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yea - 2/28/2013 7:32:19 AM   
prototek

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 2/23/2013
Status: offline 		listverse.com/2011/04/04/top-10-worst-aircraft-of-world-war-2/

Found this kind of interesting and funny.

< Message edited by prototek -- 3/8/2013 1:01:55 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 7:49:34 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Kind of hard to come up with such a list. Some of the planes on the list were known to be obsolete at the beginning of the war and were pressed into service because their replacements weren't ready yet. Others were new concept aircraft that had a lot of bugs that were never worked out before the war ended.

Interesting list though. I would agree that everything on the list had serious problems.

Bill

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(in reply to prototek)
Post #: 2
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 9:19:32 AM   
JamesM

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: QLD, Australia
Status: offline 		Interesting list.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 3
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 12:21:36 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		I certainly could have guessed at a number of them being on the list, some others not... but interesting. Thanks. Hal

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Post #: 4
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 2:21:58 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Comments about the Blackburn Botha

quote:

One test pilot noted “that thing is bloody lethal, but not to the Germans, I never want to see it again”. Another famous quote “access to this aircraft is difficult. It should be made impossible” is also frequently attributed

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 5
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 3:19:44 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I disagree with Devastator. I would say that for example Bulton Paul Defiant had a place in that list also in Italians which i know more the SM-85 dive bomber which could not dive...

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 6
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 3:30:06 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Did a TBD ever hit an enemy warship in anger (not counting falling airplane parts)?

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Post #: 7
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 3:39:55 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Did a TBD ever hit an enemy warship in anger (not counting falling airplane parts)?

If kamikazes count then falling parts have to count.

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Post #: 8
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 3:51:18 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		I have trouble with some of the aircraft on the list; mainly on those that were old/ obsolete by WW2 (TBD for example) or non-aircraft (Okha "smart" missile)

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 9
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 3:56:51 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		I do believe that TBDs did hit the Shoho in the opening stages of the Coral Sea. Granted it was after the SBDs had wrecked her.

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Post #: 10
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 3:59:13 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well to be fair, it was probably more the lousy torpedo than the plane. The TBD was designed in 35 and went into service in 37. At the time it was probably the most advanced plane of it's type. But war brings about change a lot faster than peace. What was excellent in 37 was often obsolete in 41.



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Post #: 11
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 2/28/2013 4:03:32 PM   
Gilbert


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/8/2009
From: Hendaye, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

I do believe that TBDs did hit the Shoho in the opening stages of the Coral Sea. Granted it was after the SBDs had wrecked her.


TBD torpedoes dit hit SHOHO. The following is an excerpt of a forthcoming TROM's revision:

"At 0855, SHOHO is attacked by the US airstrike. Turning hard to port, the carrier dodges the first three bombs. The next three attacking SBDs are engaged by 2 A5M4 and abort their attack. One SBD is shot down. At 0917, 3 A6M2 take off and head to the next US attacking planes: 15 VB-2 SBDs. One 1,000-lb bomb hit the carrier just in front of the aft elevator. A second bomb hits SHOHO near the same location. Next to attack are VT-2 TBDs: a torpedo hits the carrier’s stern at starboard destroying the steering gear; a second one hits amidships port side; then a third one, near the bow. In quick succession SHOHO is hit by another two torpedoes. She goes dead in the water and is devastated by several fires. US aircraft losses account for one “Dauntless” from YORKTOWN and two from LEXINGTON. SHOHO’s six CAP fighters lose three aircraft including 1 A6M2, the other three make ditch landings off Deboyne Island’s seaplane base. In total, the light carrier is overwhelmed, and struck by a reported total of seven torpedoes and thirteen bombs in the space of twenty-three minutes...

Gilbert

Edit: spelling !

< Message edited by Gilbert -- 2/28/2013 4:04:50 PM >

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(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 12
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 1:23:04 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		The list is far from accurate, there were a lot of aircraft worse than these, maybe less publicity about them (No Amiot's made the list, the 410 was a failure but amongst the 10 worst??, Wirraway as a combat aircraft, YB40 & YB41????)

We need a poll, or get Warspite1 to run one.

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Post #: 13
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 2:46:51 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		The TBD attack on the Shoho was considered to be one of the best "in combat" examples of the classic torpedo squadron anvil attack tactics. They performed quite well that time - even if she was already damaged.

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fair winds,
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Post #: 14
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 4:00:14 AM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		What about the F5F Chickenhawk, built to replace the F4F in 1943?

F5F-




Attachment (1)

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You understand now, Why you came this way

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Post #: 15
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 4:47:29 AM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		I always wondered what the nickname was for the F5F!

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 16
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 5:38:00 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

What about the F5F Chickenhawk, built to replace the F4F in 1943?

