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not getting any hits - 2/25/2013 7:39:43 PM   
towers58

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/25/2013
Status: offline 		I am flying my P-38Gs (load of 3200 ibs.) on airfield attacks and I am not getting any hits. My pilots are experienced and skilled, the base being targeted is well-detected. The planes are flying, just not causing any damage. I have tried changing the altitude (any and all from 1,000 to 9,000.) Medium bombers are okay, as are the heavies, but FB's result in the goose egg.
Post #: 1
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 12:57:03 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		What's the range?

(in reply to towers58)
Post #: 2
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 2:42:19 PM   
towers58

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/25/2013
Status: offline 		As close as 4 hexes and as far as 8 (flying with drop tanks).

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 3
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 3:00:11 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Could it be that the drop tanks are mounted where the bombs would normally go? If so, that could explain you've had no results from your 'bomb' runs.

(in reply to towers58)
Post #: 4
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 3:09:18 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		My two cents, the P-38 is too valuable as a fighter, and too limited in numbers, to try to use as a bomber.

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Post #: 5
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 3:29:32 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: towers58

I am flying my P-38Gs (load of 3200 ibs.) on airfield attacks and I am not getting any hits. My pilots are experienced and skilled, the base being targeted is well-detected. The planes are flying, just not causing any damage. I have tried changing the altitude (any and all from 1,000 to 9,000.) Medium bombers are okay, as are the heavies, but FB's result in the goose egg.


Screenshot of your pilots would be helpful. Also, screenshot of your squadron (with orders set as you would for airfield attacks) would be helpful too.

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Post #: 6
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 5:28:51 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Don't pure fighter types (F) need to be at 100 ft. altitude (strafing) to make an attack on an airfield or a ship or a ground unit, regardless of whether or not they carry bombs?

It's my understanding that a fighter bomber type (FB) can bomb from varying altuitudes, but a fighter can only attack non air targets from an altitude of 100 ft.

Can anyone correct me, or do I have it right?


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Hans


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Post #: 7
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 6:45:17 PM   
DaveConn

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 5/3/2001
From: Bainbridge Island, Washington
Status: offline 		Pretty sure this is not correct; I am almost positive I have conducted ground attack missions with P-40Ks from several thousand feet.

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Post #: 8
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 7:02:56 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

My two cents, the P-38 is too valuable as a fighter, and too limited in numbers, to try to use as a bomber.


+1

Stop using them as bombers!

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 9
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 9:11:59 PM   
Paladin1dcs


Posts: 195
Joined: 7/7/2011
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

My two cents, the P-38 is too valuable as a fighter, and too limited in numbers, to try to use as a bomber.


+1

Stop using them as bombers!


I've seen some JFBs complaining about Allied 4E bombers being more lethal than the Allied fighters, so why not use the fighters as bombers?

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 10
RE: not getting any hits - 2/26/2013 10:36:17 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveConn

Pretty sure this is not correct; I am almost positive I have conducted ground attack missions with P-40Ks from several thousand feet.



Are you sure they are bombing from the altitude you set or cruising to the target at that altitude and dropping to 100 feet to strafe when they reach the target just as torpedo bombers fly to the target at whatever altitude you set and then drop to torpedo delivery height when they reach the target?


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(in reply to DaveConn)
Post #: 11
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 12:01:53 AM   
DaveConn

 

Posts: 254
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From: Bainbridge Island, Washington
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveConn

Pretty sure this is not correct; I am almost positive I have conducted ground attack missions with P-40Ks from several thousand feet.




Are you sure they are bombing from the altitude you set or cruising to the target at that altitude and dropping to 100 feet to strafe when they reach the target just as torpedo bombers fly to the target at whatever altitude you set and then drop to torpedo delivery height when they reach the target?


The combat report showed them as bombing from higher altitude; see the example below.

Afternoon Air attack on Sasebo 5th SNLF, at 68,105 (Kolaka)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 13
Kittyhawk III x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 12
P-40K Warhawk x 22


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
22 x P-40K Warhawk bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb


(Before anyone asks why on earth I am bombing with P-40s from 10K feet, I was trying to figure out whether the mission altitude affects the attack altitude for fighters; I think it does, but didn't try it enough to settle the issue.)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 12
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 5:38:37 AM   
Capt Hornblower


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/29/2010
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		I don't know about the effects of a combined strike (as in DaveConn's case), but I've had some Hurricanes attacking Japanese ground units in Burma, and they transit at 6000', but the combat report has the attack coming at strafing height of 100'.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 13
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 9:11:16 AM   
Alfred

 

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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Don't pure fighter types (F) need to be at 100 ft. altitude (strafing) to make an attack on an airfield or a ship or a ground unit, regardless of whether or not they carry bombs?

It's my understanding that a fighter bomber type (FB) can bomb from varying altuitudes, but a fighter can only attack non air targets from an altitude of 100 ft.

Can anyone correct me, or do I have it right?



Not quite. You are confusing the mechanics of attacking barges and PT boats. Fighter bombers will attack these ships irrespective of their assigned altitude. Whereas fighters will only attack them if assigned to 100'.

Alfred

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 14
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 11:09:48 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Do not select "Use drop tanks". That will prevent them using bombs.

Pretty logical, I think.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 2/27/2013 11:10:31 AM >

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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 15
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 2:31:20 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Do not select "Use drop tanks". That will prevent them using bombs.

Pretty logical, I think.


