Tokyo invasion question

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Tokyo invasion question

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> Tokyo invasion question

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Tokyo invasion question - 3/9/2013 6:56:13 PM

eagle1

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline

Is it normal to have 10 or more deliberate ground combats from AI when invading Tokyo all in the same turn.

Post #: 1

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/9/2013 7:36:58 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Don't know what you mean - the ground combat for each hex is consolidated into one combat. Do you mean to say that you see 10 ground combats all in that same Tokyo hex?

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to eagle1)

Post #: 2

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/10/2013 4:48:40 PM

eagle1

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline

Attached is a combat report, there's about (25) separate ground combats in Tokyo during 1 game turn.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 3

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/10/2013 5:14:36 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

That looks totally messed up to me. Unless there is some special rule that I never heard about, it must be a bug. If you can post the save game from just before when this combat took place, MichaelM (the developer) might be able to look at it and perhaps find the problem.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to eagle1)

Post #: 4

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/10/2013 6:02:44 PM

eagle1

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline

This is the saved game before it started. I'll send the combat report in the next post.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 5

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/10/2013 6:07:55 PM

eagle1

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline

Combat report when deliberate attacts started

Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 6

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/11/2013 1:10:55 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

Does the Japanese really have that many units in Tokyo???

There is a limit to how many units get stored for a single combat session. I suspect that this has been exceeded.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 3/11/2013 1:20:34 AM >

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to eagle1)

Post #: 7

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/12/2013 12:15:29 AM

eagle1

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline

Micheal, The scroll over the hex shows enemy units 627, spotted troops 1,438,020 Guns 13776, AFV's 8574.

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 8

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/12/2013 1:26:56 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eagle1

Micheal, The scroll over the hex shows enemy units 627, spotted troops 1,438,020 Guns 13776, AFV's 8574.

"Houston, we have a problem."

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to eagle1)

Post #: 9

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/13/2013 3:30:20 AM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

I should be in Tokio soon, I'll see if I can match the numbers?

(In PACWAR I remember having trouble capturing Tokyo, has GG coded something to make it harder??)

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 10

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/13/2013 3:43:30 AM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

The game has to bring new units onto the map. All units have a base where they will appear. However, if that base is not in friendly hands when the unit is scheduled to appear, there is always a secondary arrival location. I believe it's the national home base for all nationalities. For the US it is San Francisco for example. For Japan, it's Tokyo.

I believe a fair number of units arrive in Tokyo anyway. In a game against the AI, units can end up piling up in Tokyo, especially if you have done a lot of damage to the Japanese merchant fleet. The AI would like to move units to various outposts, but if it can't find suitable transport, the unit will sit where it arrived.

So against the AI, Tokyo can end up with a staggering stack of units, both air and land. Especially if you're ahead of the Allied real world time table (a lot of units that were supposed to appear in various remote bases will find the base has already fallen when the arrival date comes around and will divert to Tokyo).

It's not really any nefarious plan to make Tokyo hard to capture, it's just a consequence of the game engine and the AI trying to do the best it can with a war that has turned out very differently than history.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 11

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/13/2013 3:11:46 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The game has to bring new units onto the map. All units have a base where they will appear. However, if that base is not in friendly hands when the unit is scheduled to appear, there is always a secondary arrival location. I believe it's the national home base for all nationalities. For the US it is San Francisco for example. For Japan, it's Tokyo.

I believe a fair number of units arrive in Tokyo anyway. In a game against the AI, units can end up piling up in Tokyo, especially if you have done a lot of damage to the Japanese merchant fleet. The AI would like to move units to various outposts, but if it can't find suitable transport, the unit will sit where it arrived.

So against the AI, Tokyo can end up with a staggering stack of units, both air and land. Especially if you're ahead of the Allied real world time table (a lot of units that were supposed to appear in various remote bases will find the base has already fallen when the arrival date comes around and will divert to Tokyo).

It's not really any nefarious plan to make Tokyo hard to capture, it's just a consequence of the game engine and the AI trying to do the best it can with a war that has turned out very differently than history.

Bill

Andy might need to put in a trigger that if Tokyo > 'X' AV rail units to 'A' , 'B' , 'C' A latient condition is already there that does not need to be tested that creates 'X' AV in the first place ...

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 12

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/13/2013 4:21:45 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The game has to bring new units onto the map. All units have a base where they will appear. However, if that base is not in friendly hands when the unit is scheduled to appear, there is always a secondary arrival location. I believe it's the national home base for all nationalities. For the US it is San Francisco for example. For Japan, it's Tokyo.

I believe a fair number of units arrive in Tokyo anyway. In a game against the AI, units can end up piling up in Tokyo, especially if you have done a lot of damage to the Japanese merchant fleet. The AI would like to move units to various outposts, but if it can't find suitable transport, the unit will sit where it arrived.

So against the AI, Tokyo can end up with a staggering stack of units, both air and land. Especially if you're ahead of the Allied real world time table (a lot of units that were supposed to appear in various remote bases will find the base has already fallen when the arrival date comes around and will divert to Tokyo).

It's not really any nefarious plan to make Tokyo hard to capture, it's just a consequence of the game engine and the AI trying to do the best it can with a war that has turned out very differently than history.

Bill

That makes sense, but I wonder if the code has infinite capacity (arrays?) to hold LCUs in a base? I'm sure Michael is looking at that as he tries to find out why there were multiple ground attacks instead of one mega-mega.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/13/2013 4:22:11 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 13

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/13/2013 9:26:26 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

It's a bit difficult to explain and I'm not sure I should, but the code doesn't have any inherent limits on the number of units in a hex.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 14

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/14/2013 4:02:13 AM

jcjordan

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline

I noticed as well in my game vs AI that it piled units into Tokyo & never really tried to move them out to forward bases that might've needed them even when bases were available. I think it's more of a problem w/ late war ai scripts but also can be a shortage of ships to transport as well. When I beat the AI in Sept44 I sent Andy a synopsis of the way the game went & gave some ideas for him to try to consider to make the ai more of a late war challenge as generally the ai can't handle a long term campaign as there's just too many variables involved.

I did notice that when I briefly took control of the ai & moved air units around the HI, it moved some of them back to Tokyo then next time the ai was in charge so there is something about Tokyo that the ai will stack lots of forces to defend it.

< Message edited by jcjordan -- 3/14/2013 4:04:57 AM >

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 15

RE: Tokyo invasion question - 3/14/2013 5:27:27 AM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

I once made it to Tokyo in Downfall Ironman and there were something like 1.4 million troops there. Doing a deliberate attack was like dividing by zero. I never did resolve a turn after that, although it was time to put the kibosh on the game anyway.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to jcjordan)

Post #: 16