ordnance.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to HawaiiFive-O)

Post #: 9

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> The War Room >> First attempt at quantifying Allied ship strength

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