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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/1/2013 1:52:48 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		4/28/42
 
China:  Two IJA divisions are moving to reinforce the Changsha front.  I think I can hold against these, but if John slides past Changsha to work further south along the railroad, I'm going to be stretched pretty tight.  My own reinforcements are coming, but it's gonna be awhile.

Burma:  Two or three more days until the first Allied unit moves into the key line of jungle hexes.  Lots more to follow, though it's going to be several weeks before the line is secure.  On the other hand, no sign of enemy opposition in the near future.

Luzon:  Two IJA divisions are at Clark Field.  At least one of them engaged in poor-odds deliberate attack resulting in light casualties, with Japan getting the worst of it.  The Allies are out of supply but will hold into May.

DEI:  Manado still serving as a listening post.  A small Dutch unit still holds Christmas Island (IO) with some supply.  I can use that for patrols coinciding with the Cocos invasion if the status quo doesn't change.  Subs from Ceylon are feeding this garrison a bit of supply.

Oz:  Nothing major seems to be happening.

Pacific:  An IJ TF of unknown composition NW of Luganville.  Long queue of reinforcement TFs strung out between NZ and Tahiti.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 811
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/1/2013 4:42:01 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

4/27/42
 
I do think John is in for a tough go of it, but I'm not ready to declare victory for three reasons:  (1) I could make a costly mistake as I'm planning to be modestly aggressive; (2) China is still a bit of an unknown, even though I'm cautiously optimistic; and (3) as I understand Reluctant Admiral it gives Japan alot more navy power later in the game, which could make things more difficult than ordinary.




You are too modest my friend..

As for number 1, well we all have been down that road. Number 2. It is not fun losing China but I now understand from my own experience that losing China really has very little impact on the overall course of the war. This was probably historically true as well. Most important for the Allied player is to preserve a good cadre of Chinese units that can be rebuilt-in India if necessary. And as for 3. I don't think the added Japanese forces are significant enough to make much of a difference compared to the Allied force strength come late 44. One thing I have discovered is that the newer Allied ship types combined with superior radar and very good crew quality, just wipe up the Japanese in surface actions after 1944. I have had a few draws but can't remember losing one in a long time. Surface fighting in game is way out of whack compared to the real thing-and this really works in the Allied players favor come late war.

So you have survived early 42 without a disaster, still own your carriers and John has really not done enough. You may not win but I would not mind being in your shoes..


_____________________________

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 812
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/1/2013 8:16:58 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Poultry Lad wrote a particularly eloquent description of how he loves the game (in a recent post in reply to somebody who was thinking about buying the game).  The Chicken Dude was right about how the game can occupy our idle time as we plan, etc. 

Over the past two days, I have spent way too much time thinking about how to best implement the sequence of invasions covering Cocos, Milne, Ndeni and the Gilberts.  Bottom line is that I can't think of any reasonable way to make a feint without risking carriers.  More importantly, none of the objectives is worth risking my carriers.  So, I'm left with this conclusion:  A condition precedent to all but one of the possible invasions is the appearance of a significant number of enemy carriers somewhere else.  Given John's aggressiveness, this is likely to happen, so all hope is not lost.

The one invasion I might proceed with is that of Ndeni and surroundings.  John doesn't have any decent airfields close by, I have good patrols from Luganville, and I can probably get this done quickly and with acceptable risk.

So here's hoping John shows his hand sooner rather than later.

And what's with India?  I was certain that John would probe/raid forward once he took Port Blair, but thus far he's been as quiet as a church mouse.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 813
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/2/2013 2:25:11 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		4/29/42
 
China:  Monitoring the movement of several IJ divisions to see whether the next push comes at Changsha or through the gap in the lines between Hengyang and Kweilin.  No IJA push out of Nanning, yet, which surprises me.

Burma:  An Indian brigade will reach the key jungle hex border tomorrow, the first of what I hope will be a steady stream of units that will create a stout line seriously threatening Japan's position in Upper Burma.  Imphal airfield just went to level four.

India:  7th Oz Div. is 100% prepped for Cocos Island.  I'm not ready to move yet, but I am moving the carriers forward from Socatra to Bombay to refuel.  At Capetown, the Marine raiders are 95% prepped for Cocos.  Transports are in place at both ports to handle the troops, plus some other units.

Australia:  Quiet.  Perth airfield goes to level six.

