Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/16/2013 6:39:14 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
I think the reason why I am enamoured by this game is that it represents the greatest human military conflict in human history. By that, the sheer volume of men and materials inviovled from June 21 1941 until Hitler took a pistol to his mouth --well there was never greater conflict. No country ever placed more GDP towards the destruction of another army then WITE. So, how did the desigern do, in terms of replcicating the actual units involved, their locations, TOE, etc? Are we realy the commanders in charge of the actual units inthe historical sense?
Post #: 1
RE: HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/16/2013 8:29:58 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline
To make it short: Yes. Locations as of history, actual commanders command on 22 June (or any of the other dates), and TOE changes occuring exactly as happened. Sometimes even too historical, like the 45 Panzer Division TOE with their laughable stock of tanks, even if you have more than enough.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 2
RE: HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/16/2013 8:45:11 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline
Its historical until the players start playing it

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 3
RE: HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/16/2013 9:52:35 PM   
buchand


Posts: 103
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline
Some might say that the emphasis on historical accuracy has detracted from playability, I couldn't possibly comment
Whatever your view WITE is a classic and should be on everyone's hard disk

_____________________________

Plan? What plan? Attack!!

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 4
RE: HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/17/2013 1:37:45 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
WiTe has the best AI, nothing even comes close.

So its worth getting it to play the AI. 1000's of hours of play time np

The Human vs Human game is still getting tweaked, but is close to 100%.

If you are playing a friend and you guys don't know the know ( and unknown ) exploits it is 100% historical.

Basic house rules can keep it historical.

Best eastern front game easly and then next game will be WiTW. At some pt they have one giant War in Europe!!!


< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/17/2013 1:38:20 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to buchand)
Post #: 5
RE: HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/18/2013 4:25:43 PM   
ypsylon

 

Posts: 114
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline
Oh my, first post in ages...

But I was intrigued by the question and frankly expected some more debate on the subject... probably everybody plays WitE 24/7 and no time to post.

Anyway my take on WitE is as follows.

In short quite accurate when it comes to units, names,commanders. But that about it. It is a game with shroud of historical accuracy. Like Ketza pointed out, it is a game which is historical until human start playing it in turn 1. After that ... well.

Why shroud? Because accuracy is far from perfect and some things just crippling playability.

1. Production model for Germany is broken. Of course I'm fully aware that they can't and shouldn't out-build USSR. But some pieces of equipment are just manufactured in too few numbers and in wrong places (Wespe is good example). I always enjoyed original War in Russia. It was much more accurate model. Where player had a lot of influence what was produced, where, and when (to some extent). Here player is at the mercy of cold numbers.

2. It is impossible to manufacture (&standardize) equipment which reached expiration date. Quite strange considering that a lot of good stuff (pretty much only for Germany) is chopped and changed every year without any way of standardization of units or building up some stocks. Take a Wespe for example. I know that number of built never exceeded 700, but crews loved that vehicle. It was considered one of the best self-propelled guns ever attached to Wermacht armored divisions. And most painful thing is that when exp. date passed Wespe will never reach front lines in sufficient numbers to make any soft of impact and there is no upgrade path. When both Wespe factories shut-down, both are down for good. Highly irritating. BTW: overwhelming majority of Wespe was built in factories in occupied Poland. FAMO Warsaw was biggest supplier. I can't confirm that 100% but armament branch of Hipolit Cegielski based in Rzeszow also participated. In 1939 (before WWII) factory produced 80 anti-tank and artillery pieces per month - it was certainly an asset that Germans just couldn't afford to throw away.

