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Looking for Recommendations - 4/22/2013 9:13:16 PM

satch

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Looking for 2 games. The first is a world war 2 grand strategy game. I tried the demos for Strategic Command 2 and did not like it. I did enjoy the demo for Making History 2 War of the World. Can't find a demo for Commander: Europe at War. Any comments on these 3 for a grand strategey game, or other suggestions. Also used to play Steel Panthers and like it. Better than Panzer General. Is there something similar on the market that works with Windowzs 7?

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RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/22/2013 9:45:22 PM

GJK

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Third Reich PC run through DOSBOX with DOSSHELL front end. I've been playing this a lot lately, trying out different strategies as found in old issues of the AH General magazine and the Third Reich Player's Guide.

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Post #: 2

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/22/2013 10:37:00 PM

satch

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Also tried Unity of Command demo. It seems similar to Panzer General. Any comments.

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RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/22/2013 11:31:23 PM

GJK

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Unity of Command looks nice and is certainly easy to get into and play. I'm personally not a fan of counter-pushing when all that you're doing is bringing up your strong units to try and punch holes in the line where the enemies weakest units appear to be. You get caught in that loop turn after turn and I just yawn. Third Reich is very DOS, so if you're into spiffy new graphics, you won't like it. It's also not for the feint of heart; it is very chess-like in its precision. If you never played the boardgame nor care to invest the time learning how to do so, then you won't like 3RPC. I would LOVE to see this classic remade, with new graphics and the few bugs that linger in the original ironed out. I'm really excited to see MWiF come out but a bit disappointed that it won't have an AI (at least not initially from my understanding).

If you can get a copy of the original Strategic Command, that might be something to look into. It uses hexes and is very much an upgrade of the old Clash of Steel DOS game. I wish that I could find my original copy, I've been looking for it.

Gary Grigsby has a ETO monster available through Matrix but I have not tried it.

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Post #: 4

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/22/2013 11:35:20 PM

GJK

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Oh, just remembered - The Operational Art of War is a classic (available here at Matrix) and there's some really well done ETO scenarios for it. See http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/browse_scenario.php for some examples. TOAW is a fairly heavy game to get into (properly) and most of the ETO scenarios have TONS of units but this might be the one that you're looking for.

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Post #: 5

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/22/2013 11:40:03 PM

shunwick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK

Oh, just remembered - The Operational Art of War is a classic (available here at Matrix) and there's some really well done ETO scenarios for it. See http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/browse_scenario.php for some examples. TOAW is a fairly heavy game to get into (properly) and most of the ETO scenarios have TONS of units but this might be the one that you're looking for.

GJK,

Thank you for saving me the trouble of quoting all the WW II and WW I scenarios for TOAW. I should point out though that even I would not claim TOAW to be a Grand Strategy Game or similar to Steel Panthers.

Best wishes,
Steve

< Message edited by shunwick -- 4/22/2013 11:42:28 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 12:46:24 AM

satch

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Operational Art of War seems like it is very involved. Playing a game looks like it would take forever. Is that accurate?

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Post #: 7

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 12:47:36 AM

satch

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Panzer Corps seems just a bit too simple to me. I am looking for something between this and the seemingly massive micromanagement of something like TOAW.

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Post #: 8

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 1:20:42 AM

rickier65

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what are your system specs. you might want to look at Panzer Command Ostfront. It's tactical rather than grand tactical, but if you enjoyed the scale of Steel Panthers you might want to check it out.

there is a demo that should give you a good feel.

Rick

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RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 10:59:29 AM

wodin

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Grand Strategy isn't normally my thing..however Time of Fury is a possibility.

Commander The Great War for a WW1 game maybe?