Pacific:  Several IJ combat TFs suddenly show up "on the grid."  There's the one already sighted NW of Luganville.  The other two are near Christmas Island and between Samoa and Fiji.  I think these are raiders.  If so, the pickings are nil for them at their current positions.  The more interesting question is whether John has shifted his carriers into these waters.  I hope so.  The long string of reinforcement TFs heading to Oz are well east or south of the enemy and in no danger in the short term.

West Coast:  San Fran, LA and San Diego don't have a single unrestricted unit.  This is an indication that the Allies are thinking ahead and moving troops forward efficiently.  I recall early games when I'd have dozens of units stacked up waiting for me to figure out where to send them.  Now I wish I had three score engineer units at LA, because I could put all of them to good use immediately.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 814
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/2/2013 4:10:37 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Perth airfield goes to level six.


What is the Fort level?? I lost it too quickly due to not focusing enough on fort building. Mine was between 4 and 5 when attacked vs at 6.

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Post #: 815
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/2/2013 7:40:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Fort level is at three.  I stopped it there to focus on the airfield, which is increasing faster than the fort level.  This was a better use of my engineers for two reasons:  (1) I have the aircraft and base force personnel to make good use of the field, and (2) sometimes the best defense is the "appearance" that a base is built up.  If a player scans a base and notes the airfield has been built large, he's going to reconsider any plans he might have to invade in the area.  John can still take the Perth area since all I have is one USA division plus a few Aussie brigades, which is why I want to give the appearance of strength.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 816
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/3/2013 4:06:18 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		4/30/42
 
China:  It seems that the IJ reinforcements are going to shoot the gap into the interior.  I can't stop them, but I can slow them down and they don't have a real supply line.  I'm interested in seeing how this turns out, because it will better help me understand how supply or lack of supply affects remote operations.  John's pushed a bulge into my MLR, but the MLR remains intact.

Burma:  An Indian brigade with low experience is the first to arrive in the line of jungle hexes bordering the open terrain of Upper Burma.  I'll need lots more to secure this line, but I don't think John will be aware there was a race going on until it's over.  Two UK brigades, another Indian brigade, and 9th Aussie Division are coming.  Most importantly, the airfields are being built so that Japan won't be unopposed.

Australia:  A stack of units is two hexes north of Geraldton.  I'm interested in seeing whether this is the real thing or a feint.  The Allies have 400 AV at the base, three forts, and lots of air power.  The only way this can be the real thing is if John comes by sea too.  He might.

Pacific:  The two IJN TFs near Luganville and Fiji disappeared from the grid.  The third is sitting atop Christmas Island.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 817
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 1:13:58 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/1/42

Japanese Armor: Alot of the Japanese tank regiments are chasing Australians between Tennant Creek and Alice Springs. That is an excellent place for them from my perspective.

China: The IJ situation in China would pose a bigger threat if the armor was available to exploit. The situation remains fluid, but the Chinese remain optimistic.

Burma/India: An IJ combat TF is north (true) of Cocos Island. This is at least the fourth raiding TF sighted in the last three days. Don't yet which ones have "oomph" and "intent" behind them, but I don't think this one does.

Oz: The aircraft reinforcement convoy from Hawaii is three days out of Melbourne. The IJ force two hexes north of Geraldton isn't strong enough on its own to pose a threat. Either more has to follow or this has to be the opening of a big amphibious move.

Pacific: The IJN raiding TF that visited Christmas yesterday moved off to the NW.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 818
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 10:35:15 AM   
Houtje

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		CR, could you explain why the two hexes directly beneath Kalemyo (on the map, that is) are 'key hexes'? Is occupying them enough to break the IJ rail line or are you just marching through them to get to the hexes with actual rail lines in them?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 819
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 3:05:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/2/42
 
China:  At Changsha, John now has 1500 AV and I have 1000 AV.  That should encourage John to attack.

Burma:  Houtje, the Allies want to occupy two to four of the jungle hexes that border on the clear terrain.  Doing so means Japan loses out on the good defensive terrain (I don't have to fight that later on).  It forces the Japanese to establish an MLR in open hexes.  That, in turn, gives my airforce a much better shot at Japanese units.  For a good example of why this terrain is so important to the Allies, take a look at the Q-Ball vs. GreyJoy AAR where GJ (the Japanese player) penetrated into the jungle to establish an MLR.  By doing so, he basically bottled up the Allies for more than a year.  I don't want to be bottled up in the jungle.  I want to go on the offensive.

India:  IJN combat TF due north of Diego.

