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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 4:57:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Poultry Lad is a voice of moderation and courtesy (which is common for him - a good trait).  I recognize John isn't intending anything.  I realize this is my own personality quirk.  I'm just venting so that I don't dig back at John.

As for the Allies, I do think they are (I am) doing extremely well in this game.  I know that sounds immodest, but it's my general feeling about how things stand right now.   

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/21/2013 4:58:24 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:04:11 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
But, man, in my little world, I would never insert little digs into my communications with an opponent.


Dude, that's half the fun of the game, isn't it?

After having an I-boat torpedo the xAK Clan McTavish or xAK Clan MacKlaTavish or xAK Clan MacMcKlaTavish or some other impenetrable Scottish name, I proposed to my opponent that he should look upon this as a service. He no longer had to try to mentally pronounce that ship whenever he read it's name and assigned it to a task force in the future.

What's humor and what is a 'dig'? 'Tis a fine line, admittedly. At the very least, your opponent should follow your requests for communication. If you are a communication minimalist (and it sounds like you are), then short 'here you go' sorts of game exchange communiques should be the order of the day. But then you lose any sort of give and take and exchange of ideas about the game while it's still underway. If you want more communication / learning opportunities, then you run the risk of brusque or affrontery language or symbolism being used. I don't know if you can have it both ways...

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:09:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/3/42
 
D Plus One:  Four IJN DDs visit Tarawa and tangle with a succession of vulnerable Allied shipping, beginning with five DM (they peform well and drop their load) and a succession of small transport TFs (I think I lost an xAP and an xAK with several more taking light damage).  I had withdrawn my covering combat ships to give them a head start in eluding the KB.  Emilys from Tabituea - airfield size one - damage one xAK.  Lots of patrols flying.  Betties from Malolap miss a destroyer.  Overall the withdrawl is going pretty well.  The KB wasn't sighted, but I'm sure she'll arrive on scene tomorrow.  I'm going to lose a bunch of stuff, but I think most of the valuable stuff will get away.  Tarawa has 170 AV, one fort, 3k supply; Makin has 140 AV and will have one fort tomorrow; Abemama has 67 AV.  Supply is going to be an issue, but prep is high at these bases (except for 7th Marines at Tarawa, which is at around 32).  I also lose an AO at Christmas Island to a sub.

D Plus Two:  I'm nearly certain the KB will arrive tomorrow.  John is going to wade in and sink a bunch of ships, but I think the highest value items - my combat ships, DM, DMS, and AP should get away.

NoPac:  30 Kittyhawks and 18 F4F move to Cold Bay to cover a big supply convoy.

Australia:  Kanga Force paradrops and takes Cloncurry. 

Ramree Island:  The fast transport convoy should go in tonight (though I've seen lots of instance where a FT convoy only moves one hex, readjusting its internal calculation of distance and mission).  Three P-40E squadrons at Akyab to fly LRCAP - one over the TF, two over Ramree. The carriers will take place due south (true) of Akyab.  Lots more ships coming in behind.  John's picked up a few more whiffs, so he suspects.

Burma:  Huge IJAF sweeps over Imphal down roughly 32 Allied fighters at a cost of roughly 16 Japanese.  The Allies had much bigger numbers, but the enemy came in successive allotments that eventually wore down my guys.

China:  Chinese movements continue in good order.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/21/2013 5:11:54 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:19:08 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

As there is no psychiatric definition of "victory disease"
but is not victory disease a sign of a narcissistic personality disorder? almost pathognumonic ...


You meant pathognomonic, I assume? Isn't pathognumonic only related to diseases of family Ungulata?

http://www.ultimateungulate.com/whatisanungulate.html

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 3/21/2013 5:20:36 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:21:15 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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Status: offline 		OMG - there's a web site named "Ultimate Ungulate"!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:23:07 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

OMG - there's a web site named "Ultimate Ungulate"!


Yes. And that's bull! Or at least part of it is.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:25:37 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

As there is no psychiatric definition of "victory disease"
but is not victory disease a sign of a narcissistic personality disorder? almost pathognumonic ...