F5F-




Or the SBRD (Silent But Really Deadly) dive bomber?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 7:33:54 AM   
prototek

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 2/23/2013
Status: offline 		I never knew about this late-war Japanese aircraft....scroll down to the "KAKAKA "SHIRLEY" AMPHIBIOUS PEDAL-BOMBER" in the link

http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Major%20Howdy%20Bixby.htm

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 18
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 6:22:56 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		If Devastator was obsolete what to say about Swordfish? Besides we should not forget that WW2 started in 1939 not in late 1941...

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Post #: 19
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/1/2013 6:53:27 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Swordfish was also obsolete... but it had a working torpedo


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 20
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/2/2013 12:19:26 AM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well to be fair, it was probably more the lousy torpedo than the plane. The TBD was designed in 35 and went into service in 37. At the time it was probably the most advanced plane of it's type. But war brings about change a lot faster than peace. What was excellent in 37 was often obsolete in 41.


Case in point, the A6M - after that, the Zero lived off it's reputation.

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Post #: 21
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/2/2013 1:36:27 AM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

What about the F5F Chickenhawk, built to replace the F4F in 1943?

F5F-



There really was an F5F, the Skyrocket, a twin engined carrier fighter that never went into production. The prototype was used in developing the F7F Tigercat.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 22
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/2/2013 4:35:30 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Swordfish was also obsolete... but it had a working torpedo

quote:

Dili

If Devastator was obsolete what to say about Swordfish?

warspite1

....and was successful against the Bismarck, Richelieu, Dunkerque and of course at Taranto. No matter how obsolete an aircraft was, you can't put it in a "worst aircraft of WWII" if it achieved such success.

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Post #: 23
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/2/2013 5:34:54 AM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline 		Just knew the Komet had to be in there! HAHAHA

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Post #: 24
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/2/2013 7:03:02 AM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

What about the F5F Chickenhawk, built to replace the F4F in 1943?

F5F-





As long as you have the altitude bonus and your fighter pilots have skill ratings in the 70s this air frame will do just swell on anything short of a 4E bomber...



< Message edited by 1EyedJacks -- 3/2/2013 7:04:07 AM >

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TTFN,

Mike

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Post #: 25
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/2/2013 2:43:51 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I did not know about the TBD hits on the Shoho. Interesting.

What is the difference between the attack on Shoho and Midway?

1) There were only 6 fighters on CAP.

2) AA fire was much weaker

3) The SBD's attacked first, Shoho was already hurt and the ship formation disorganized.


The TBD was not un-airworthy, but it was obsolete. It doesn't really deserve to be on the list. I blame the US Navy...or maybe the Congress.

(in reply to prototek)
Post #: 26
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/3/2013 5:50:06 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		The TBD was still in service merely because its replacement wasn't ready yet. The war started too early. In 1938 the USN issued a specification for a new dive bomber, fighter and torpedo bomber. In the end the only one that was ready on schedule was the TBF which first saw combat at Midway. The F4U had a lot of problems passing carrier quals and the SB2C ended up with a lot of stability problems due to the requirement that two of the new dive bombers had to fit on a carrier elevator. The resulting plane was too short.

The TBD was the world's first carrier monoplane. It was very advanced for the time, but it was past its pill date by 1941 and the Navy knew it. There just was nothing they could do about it.

Bill

_____________________________

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(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 27
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/3/2013 5:46:37 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Torpedo release speed 115 max

Glide bomb speed 200 mph

Lousy range.


I realize aircraft development was advancing quickly but that means you have to accelerate the product cycle or make some other adaptation (all SBD's for example). It may well be true the Navy could not do much between Dec 41 and June 42 but that just means there was a management failure beforehand. Seems to me they could have stolen SBD's dedicated to the Marine Corps..

Many crews were lost at Midway because of decisions made before the war. Imagine if there were a more capable torepdo bomber at Midway. All 4 IJN carriers might ahve been sunk right off the bat?

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 28
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/3/2013 6:05:47 PM   
panzer cat

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/2/2011
From: occupied Virginia
Status: offline 		You go to war with what you have, not what you want.

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Post #: 29
RE: 10 Worst aircraft of WWII - 3/3/2013 6:14:06 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Torpedo release speed 115 max

Glide bomb speed 200 mph

Lousy range.


I realize aircraft development was advancing quickly but that means you have to accelerate the product cycle or make some other adaptation (all SBD's for example). It may well be true the Navy could not do much between Dec 41 and June 42 but that just means there was a management failure beforehand. Seems to me they could have stolen SBD's dedicated to the Marine Corps..

Many crews were lost at Midway because of decisions made before the war. Imagine if there were a more capable torepdo bomber at Midway. All 4 IJN carriers might ahve been sunk right off the bat?
warspite1

Ditto the FAA - imagine what the RN could have done with a proper aircraft....


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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