Oz:  SigInt that 1st Raiding Regiment is bound for Port Headland.  This has the markings of "the real thing" and suggest an IJ move on the Perth theater.  I'm still not positive this isn't a feint with Japan actually moving on Townsville, but more than likely John's going to move on Perth.  So, I've switched some big infantry units to "strat mode."  A few of them will remain on the east coast, but some will move midway (Port Augusta).

Pacific:  Quiet except for the large number of Allied transport TFs moving about.

(in reply to Houtje)
Post #: 820
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 3:32:58 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The campaign in Burma has not bee quiet, despite all apperances. It's actually very complex - and I'm hoping John doesn't realize that. Here's how its unfolding:

1. In early '42, the Allies retired in Burma without giving much of a fight. John was delighted to take the area without committing much.

2. The Allied retreat accomplished two things: (a) added weight to the appearance that the Allies were building NE India strong (thus discouraging John from invading) and (b) since Burma seemed to be a backwater, John didn't feel the need to devote troops there.

3. The Allies then began backfilling, first to Kolemyo and now towards the line of jungle hexes (see below) so that they will be in a position to attack into the clear terrain sooner rather than later and to give the Allied airforce a good shot at enemy troops in clear terrain. The move into the jungle hexes is ongoing and will take weeks, but I don't think John is aware of what's going on.

4. Eventually John's going to want to move on Myitkyina, but when he does so he's going to notice all those jungle hexes have Allied troops. I"m not sure he'll feel comfortable moving on Myitkyina while a fairly large enemy army is right on his flank. So it's possible the Allies will be able to hold onto this key base.

When I first began retreating in Burma, my main objective was to attend to NE India. It wasn't until about March that I began to really see how the big picture might come together.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 821
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 4:25:04 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The campaign in Burma has not bee quiet, despite all apperances. It's actually very complex - and I'm hoping John doesn't realize that. Here's how its unfolding:

1. In early '42, the Allies retired in Burma without giving much of a fight. John was delighted to take the area without committing much.

2. The Allied retreat accomplished two things: (a) added weight to the appearance that the Allies were building NE India strong (thus discouraging John from invading) and (b) since Burma seemed to be a backwater, John didn't feel the need to devote troops there.

3. The Allies then began backfilling, first to Kolemyo and now towards the line of jungle hexes (see below) so that they will be in a position to attack into the clear terrain sooner rather than later and to give the Allied airforce a good shot at enemy troops in clear terrain. The move into the jungle hexes is ongoing and will take weeks, but I don't think John is aware of what's going on.

4. Eventually John's going to want to move on Myitkyina, but when he does so he's going to notice all those jungle hexes have Allied troops. I"m not sure he'll feel comfortable moving on Myitkyina while a fairly large enemy army is right on his flank. So it's possible the Allies will be able to hold onto this key base.

When I first began retreating in Burma, my main objective was to attend to NE India. It wasn't until about March that I began to really see how the big picture might come together.






Cannot Agree more CR. Those hexes south of Kalemyo are the Key to Central Burma. Once you control them, you force the Jap player to a very unconfortable position cause if you get strong enough you can easily break south in very direction and get to the plains...which means the end of the Japanese efforts in northern Burma.

As long as you keep a those positions, you have a knife right at Japs' jugular in Burma.

In my game versus Brad i managed to get there in force very early and estabilish a strong perimeter in the jungle...which has frustrated Brad's efforts for 18 months now

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 822
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 4:48:40 PM   
Houtje

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Very clear, CR, thanks. Seems sloppy of John to allow this situation to develop, given his interest in China in this game.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 823
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 6:47:44 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/3/42 and 5/4/42
 
China:  John has assembled enough troops in the Changsha and vicinity region that he can give the Chinese a hard time.  Right now the "bulge" is still contained, but things are a bit more iffy.  Just as a bit of encouragement, I compared where the Japanese are in this game compared to where there were at the same date in the GJ vs. Q-Ball game.  In that game, by this point the Japanese already had Changsha and Chengte and were pushing hard towards Chunking.  In fact, Changsha fell much earlier than that - March or before.  So I'm doing okay.

Burma:  An IJ unit on the road west of Schwebo has "spotted" my Indian brigade in the jungle hex.  I was hoping this would remain incognito longer.  But I think the Allies will definately be able to seize at least three of the hexes and perhaps as many as five.  Some of the troops involveed are two UK brigades (experience 80) and 9th Aussie Division.  Once those three units occupy a hex Japan probably won't have a prayer of dislodging them.

India:  IJN combat TF still loitering near Diego.  I think John is feeling out patrol coverage (here and with the other raids in the Pacific). 