You meant pathognomonic, I assume? Isn't pathognumonic only related to diseases of family Ungulata?

http://www.ultimateungulate.com/whatisanungulate.html




yes and I can't claim fumble fingers because the 'O' key is seperated by the "i" ket from the "U' key

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:52:54 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

As for the Allies, I do think they are (I am) doing extremely well in this game. I know that sounds immodest, but it's my general feeling about how things stand right now


[sillyness=on] My only concern at this point is to what glee you are willing to sacrifice those 1's & 0's .. those ships around Tarawa have probably not bought into the grand plan ... yet [/sillyness].

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 5:54:35 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This is great information!  Thanks, gents (he says, comparing his post count to GreyJoy's....).


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 6:20:11 PM   
Crackaces


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Status: offline 		I do think it is rather cruel that after you smack Tarawa ...on the other side of the world you plan to shake the big bowl of jelly at Ramree Island .. almost with perfect timing ..

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 6:32:51 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I think my cure has been worse than the disease.  In strictly avoiding commenting in my emails in order to avoid taunting, gloating, or giving away information, I've wound myself pretty tight and clearly denied my opponent an aspect of the game he enjoys.  So I apologize to John (and PzH, etc.).  I'll loosen the reigns a bit and see how it works.  Here was my email back to John:  "I was prepared for a move against NE India. You could have taken Colombo back in February or March, but not Calcutta. Here's a genuine question, not a jab, but how in the world did you understimate the forces needed to take Singapore and Luzon? You have so much experience that you know what it takes....Subs haven't hit too many strategic ships in the game, so losing Mississippi wasn't a happy moment."

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 8:15:29 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think my cure has been worse than the disease.  In strictly avoiding commenting in my emails in order to avoid taunting, gloating, or giving away information, I've wound myself pretty tight and clearly denied my opponent an aspect of the game he enjoys.  So I apologize to John (and PzH, etc.).  I'll loosen the reigns a bit and see how it works.  Here was my email back to John:  "I was prepared for a move against NE India. You could have taken Colombo back in February or March, but not Calcutta. Here's a genuine question, not a jab, but how in the world did you understimate the forces needed to take Singapore and Luzon? You have so much experience that you know what it takes....Subs haven't hit too many strategic ships in the game, so losing Mississippi wasn't a happy moment."


I hope you keep up the email commentary here, as it provides such a great look at another important aspect of the game. Your question is both direct and useful. If he actually takes that on and comes to terms with his over-expectation of results without proper preparation, you might end up with a better game down the road.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 9:21:07 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think my cure has been worse than the disease.  In strictly avoiding commenting in my emails in order to avoid taunting, gloating, or giving away information, I've wound myself pretty tight and clearly denied my opponent an aspect of the game he enjoys.  So I apologize to John (and PzH, etc.).  I'll loosen the reigns a bit and see how it works.  Here was my email back to John:  "I was prepared for a move against NE India. You could have taken Colombo back in February or March, but not Calcutta. Here's a genuine question, not a jab, but how in the world did you understimate the forces needed to take Singapore and Luzon? You have so much experience that you know what it takes....Subs haven't hit too many strategic ships in the game, so losing Mississippi wasn't a happy moment."


The highlighted section seems a bit too incisve, though I understand your acknowledgement of his experience is meant to be deferential.

It's like the old joke....


Football Coach to players before dance: Say something nice to the girl you dance with.


....


Offensive tackle at dance: Gee, you don't sweat much for a fat girl.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 9:33:08 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

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Status: offline 		Fat Girl: Thank you very much.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 9:40:56 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		This is fun to read, even as a JFB. Your style of having planned Ops ready to go at multiple targets, combined with your willingness to abort them when necessary, can result in this sort of death by a thousand cuts approach. Methinks John will be very shocked by Ramree right after Tarawa. Then Exmouth, etc. He will whipsaw around the map.

Question - I believe you said that a Nimitz like Pacific strategy is your master plan for this game? How do you see that shaking out over time? How does the Gilberts invasion play into that?

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 3/21/2013 9:42:10 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 9:50:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I do plan the Nimitz advance across the Pacific, though circumstances may ultimately lead me elsewhere. 