3. When we talk about occupied Poland. Not much happens there. Take city of Poznan as a very good example. It has some Manpower, solitary Rail:1 and Resource: 2 or 3 (despite the fact that no natural resource was present). Truth is that main Hipolit Cegielski factory ('bought' on 1st Nov 39 by Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken - DWM) was major supplier of equipment for Wermacht (optics for range finders, bikes, bicycles, locomotives, trailers, carriages, engines for ships&submarines, fuses, shells & cartridges, parts for various aircrafts). There is literally plethora or things which are wrong. Occupied Czechoslovakia is relatively well developed, but Poland is just barren wasteland (for the most part). I really LOLed hard when checked Katowice. Resource production:7 (joke?) and Synthetic Fuel Production: 2 (jokex2?). To this day that particular region of the country is providing vast quantities of coal, after all Poland even today is 3rd coal producer in Europe (Russia/Germany/Poland). As for Synthetic Fuel, after Germany conquered Poland they almost immediately began work on production of Synthetic Fuel from coal. Silesia was perfect location as there was (pretty much) inexhaustible source of coal. Ignoring right now painful topic of concentration camps as almost all Synthetic Fuel plants (in Oswiecim) were located near one (Auschwitz). On a personal note, my grandpa and grandma worked in Oswiecim chemical plant, but thankfully never had to endure Auschwitz. Biggest Synthetic Plant on Polish soil was located in Police [Hydrierwerke Pölitz – Aktiengesellschaft], as in previous case multiple "work" camps were located nearby or in factory itself. Plant produced (1940-45) around 2000000 tonnes of various petrols alone. In 1943 HP-A alone manufactured over 15% of all Nazi synthetic fuels output. And Allies went to great lenghts to level it to the ground (achieved finally in 1945). There is no Police/Pölitz on the map. City is located 15km from Szczecin/Stettin. During WWII (from 15.10.1939) Police were included into entity called Wielkie Miasto Szczecin/Großstadt Stettin (Great City of Szczecin). Nazis loved Groß-everything. Guns, tanks, building, cities... Certainly there is more bits and pieces, but I don't want to create biggest post in Internet era, so just few examples LOL.

4. Logistics. Massive disappointment. Simple example... again. Take real WW2 when Wermacht was closing on Leningrad. They cut the only highway and last rail link between the city and rest of USSR. But in game there are many links and for units to stay in supply controlling roads is not important (because there are NO roads - ludicrous!). Supply arrives no problem. Doesn't matter if it is urban or wooden swamps, all what is required is one open hex. While in reality citizens of Leningrad were aware that with roads cut off it may spell doom on the city and so very nearly did... Same situation in Belarus in 1941. During Red Army retreat from that region, Germans cut the ONLY road linking Bialystok with Minsk thus making escape virtually impossible (just some scattered infantry made it escaping via dense woods and swamps). In game it is required to encircle units completely and wait a turn to force surrender. In reality cutting one road was enough to prevent enemy from retreating.

5. Air war. No hope in sight for improvements. When sending 1000 planes is not enough to kill one soldier, that is totally, uber pants.

6. Returning to production. I'm frankly amazed that Germans would consider closing factory A or B when they controlling Leningrad, Moscow and closing on Ural. But in game Last Year/Month/Day date is final. Doesn't matter how GOOD war is progressing on the East, and how much resources are stockpiled. Game mechanics just are not up to the job sometimes.

7. OK, last point - seriously! (but not the issue). Guards units. At some stage USSR just spam those one after another without stopping them. Title Guards was only awarded to units with exceptional achievements on the battlefield. If Soviets only retreating and can't hold the line how so Guards are created at frightening pace?

Uff... lots of text. Game come a long way since v1.0, but there is still quite long road ahead.



(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 6
RE: HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? - 3/18/2013 6:02:44 PM   
chuckbbq

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/21/2012
Status: offline
I don't think anyone past the first reply really read your question. I'm sure you don't care if you don't get to play "factory manager, 1942". Yes, units are historical in the sense of where they are in June 1941, when they are put into action, and when they are taken out of action. Historical commanders are represented and have ratings based on their historical skill set. Toe, I can't speak of, but units upgrade from year to year to reflect new equipment. As someone else pointed out, sometimes it can be TOO historical (German does exceptionally well, but still sees withdrawals based on a losing war) but it's a minor complaint. Once the game starts going though, you're free to assign units/commanders to different HQ's/fronts, so there's definitely a lot of flexibility.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 7
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> HOW HISTORICAL IS WITE? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.875