Australia:  The more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems that John will move on the Perth region.  He won't have any airbases at first (excepting carrier coverage) while the Allies have Kalgoorlie (3), Perth (6) and  Geraldton (2) plus a number of level one bass.  Also, with roughly two divisions in the area plus plenty of aircraft, the Allies are present in strength.  John would probably need four divisions just to make me sweat.  I just can't see him grabbing hold of a potential tar baby.  I think it more likely that he'll try something in the Townsville/Cairns area.  Three fighter squadrons arrived at Melbourne, fresh from Hawaii.  The Allies now have 280 fighters to cover the carriers.

Pacific:  Quiet.  9th Marines is aboard transports just a few days east of New Zealand.  Originally I wanted to plant this unit at Noumea, but with IJN raiders recently in the area, I'm more likely to divert to Oz.

Overall Assessment:  I have some concerns here and there, but at the moment I'm very pleased with the Allied position.  The foundation built thus far appears strong.

(in reply to Houtje)
Post #: 824
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 7:32:02 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Houtje

Very clear, CR, thanks. Seems sloppy of John to allow this situation to develop, given his interest in China in this game.


Just to say the 4E home rule in this game ties CR's hands behind his back. Occupy those hexes and turn 4E's loose on units in open terrian and Burma becomes undefendable. Crossing into the Irrwaddy valley simply becomes a matter of not "if" but when and how many IJ forces will be lost in open terrain. On the other hand John is making the best of IJA 2E's to disrupt the Chineese

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Houtje)
Post #: 825
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 7:33:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's a bit unfair, but since I agreed to it I'm going to live by it...and eventually repay John with interest.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 826
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 7:36:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Somehow ended up with a duplicate post, so I've edited this one to eliminate the duplication. Later, I'll edit this to insert an actual report of something exciting happening. In the meantime, please enjoy my loquaciousness.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/4/2013 7:37:19 PM >

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 827
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 7:47:14 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		10-4 CR. I am disregarding your last post.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 828
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2013 9:03:17 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

10-4 CR. I am disregarding your last post.

Not me. I'm disregarding your post. Oh wait...

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Post #: 829
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 1:18:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/5/42 and 5/6/42
 
China:  Changsha fell.  This is truly a sea change, for my entire MLR hinged on this key base.  I knew my garrison was a bit tuckered (a recent bombing attack left my biggest unit 77% disrupted, though other units were at 0%), but I didn't think a collapse was imminent.  Since everything hinged on Changsha, the fall leaves all kinds of units out of position with poor lines of retreat.  IE, this is a mess!  Nearly my entire MLR is untenable, including Chengte and Kweilin.  I'll watch to see which way or ways John moves, try to slow him down, try to extricate as many of my "hey, I'm stuck out here" units as possible, and continue to configure a secondary line.  There's much fighting left to do, but make no mistake this was bad news.  (I also think it's the first time I've lost Changsha in any WitP or AE game, so kudos to John.)

Burma:  IJ bombers visited the vanguard Indian brigade established on the line of key jungle hexes.  I wish I'd had a few more weeks to surreptiously establish this line, but okay.  It's possible that John will see the danger here and begin feeding in more troops, which may take some heat off elsewhere.  Bottom line, though, is that he's probably too late to sieze the main hexes I'm shooting for.

India: The Allied position in India is almost beyond worrying about now.  Pretty soon, I can begin "buying" Indian divisions and feeding them forward into the Upper Burma jungles.  (The Allies still have a very thorough "defense in depth" from Chittagong through to Calcutta to Viz and all the interior bases to keep open the LOC to Bombay and Karachi.)  The Allies have accumulated 1,800 political poitns towards the effort of buying restricted units.  Before I spend PP wholesale, though, I want to see how supply works for my units in the Burmese jungles.  India is flush with supply, so I'm hoping the trickle effect will work.  If it does, the Allies go all out in Burma.  If it doesn't, then it'll be more of an attritional war.

Australia:  The little IJ army (400 or 600 AV?) is a hex from Geraldton.  This army lacks armor, which is a fatal flaw, though I realize it may be acting merely as a feint while an amphibious assault targets Esperance or Albany or the like.  But I just can't see it.  The Allies have grown stout in Oz.  I think it would take a six-division offensive to make me perspire.  And even then I'd be gambling with house money, because the Perth theater is important, but not vital.