It's too early for any one operation to really fit into that plan.  The Gilberts were just a good target of opportunity.  If anything, it might be harmful long term if it sways John to pay more attention to his Pacific islands.

But the situation in SoPac and Oz are set up nicely to keep John's focus there.  That's where he's put a great deal of time and effort, so naturally he'll be sensitive to threats, real or perceived.  The Allied moves on Exmouth and Carnavon (plus the feints at Cocos) are meant to keep the pressure on.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/21/2013 9:51:13 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 9:54:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Cap, I know what you mean, but that's the best question I can ask.  I could ask:  "What in the world made you bring a naked infantry division to invade Luganville?"  Or "Why aren't you paying attention in Burma?" or "What's with the repeated shock attacks at bad odds throughout the game?"  There are alot of questions I want to ask, but the one I actually asked is genuine and isn't meant as a dig - no really!

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/21/2013 9:58:38 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 10:14:27 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

This is fun to read, even as a JFB. Your style of having planned Ops ready to go at multiple targets, combined with your willingness to abort them when necessary, can result in this sort of death by a thousand cuts approach.


More like a thousand stab wounds than paper cuts .. pretty soon one big abdominal slice I suspect

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 10:41:44 PM   
Cribtop


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Joined: 8/10/2008
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Status: offline 		Agreed. And the cuts will get deeper as time goes on!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 10:49:54 PM   
pws1225

 

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From: Tate's Hell, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

This is fun to read, even as a JFB. Your style of having planned Ops ready to go at multiple targets, combined with your willingness to abort them when necessary, can result in this sort of death by a thousand cuts approach. Methinks John will be very shocked by Ramree right after Tarawa. Then Exmouth, etc. He will whipsaw around the map.



+1 to Cribtop's comments. While all JFBs want to see John take Pearl and the entire West Coast, you have to admire CR's game. It's a beautiful and scary thing!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/21/2013 11:34:08 PM   
Paladin1dcs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

This is fun to read, even as a JFB. Your style of having planned Ops ready to go at multiple targets, combined with your willingness to abort them when necessary, can result in this sort of death by a thousand cuts approach. Methinks John will be very shocked by Ramree right after Tarawa. Then Exmouth, etc. He will whipsaw around the map.



+1 to Cribtop's comments. While all JFBs want to see John take Pearl and the entire West Coast, you have to admire CR's game. It's a beautiful and scary thing!


And that is the very reason I'm in here as well. The Allies are usually used like a sledgehammer in that it takes forever to get set up and swinging, but once the momentum is there, it's almost unstoppable. The Japanese side, OTOH, is usually played as just enough force at just the right place at just the right time, always conserving energy for the long haul. What I see CR doing here is combing the two, using the Allies as a rapier now, when he has to use just enough, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does once he's got most of the fun toys in late '44 and '45. Will CR still be using the Rapier or will he trade it in for a Claymore and start hacking off whole limbs?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 12:11:09 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladin1dcs
I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does once he's got most of the fun toys in late '44 and '45.


Alas, I doubt we'll see those dates in this game. I could be wrong, but that's what I think. I'd lay odds were I a bettin' man. Which I am. So I'll give anyone interested 2:1 odds.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 1:32:05 AM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladin1dcs
I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does once he's got most of the fun toys in late '44 and '45.


Alas, I doubt we'll see those dates in this game. I could be wrong, but that's what I think. I'd lay odds were I a bettin' man. Which I am. So I'll give anyone interested 2:1 odds.



I am a betting man ... [see David Trinidad, ADB Iceman, and seperately lookup Crackaces online poker .... :) ] Hmmmm CR has yet to have an AAR go beyond 1943 .. not very good odds Checkenboy

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 1:33:49 AM   
Crackaces


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quote:

will he trade it in for a Claymore and start hacking off whole limbs?


Actually most of the time this is the IJFB's problem .. and using the KB like a Claymore rather than a fine tuned instrument that it is lead the IJ to forget about a defensive line .. thus it is hard for games to last into 1944 ...