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Post #: 10

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 11:58:44 AM

GJK

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I found an interesting site that let's you play 3RPC through an online emulator. I don't think that this would be counted as an abandonware download site since you don't download the game but mods delete this link if you think otherwise:

http://www.freegameempire.com/PlayNowNoticePage.aspx?ProductID=5635&ProductName=Third+Reich&DotNet=true

I was playing again last night. As the Germans, try taking Poland and Yugoslavia on the first turn. I actually took Poland, Yugoslavia and Denmark on the first turn but it crippled the German economy since I had to purchase Offensive options on all 3 fronts while also paying to DoW on Yugo and Denmark. I think turn 2 should be Denmark and Norway (airborne drop) before heading West. I want to experiment with bypassing France altogether to see if I can get a quick victory in Russia. I've also never been able to pull of Sealion. Finally, I want to experiment with not attacking Russia in the traditional method but instead to overtake N. Africa and then move into Turkey and invade through the Caucus mts. At any rate, tons of things that you can try in this game, or most ETO games I would think. If an ETO game is scripted and restricts you to historical outcomes, I'd bypass it (personally).

Oh, and the manual for the game is on their site as well:

http://www.freegameempire.com/games/Third-Reich/manual-pdf

< Message edited by GJK -- 4/23/2013 12:01:37 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 1:08:20 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: satch

Looking for 2 games. The first is a world war 2 grand strategy game. I tried the demos for Strategic Command 2 and did not like it. I did enjoy the demo for Making History 2 War of the World. Can't find a demo for Commander: Europe at War. Any comments on these 3 for a grand strategey game, or other suggestions. Also used to play Steel Panthers and like it. Better than Panzer General. Is there something similar on the market that works with Windowzs 7?

Although it's restricted (for the most part) to the Pacific theatre, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition does a stellar job as a sweeping, deep and incredibly detailed strategy game. I can't recommend it enough.

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Post #: 12

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 1:50:37 PM

Anguille

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For my WW2 fix, i play Strategic War in Europe...

< Message edited by Anguille -- 4/23/2013 2:10:10 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 2:13:47 PM

Barthheart

Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK

I found an interesting site that let's you play 3RPC through an online emulator. I don't think that this would be counted as an abandonware download site since you don't download the game but mods delete this link if you think otherwise:

http://www.freegameempire.com/PlayNowNoticePage.aspx?ProductID=5635&ProductName=Third+Reich&DotNet=true

I was playing again last night. As the Germans, try taking Poland and Yugoslavia on the first turn. I actually took Poland, Yugoslavia and Denmark on the first turn but it crippled the German economy since I had to purchase Offensive options on all 3 fronts while also paying to DoW on Yugo and Denmark. I think turn 2 should be Denmark and Norway (airborne drop) before heading West. I want to experiment with bypassing France altogether to see if I can get a quick victory in Russia. I've also never been able to pull of Sealion. Finally, I want to experiment with not attacking Russia in the traditional method but instead to overtake N. Africa and then move into Turkey and invade through the Caucus mts. At any rate, tons of things that you can try in this game, or most ETO games I would think. If an ETO game is scripted and restricts you to historical outcomes, I'd bypass it (personally).

Oh, and the manual for the game is on their site as well:

http://www.freegameempire.com/games/Third-Reich/manual-pdf

WoW! What great find GJK! Thanks for posting it.

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Post #: 14

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 2:25:35 PM

GJK

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Pretty cool, huh? I just happened upon that site. If you've never played Third Reich, the first trick is to learn how to take Poland on the first turn. The trick is learning how to counterair the Polish air, while leaving air assets available (tip: you'll need to break down those 5-4 air units). You'll also have to learn to exploit the armor meaning that you have to leave some uncommitted during the regular combat phase and then utilize them from breakthrough hexes during the exploitation combat. Fun stuff - tough game to master. There's a reason why it's such a classic.

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Post #: 15

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 9:29:32 PM

Kuokkanen

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Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: satch

Panzer Corps seems just a bit too simple to me. I am looking for something between this and the seemingly massive micromanagement of something like TOAW.

Panzer Corps is modernized version of Panzer General. 'nuff said.