Pacific:  Lots of IJ activity around the Santa Cruz islands.  Two Marine regiments arrived, one at SD and one at East Coast.  Since 8th Marines is at Akutan Island in the Aleutians, 2nd Marines just in at SD is likely to prep for an Aluetians target.  5th Marines at East Coast will prep for Tarawa and move down to San Diego.  7th Marines at Seattle is nearly 100% prepped for Adak.  I'll have to make a call:  do I really foresee a move on the Aluetians before winter?  If not, I need to move 7th down to SD and have her prep for Tarawa.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 830
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 1:29:38 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		RE Burma, note the calendar and the monsoon rules. Was just reading an old thread on this yesterday. It's near the top of the stack somewhere on the forum. Pretty stiff penalties, but for both sides, especially in the north.

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The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 831
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 1:45:51 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'll hunt around and find the rules, which I know next to nothing about.  At the moment, though, all my units in the India/Burma jungle hexes are flush with supply.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 832
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 2:09:42 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

  Just as a bit of encouragement, I compared where the Japanese are in this game compared to where there were at the same date in the GJ vs. Q-Ball game.  In that game, by this point the Japanese already had Changsha and Chengte and were pushing hard towards Chunking.  In fact, Changsha fell much earlier than that - March or before.  So I'm doing okay.



Yes, thanks for the reminder!

Greyjoy did a good job against me with that Tank assualt, and I was tardy in retreating, which I paid for

I also think something changed in China from older WITP-AE versions; China used to NEVER get rolled, and now it's a real opportunity spot for Japan. Not sure what the change was, but China is definitely weaker.

PS: As Moose says.....note that the Monsoon just started a few days ago, May 1.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 3/5/2013 2:10:49 PM >

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Post #: 833
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 2:13:31 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		May 1 or April 15?

From Blackhorse:
"Actually, the initial notes on the monsoon season was off. Its confirmed by Andy not being Jan-April, but from 15th of May to the 15th of Oct.

Monsoon affects base supply in Burma region. It does not affect weather in the game.

The main bases affected are the north Burmese ones north of Mandalay and the Assam bases east of Terapo plus Akyab and Chittagong. [And all of Thailand]

The way the new restriction works is that the amount of supply a base can receive per day is X x (Port+AF+Fort) so a base that is a trail base with no main road or rail connection may have a value of 50 say it starts as port 0, af 0, fort 3 then that means the base can receive 50 x 3 or 150 tonnes of supply per day over the jungle trails.

During the monsoon season all bases are reduced to 50% of normal capacity therefore the base will only receive 75 tons per day by land.

Thus the little un-built up bases cannot sustain huge forces

"

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 3/5/2013 2:30:52 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 834
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 2:14:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Q-Ball, I hope you don't mind me seeking encouragement where I can find it!  Your game vs. GJ and my game vs. PzH were the only two that I've really kept up with about China.  Well, that and Bullwinkle's game, but you have to toss out all notions of normalcy with regard to China in that one.

China can be defended pretty well, IMO, but the ability of Japan to fight a one-sided air war is a pretty much a game breaker here.  I am confident I could hold China against nearly anybody, but the air war unhinges things.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 835
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 2:54:47 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I also think something changed in China from older WITP-AE versions; China used to NEVER get rolled, and now it's a real opportunity spot for Japan. Not sure what the change was, but China is definitely weaker.


I'm not sure that is true. As a Professional Forum Lurker I recall a bunch of games where Japan did very well in China. In fact I believe China getting rolled was the catalyst that got the way artillery behaves changed (to be less powerful). It seems more likely to me that the answer is "if a reasonable IJ player wants China and invests in it, it is do-able". Of course the resources and time devoted have implications on other theatres...

I think CR got a little over confident in Changsha - he kept seeing failed attacks and assumed IJ was breaking itsself against his walls. Only seeing it from CR's perspective it is a bit surprising. The IJ's approach seemed to lack a concentration of force and instead an attempt expected to use maneuver to force the issue. That seems like a fine tactic, but his maneuver didn't seem fully realized yet.

This is an easy arm chair general thing to say of course. Changsha is kind of a tricky spot on the map. (In fact it's probably one of the trickiest spots ont he map...)

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 836
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 3:28:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		As I said before I think China is almost impossible against a determined Japanese attack. At least against an opponent that know what he is doing. At least in most Allied AARs I read China is gone are about to be.

1. Supply is too low for the Chinese. It might be enough to sustain the Chinese but not enough to let them recover. So once things start going downhill the do so FAST.
2. IJAAF. There is simply no way to defend against the massed bombers. Almost all Chinese bases will be in red supply after only a few weeks so no combat missions (CAP/LRCAP) can be flown.
3. Armor. There is no defense against this for the Chinese. Even when getting 4:1 or better against armored units the Chinese suffer massive casualties while the Japanese tanks suffer almost none.