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 9:37:09 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladin1dcs
I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does once he's got most of the fun toys in late '44 and '45.


Alas, I doubt we'll see those dates in this game. I could be wrong, but that's what I think. I'd lay odds were I a bettin' man. Which I am. So I'll give anyone interested 2:1 odds.



Is the bet whether this gets into 44? I might take you up on that one! John won't likely quit if the KB is still in operation.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 1:29:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		6/4/4/42
 
D Plus Two:  The full KB arrives just west of Abemama.  Most of my ships are just a little too far to the east to draw attacks.  A couple of wounded xAKs do get destroyed, but the KB misses a lone picket DD I forgot to retire yesterday.  Tarawa, Makin and Abemama now have to hunder down.  Makin forts go to level one.  Tarawa airfield goes to level one in a couple of days, then I"ll shut that down to concentrate on forts and to conserve supply.

D Plus Three:  Uh oh, the KB is close to a host of Allied ships that are naked and scattering to the NE, E and SE.  I'm going to lose ALOT of them tomorrow.  What concerns me is that so many of my good ships are too close for comfort - the two-BB TF is just 21 hexes to the east (but almost sure safe - it will retire further east and then south to Tahiti, eventually going to Oz).  Two of my valuable APs are just 19 hexes east and one is 17 hexes east.  There are so many xAK and xAP closer, though, that John hopefully won't catch these good ships.

Tactical/Operational/Strategic  This was a huge success on a tactical level.  On an operational level, full surprise, but I'm going to lose alot of ships.  On a strategic level this is a huge success.  Not only do the Allies drive a surprsiing wedge into an unsettled enemy, but now the full KB plus more combat (and possibly transport) TFs en route, meaning John's going to expend time and resources and assets up here in a major way.

NoPac:  The Canadian/American ambush at Cold Bay works like a charm.  The three fighter squadrons claim something like 34 Japanese strike aircraft (Kates) and escorts (Zeros) at a cost of one damaged xAK.

SoPac:  John's army is closing in on Noumea, but suddenly all his ships are leaving to visit the Gilberts.  The biggest part of N Force Detachment, including all air support, are now at Luganville.  Will John try to take this island?  I don't think so short term, given his recent failure there and sudden focus on the Gilberts.

Oz:  The Allied ships continue to move from Melborne to Esperance to load troops and invade Exmouth.  The two Aussie units total about 210 AV and are 80% prepped at this point.

Cocos:  Something picked up CL Perth way out in the middle of nowhere, 20 hexes from Cocos and 33 from Carnavon.  This probably puzzles John, but I'm diverting Perth to Capetown, due south, rather than to Oz.  I'm concerned she might blunder into a small CVE/CL force.

Ramree Island D Day:  This invasion goes off without a hitch and is effective in ways that I didn't foresee.  The island is vacant and falls to the marine raiders.  A four xAK supply TF is also unlaoding.  John's aircraft apparently don't catch sight of the Allied carriers, combat ships and transports just three and four hexes distant.  Scattered large air strikes come in and just get torn to shreds by Allied LRCAP.  No ships are damaged, so the APD will begin shuttling forward support troops like an Aussie engineer unit at Calcutta awaiting their chance.

D Day Plus One:  But there's some kind of glitch on the map.  Ramree is a dot hex with 0 port and 0 (5) airfield except that on my map there's no base information at the bottom of the screen.  IE, I can't build the airfield nor forts.  I've posted this in Tech Support.  It may be a p-hex thing that John can fix.

China:  The Japanese have a small Chinese army hung up east of Hengyang.  It's blocking the road.  The Japanese are present in much larger numbers.  The Japanese keep attacking and getting chewed to bits.

