Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> The War Room >> Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe?

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Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 1/31/2013 1:03:42 AM

murphstein

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Joined: 8/3/2006
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I'm playing AF44 as Axis against Elmer in TOAW 3.4, and am wondering whether others get some use out of the Luftwaffe when it arrives around T15.

I've now watched Elmer annihilate them with airbase attacks in a couple of turns every game. I've tried putting everything (even FBs) on Air Superiority but that didn't seem to help much. Has anyone found a use for the LW in this scenario, or is it just a case of taking your medicine and dealing with it?

Yes, historically the Allies had air superiority (weather permitting), but losing half my aircraft during a "night" turn to air field raids just seems wrong.

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Dan Murphy

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 1/31/2013 5:09:29 PM

Catch21

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Do you have a pre-turn 15 (maybe 13 to turn Elmer off and look around at what he's up to) sal file you can attach to a post here and perhaps some of us can see if there are any viable alternatives?

Historically, overall, does not look too hopeful.

< Message edited by General Staff -- 1/31/2013 5:16:25 PM >

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/1/2013 2:11:22 PM

sPzAbt653

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We played the heck out of this one back in the day and I don't recall Elmer making airfield attacks at all. Usually with an AAA unit in the hex, Elmer won't attack it.

We were mostly done with this one by the time 3.4 came out, so I can only recall playing as the Allies a couple times under 3.4 to test some PO changes to the Germans. Maybe its time to schedule some German play with 3.4. Thanks for the intel Murphstein.

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/1/2013 3:51:20 PM

Telumar

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From: niflheim
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Maybe create a repeating nightly air shock event for both forces. Nightly airfield attacks.. How often did that happen (in history, not in game)?

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/2/2013 2:54:42 AM

ogar

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Another thing to tweak is the aircraft range. If the problem is the B-17 and B-24, you could reduce the range so that they are one hex short of hitting the German airfields from England. As for the airfields along the top of the map, well, I guess they just take their lumps.

Actually, you may want to reduce all the aircraft to make sure their range is one hex less. It looks to me like the short distance from Allied airfields to Germany is 82 hexes, 205 km; so how about changing the range to 200 km ? I'd make a back-up copy of the eqp file first. Then I'd use Parmenio's epq editor (I know, real he-men use XML and pour it back into the eqp.)

And this is something that can be done with event loops for air shock or done as stand-alone.

Elmer does love going after those airfields, doesn't he ? (I haven't played AF - but I've found that in 3.4, that when Elmer has an air force, it's hammer time.)

@Telumar - Nightly airfield attacks in Dec. 1944 ? I do not think there were any, given the weather. And even in Jan 1945, I think they were limited to the usual 100 Group, Bomber Support units dealing with NJG bases. After Jan 1 1945, I suspect there were heavy attacks by 8th AF, but during the day.

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/3/2013 1:52:59 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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Ok, I ran it thru the first three night turns after the planes arrive and Elmer made no attacks on the German airbases. He did make day attacks. Thats not to say that he might not ever make attacks at night, because Murph says that he does.

The Luftwaffe should only have a minimal presence anyway. So at this point I'm not inclined to make any changes. Yes, 'a case of taking your medicine and dealing with it'.

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/16/2013 5:19:59 PM

murphstein

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Thanks for the feedback, all.

Yes, Elmer's aggressiveness varies game to game (I've restarted AF several times from Turn 14 and seen very different behaviors, maybe weather-releated, maybe Elmer's strategic objectives?).

Yes, Elmer's early and heavy attacks on airfields WERE mostly daylight raids; I seem to have forgotten which turns are "day" and which "night"; Turns 17 and 19 are where most of the damage happens. I count 13 distinct multi-unit raids on LW airfields in turn 17 and 8 in turn 19.

Yes, Elmer is hammering airfields with fortified, garrison mode, non-disrupted AA units (garrison mode rear-area AA is another nit for another post).

Yes, I have both SAL and sitrep files for these turns; I've been away long enough that the protocol for file sharing may have changed.

One filtered snippet from a sitrep as an example, so you can see what Elmer's doing in detail in at least one case:

Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies IX TAC (1st A), 422 Nftr bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies XIX TAC (3rd A), 406 Ftr Grp bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 98th Bmr Wing, 323/387 Bmr Grp bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 1st Bmr D, Combat Wing 41 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 1st Bmr D, Ftr Wing 67 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2nd Bmr D, Combat Wing 20 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 3rd Bmr D, Ftr Wing 66 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2 TAF/2nd Bmr Gr, 137th Wing bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2 TAF/83 Grp, 124th Wing bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2 TAF/83 Grp, 125th Wing bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies IX TAC (1st A), 422 Nftr bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies XIX TAC (3rd A), 406 Ftr Grp bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 98th Bmr Wing, 323/387 Bmr Grp bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 1st Bmr D, Combat Wing 41 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2nd Bmr D, Combat Wing 20 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 3rd Bmr D, Ftr Wing 66 bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2 TAF/2nd Bmr Gr, 137th Wing bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies 2 TAF/83 Grp, 125th Wing bombards the target.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Germans Fliegerdivision , KG 66 evaporates.
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Allies approximate equipment and personnel losses - 1%
Autumn Fog 1944 sitrep_log017.txt:Germans approximate equipment and personnel losses - 100%

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/17/2013 12:02:21 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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Yes, turns 17 and 19 are daylight turns.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe? - 2/17/2013 12:03:54 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

(garrison mode rear-area AA is another nit for another post).

I'm interested, because I put them in garrison to keep the PO from moving them around. But if Garrison Mode creates problems, we can figure out something else.

Edit: Ok, I posted this before I saw the other thread, I'll answer over there.

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 2/17/2013 12:07:26 AM >

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> The War Room >> Autumn Fog 44 as Axis -- how do you use the Luftwaffe?

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