Further to Sardaukar's point, read michaelm's posts in this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3202687&mpage=1&key=centerline%2Cweapon�

Alfred

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 16
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 7:46:09 PM   
towers58

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/25/2013
Status: offline 		I was thinking the same way as Moose - by adding the drop tanks I thought I was able to burn extra supply to get the longer range and still carry ordinance. Sardaukar's comment makes sense now, though.

For those complaining about the use of the P-38 in a ground attack role - I seem to be very short-handed in terms of 2E bombers and the Lightning carries almost the same bomb load.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 17
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 7:56:31 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		All you have to do is look at the aircraft display WHEN you have drop tanks selected and it shows what weapons it carries with the drop tanks. Some aircraft do still carry torpedoes, large bombs, etc. when also fitted with drop tanks, but other aircraft don't.

If you look at the display when you have selected no drop tanks then you see the weapons the plane carries when drop tanks are not fitted.

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(in reply to towers58)
Post #: 18
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 9:25:14 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		I learned that when my Wildebeasts would not do a Naval Attack on a TF one hex away. I had left drop tanks selected.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 19
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 9:39:22 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

I learned that when my Wildebeasts would not do a Naval Attack on a TF one hex away. I had left drop tanks selected.


And I thought it was just me.

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The Moose

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 20
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 10:18:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If it's a sin to kill a Mockingbird, it's a mortal sin to use P-38s to bomb.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 21
RE: not getting any hits - 2/27/2013 10:42:58 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If it's a sin to kill a Mockingbird, it's a mortal sin to use P-38s to bomb.


If only we were allowed to arm them with torpedoes... I know it was tested in real life. I actually used to have a little die cast P-38 that had what were clearly two torpedoes under the wings (then again, a lot of die cast toys are inaccurate).

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 22
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 1:13:56 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Don't pure fighter types (F) need to be at 100 ft. altitude (strafing) to make an attack on an airfield or a ship or a ground unit, regardless of whether or not they carry bombs?

It's my understanding that a fighter bomber type (FB) can bomb from varying altuitudes, but a fighter can only attack non air targets from an altitude of 100 ft.

Can anyone correct me, or do I have it right?



Both fighters and FB set to 1,000 and lower always attack at 100 ft. Above, 1,000 they level bomb normally. I use late war fighters to bomb at about 6,000 with good results. Fly them low and they just get shot up.

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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 23
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 1:19:32 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

All you have to do is look at the aircraft display WHEN you have drop tanks selected and it shows what weapons it carries with the drop tanks. Some aircraft do still carry torpedoes, large bombs, etc. when also fitted with drop tanks, but other aircraft don't.

If you look at the display when you have selected no drop tanks then you see the weapons the plane carries when drop tanks are not fitted.


Yeah, but I can't think of any late war fighter that did not carry both tanks and ordinance at the same time. P38 included. And the original post is citing the p38.

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(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 24
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 4:18:56 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

All you have to do is look at the aircraft display WHEN you have drop tanks selected and it shows what weapons it carries with the drop tanks. Some aircraft do still carry torpedoes, large bombs, etc. when also fitted with drop tanks, but other aircraft don't.

If you look at the display when you have selected no drop tanks then you see the weapons the plane carries when drop tanks are not fitted.


Yeah, but I can't think of any late war fighter that did not carry both tanks and ordinance at the same time. P38 included. And the original post is citing the p38.

The point is you don't have to work it out, you just have to look because the game tells you right there.

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Post #: 25
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 2:47:32 PM   
towers58

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/25/2013
Status: offline 		When I got home last night I did do the check. It shows that the P-38G, with drop tanks, still carries 2 x 500 pounders. So my original question holds - why am I not getting any hits? This is not a one-mission failure. I have been running many missions, from several different bases.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 26
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 3:08:03 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		It depends on a lot of things. Just one of them is pilot skills. You could post a screen shot of the pilots in that squadron.

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Post #: 27
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 3:17:38 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
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From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: towers58

When I got home last night I did do the check. It shows that the P-38G, with drop tanks, still carries 2 x 500 pounders. So my original question holds - why am I not getting any hits? This is not a one-mission failure. I have been running many missions, from several different bases.



If you bomb from 6000ft or higher your fighter pilots need grd skill for bombing, if you bomb lower than 6000ft they need lowgrd for bombing. You got fighter pilots with such skill?

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Post #: 28
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 3:19:24 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		And give us the full details of the settings of your squadron. Exp, leadership, settings, range, height, morale, fatigue. One factor could be high fatigue. My understanding is that fatigue is accumulated during a mission not just lumped on the pilots at the end. So, if you are flying P38s at very long range to do a bombing mission then they are already at very high fatigue level when they reach the target. Not to mention that low level attacks by any plane other than attack bombers also adds more fatigue (I think this is the case but who knows if the fatigue is added before or after bombing...) So by the time your pilots are making their bomb runs they are already suffering from very high fatigue. Once again I do not know how the game works exactly but I would think high fatigue would effect bombing accuracy. This could be one of many reasons why you are not hitting.

You might have a problem or not. I suggest you try to run a few simple tests.



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Post #: 29
RE: not getting any hits - 2/28/2013 3:20:57 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: towers58

When I got home last night I did do the check. It shows that the P-38G, with drop tanks, still carries 2 x 500 pounders. So my original question holds - why am I not getting any hits? This is not a one-mission failure. I have been running many missions, from several different bases.



If you bomb from 6000ft or higher your fighter pilots need grd skill for bombing, if you bomb lower than 6000ft they need lowgrd for bombing. You got fighter pilots with such skill?

I don't think those numbers are true anymore, having changed at some point in the Betas. I need to double check before I post any numbers myself.

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