Overall:  The last three days have come together almost perfectly for the Allies - ambush in NoPac, ambush by invasion in CenPac, para assault to retake Cloncurry, detected decoy at Cocos, ambush by invasion in the Bay of Bengal.  Judging by an email, which I'll post later, John is highly agitated.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 1:51:38 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Foxes giving chase to chickens.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 2:01:15 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		Ramree Island




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 2:43:58 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		John's email: Opening War Plan: Did you COUNT the number of IDs committed to Luzon at war’s start? I placed no less then SIX there to take out Luzon ASAP. This worked in Lew’s game to the tune of being done here by mid-January 42. The quick fall of Manila seemed to point to this same thing happening but then I got a series of the worst die rolls I could ever imagine at Clark. The Stacking Limits CRUSHED my attack values and left such a mess afterwards I was forced to drop the assault down to two ID. Terrible to watch. Singapore was meant to take some time as I wanted to have the DEI and Cocos quickly. The Java and Cocos part worked but your troops stubborn resistance at Singers itself defied the imagination. How many times did I attack when your Forts were at ZERO? I believe the answer is six or seven. Once again the worst result I’ve ever seen. Each time I had a single ID take nearly ALL the casualties. When Imperial Guards crossed over the strait and went to Singers it lost 65% of its combat power and didn’t do a thing. Lots of Forum imput: Do you have Southern HQ close? YES. Do you have everyone prepping for the target? YES. It went on and on... My AAR clearly states my frustration by Feb 1st that I was throwing in the towel and starting all over from scratch when it came to planning.  Current: Your single ship TF drive me nuts. You force me to use up 40-50 sorties to kill a single ship. Out go the TTs and nothing is left to replace it.  How about the air-to-air last turn? Not a single location (Aleutians, Burma, Marshalls) launched a single coordinated attack! AWFUL. I lost 115 planes for NOTHING. Last turn sums up this campaign in a nutshell... Done with venting....

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/22/2013 2:46:58 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't replied yet, but I'm working on something.  On the one hand, I don't want to give my opponent information that will help him fight against me, so I may not reply at all.  But surely folks in John's AAR are telling him what's going wrong?  It aint dice rolls: 1. The number of infantry divisions at Luzon wasn't the problem, nor was it bad dice rolls. The problem was bad odds shock attacks against units in good terrain and with good supply. Until Japan eliminates supply at places like Clark Field, shock attacks can only be used sparingly. Repeated shock attacks against bad odds are really bad news. When you were shock attacking, the Allies had good supply, good defensive terrain, and roughly equal AV. That translated into decimation for your units. 2. The initial attack at Singers while crossing the Causeway will be by shock, of course, but after that shock attacks had better be used sparingly if at all while the Allies still have supply. You didn't employ air power adequately to deal with supply within a reasonable time. Meanwhile, you kept shock attacking and you didn't bring sufficient support troops - engineers, artillery, armor. Your infantry divisions were consequently decimated. 3. Luganville was indicative - you brought an infantry division but no support units. A naked division poorly prepped lacking the amphibious bonus against a decent garrison well dug in on good terrain isn't a recipe for success. 4. With rare exceptions, I'm not using single ships. In the Gilberts at the moment I am by necessity. Some of my ships were damaged and therefore are slowed down and the KB caught up to them. I've also issued the order to "scatter" as would anybody under these circumstances. 5. I very rarely now use merchant ships as pickets. I do establish good picket lines using minelaying, combat and ASW ships on patrol.  6. You air attacks are reasonably well coordinated - certainly as good or better than anything that might have happened in the war. To the extent that they haven't been as coordinated as you would like, this helps model reality, because in the real war Japan didn't just snap its fingers and move aircraft around and instantaneously have coordinated and effective air power.  7. Japan is using massed and well coordinated air power in China that is non historical and also highly one sided. Due to lack of supply, the Allies cannot use fighters in opposition. You've put most of your air force into China and bombed undefended Chinese troops forever. Had the Allies had the ability to counter you wouldn't have taken Changsha. But so be it. There's no house rule against, so I live with it. But I'll get revenge. :) 8. A Japanese tank unit just crossed Australia under circumstances in which that never could've happen since the tanks would have run out of fuel long ago. From a real life standpoint, that's silly. From a game standpoint it perfectly fine. I can do the same thing if I want to. Not sure I'll send this email.  Not sure the latter two points are worth making since they don't respond to his points, though hey do help illustrate that feelings of "hey, you're abusing the game" are (as always) mutual.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1080
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