All this is my own opinion based on loosing China in one game and about to loose it again in my second! I hope I´m proven right in the future. That way I can always blame the game and not my own bad play!


(in reply to Lomri)
Post #: 837
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 3:40:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/7/42
 
China:  Too early to tell which way John will go from Changsha.  Too soon for any of my units to make headway.  I'm going to have trouble with alot of units getting cut off and pummeled, so the next month is going to be painful in China.

Burma:  SigInt reports 4th Division (the conquerors of Cocos Island and later part of the Java campaign) is bound for Burma.  This is essentially ironclad proof that John isn't making a big move on India.  While Ceylon isn't safe by any means, I will continue to move Indian units forward towards the front lines, reinforcing the Cox's Bazaar and Kalemyo sectors.

India:  I'm awaiting an Oz engineer unit (100% prepped Cocos) to arrive at Bombay from Cochin.  When it does so, I may go ahead and load the invasion force.  I want to have this group at sea in case an opportunity presents itself in the next few weeks.  If it doesn't, the troops will likely move to Oz to join other Cocos-prepped troops (to make the Cocos operation logistically easier should I ever pull the trigger).

Oz:  The little IJA stack is one hex outside Geraldton.  I'm waiting to see what happens next.  Esperance airfield goes to level two, giving the Allies four "real" bases to work with in theater.  Lots of fuel is arriving at Melbourne .  Quite a few American base forces to arrive incoming weeks.

Pacific:  Yikes!  Enemy patrol planes near Auckland!  I'm not sure yet whether it/they come from subs or carriers.  I have a small combat TF and two nice tankers there.  Some of these ships to flee and a few to remain in place.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 838
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 4:15:41 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

India is flush with supply, so I'm hoping the trickle effect will work. If it does, the Allies go all out in Burma. If it doesn't, then it'll be more of an attritional war.


I can tell you that once the forward bases are built up -- supply will flow to the Irrawaddy Valley. N=2 PBEM games. Much to the strong objection of the IJ "This game is sooo borked -- its impossible!!!" I have supported 2 US Army divisions, the AUS I Corps and 5 Commonwealth division equalvalents invading Burma in 1942. You will have to use 4E's to supress air fields and you will be unable to smack units in the open .. and because of that you will need more 2E's proficent in ground attack than I have needed .. but believe me it can be done .. the HQ bonuses is really gravy in this theater ... and once the Irrawaddy Valley falls in 1942 ... it is game over in 1944 ...See my AAR Newbie vs. WiTP and a couple of posting showing my Burma campaign in my second game ... Allied Armor in the Irrawaddy valley produces the same results as IJ armor in China

I might add that training low nav pilots is critical also to a Burma campaign... For example, the IJN will be visting Moulumein once you take this base and this base is key for any adventures into Thailand ... .. Low Nav attacks using B25's out to a full 11 hexes will be very discouraging to the IJN parking just to maximum range to bombard at night .. The rest of DB's/TB's have too short of range and the IJ can get in and out before an attack ...the really beautiful thing is if a BB is hurt but not crippled to produce an escort TF .. This will slow the bombardment TF to stall in range of the other shorter ranged LB/DB's/TBs' ...then the IJ will be most reluctant to keep bombarding .... Docup showed me that P39's carry bombs and can be effective at low nav attacks too ...

It will be interesting if you decide to committ to a full Burma Campaign ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 839
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2013 4:40:06 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

May 1 or April 15?

From Blackhorse:
"Actually, the initial notes on the monsoon season was off. Its confirmed by Andy not being Jan-April, but from 15th of May to the 15th of Oct.

Monsoon affects base supply in Burma region. It does not affect weather in the game.

The main bases affected are the north Burmese ones north of Mandalay and the Assam bases east of Terapo plus Akyab and Chittagong. [And all of Thailand]

The way the new restriction works is that the amount of supply a base can receive per day is X x (Port+AF+Fort) so a base that is a trail base with no main road or rail connection may have a value of 50 say it starts as port 0, af 0, fort 3 then that means the base can receive 50 x 3 or 150 tonnes of supply per day over the jungle trails.

During the monsoon season all bases are reduced to 50% of normal capacity therefore the base will only receive 75 tons per day by land.

Thus the little un-built up bases cannot sustain huge forces

"


That's the thread. Thanks.

Key seems to be to build, build, build the northern bases.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 840
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