Heaviest grand strategy monster games Matrix has available are War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition and War in the East. The Operational Art of War III falls between those monsters and Panzer Corps. I've read most of the manual, and it doesn't look too demanding to me. Game is very much scalable: counter sizes have variety from squad up to corps, and lots of between. Wars and time periods (& related scenarios) covered vary from Napoleon to Gulf Wars.

I haven't had yet have time to play the game (after I got through the manual, I have been very busy at work, and I should go to sleep now...), but as I understand it, it's just about moving counters, issuing orders (from very short list available for unit), declaring targets for attacks, and keep close eye to flow of supply (no truck counters to move around, but you can have numbers over hexes which give you general idea about supply transportation). You can start with some small scale scenarios in Tutorial section with only tens of counters, then try Operation Barbarossa or other large scale scenario.

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Post #: 16

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/23/2013 10:12:48 PM

shunwick

Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

I haven't had yet have time to play the game (after I got through the manual, I have been very busy at work, and I should go to sleep now...), but as I understand it, it's just about moving counters, issuing orders (from very short list available for unit), declaring targets for attacks, and keep close eye to flow of supply (no truck counters to move around, but you can have numbers over hexes which give you general idea about supply transportation). You can start with some small scale scenarios in Tutorial section with only tens of counters, then try Operation Barbarossa or other large scale scenario.

Matti,

Ah yes, but the real beauty of TOAW is when you can learn to look passed the hex grid to the terrain your troops are fighting in. When you can feel the wind on your face and smell the smoke from the burning town. When you can look passed the counters to the troops under your control and witness them cold, hungry, hurting, struggling, living and dying. That's when TOAW comes alive.

Best wishes,
Steve

< Message edited by shunwick -- 4/23/2013 10:16:13 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Looking for Recommendations - 4/24/2013 5:09:37 AM

Kuokkanen

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Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Heaviest grand strategy monster games Matrix has available are War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition and War in the East. The Operational Art of War III falls between those monsters and Panzer Corps. I've read most of the manual, and it doesn't look too demanding to me. Game is very much scalable: counter sizes have variety from squad up to corps, and lots of between. Wars and time periods (& related scenarios) covered vary from Napoleon to Gulf Wars.

I haven't had yet have time to play the game (after I got through the manual, I have been very busy at work, and I should go to sleep now...), but as I understand it, it's just about moving counters, issuing orders (from very short list available for unit), declaring targets for attacks, and keep close eye to flow of supply (no truck counters to move around, but you can have numbers over hexes which give you general idea about supply transportation). You can start with some small scale scenarios in Tutorial section with only tens of counters, then try Operation Barbarossa or other large scale scenario.

Further clarifications of that game:
You can read full TO&E of every counter with details down to every vehicle, every heavy weapon, and every squad. That aside, on the map you see counter with either NATO symbol OR isometric 3d-like model. Size of counter (squad, platoon, company, battalion etc.), movement points, and approximate combat values (offense/defense) give you general idea about unit's combat capabilities. Supply status (= readiness) is among the most important things to know. Unit's overall weight is needed for transportation purposes. Most of the rest are trivial data and therefore can be overlooked. Therefore game should be only slightly more complicated than Panzer Corps.

Combat:
Several units can attack one target at once. Flanking can be done when attacks come from several directions. When some units fight, other units will lose movement points, but they will maintain their readiness and can be used to pursuit fleeing enemy and/or do breakthrough the enemy lines. I guess this should make fairly realistic use of British infantry/cruiser tank tactics.

Supply:
There are some supply points around the map. Supply distribution is most effective along the rails and roads. Air supply is modeled, and is used for units where ground supply doesn't reach. Heavily motorized units can use their trucks to improve flow of supply when they don't move. Dedicated (movable) supply units are included. Units improve their readiness when they don't move (consider it as automatical use of supply button from Panzer General/Corps)

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