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Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 3:35:00 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I started war gaming I suppose with Axis and Allies and Panzer General. Abstract and high level. I then moved to squad level. A tank is a tank and a squad is some guys with rifles and maybe one has the SAW. Mortars and MGs are teams that can be attached to the squad or squads. Steel Panthers, Combat Mission.

I like CS because I don't have to move all those individual units. It looks good enough in 3d mode and has animations. The abstractions work for me for the most part.

What bothers me is when I have a hex with a platoon of MGs or Mortars. An SP of 3 is supposed to represent 3 teams of that unit as I understand it. There is no way to split that up like you can do in a squad game. In fact any platoon cannot be split up. Sometimes we have teams like antitank or snipers but then we are starting to lean toward squad level.

How do you wrap your head around this or do you just treat it like chess pieces with hit points?
Post #: 1
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 4:49:04 PM   
scottintacoma

 

Posts: 192
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Junk,

I think the units actually represent sqauds. a Company would have 3 platoons of 3 squads. Each sqaud is about 12 men, so for infantry a 6 point unit is 12 men. For vehicles, each unit equals 1 veihcle.

That is my thinking at least.

Scott in Tacoma

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 2
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 4:59:17 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Agreed. 6 point platoon is half squads times 3. 3 point tank platoon is 3 tanks. My problem becomes that you can't send one of those tanks over there to create a screen or crossfire. So I tend to fall back on older games that had health points or hit points and not 3 things represented by one graphic. The real bothersome thing is when my two platoons of troops retreat and leave the supposed 3 bazooka teams behind and alone in the hex. Or MGs or mortars or similar.

(in reply to scottintacoma)
Post #: 3
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 7:23:51 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottgibson

Junk,

I think the units actually represent sqauds. a Company would have 3 platoons of 3 squads. Each sqaud is about 12 men, so for infantry a 6 point unit is 12 men. For vehicles, each unit equals 1 veihcle.

That is my thinking at least.

Scott in Tacoma


From the manual:

What is the game scale?
A. The game scale is six minutes per turn and 250 meters per hex. Each Strength Point (SP) of an infantry platoon represents a half squad (thus, 6 SPs represent a platoon of three squads). Each SP of a Machine Gun platoon represents one MG “team” (and, thus, one MG); each SP of a gun (i.e., gun, mortar, or howitzer) battery represents one gun and its attendant crew; each SP of a vehicular platoon (regardless of type) represents one vehicle and its crew. Crews and guns are considered the same units for game play purposes.

At this scale I can see a scenario designer splitting a platoon into squads, based on the theme of the scenario. I just am not sure I like the idea of a player being able to do so.

RR


< Message edited by MrRoadrunner -- 4/27/2013 7:25:29 PM >

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to scottintacoma)
Post #: 4
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 8:16:57 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		You've missed the point of my post but that's ok. I don't want to split squads or platoons. I want to comprehend how teams get left behind in a retreat. Did they not see everyone else run away? Stuff like that.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 5
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 11:50:21 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Then help me understand.
You want a unit (one platoon) to be able to leave someone behind?
Or, if more than one unit is in a hex, say a tank, a mortar, and an infantry platoon you want them to all leave because of the fire upon the hex?

I am dumb. Or, maybe just dense.
But, it was my understanding that direct fire is upon the unit, indirect fire is upon all units in the hex, but each unit is effected by a separate die roll.

I can see some staying and others leaving based on how they handle the experience individually (according to the die roll for each unit).

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 6
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/27/2013 11:53:07 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Never mind. Let this thread die.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 7
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/28/2013 2:23:12 AM   
Otto von Blotto


Posts: 273
Joined: 7/18/2008
Status: offline 		I think I get your point if say I'm in a Mortar squad within a 250 area and other squads like infantry, MG or AT ect are retreating from the same area because of fire either direct or indirect why do I and my squad stay there to face what may be coming when other squads in the same hex are running. ?

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"Personal isn't the same as important"

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Post #: 8
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/28/2013 4:33:16 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Basically yes. I get how the game works. I have a problem with, I think the term is, the suspension of disbelief. In a squad game, some of our teams are inherent to the squad or attached and all move as a platoon in smaller hex areas. You can't do that with this scale which makes me wonder why we even have these teams and company assets. They should be reflected in the firepower of the platoon.

But anyway, I shouldn't have started this thread because it won't be understood. Carry on gentlemen.

(in reply to Otto von Blotto)
Post #: 9
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/28/2013 12:04:15 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Patted on the head and then dismissed, am I? LOL!

Thought I had what you were talking about and I tried to discuss within game scale and developer's intent. I guess you are on a higher plane?

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 10
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/28/2013 1:24:37 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		No Ed, you're a smart guy, I just can't express myself well enough on the internet.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 11
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/28/2013 10:47:35 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		No harm, no foul. J2D
Terry got it more than I?
I thought I had it, but not so much.

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 12
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/29/2013 5:13:09 AM   
USS Wyoming

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/22/2010
Status: offline 		I see his point, but isn't it the tactics rather than the a missing feature in the game? German attack doctrine ideally assigned an infantry platoon (SP6, right?) a sector approximately the size of one game hex (250 yds).

The argument could be that you don't stack your MG platoon's (which were assigned to the company) with your infantry platoon because it is supposed to be a support unit. It does have nearly twice the range of the infantry platoon. Your infantry squad has an MG as part of the squad ( I think that is reflected in the game design, right?.) If your support weapons are finding themselves abandoned because the infantry retreated, then your support weapons were too close.

Of course, I suck at this game and am always getting my butt kicked in it.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 13
RE: Problem with Platoon Level - 4/29/2013 11:25:55 AM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		It was also my thought that it is tactics of the individual player or design by the scenario designer.
Couple that with what the game engine can do within the game scale and you could stretch it a bit.
I still think breaking up units below platoon level may be stretching it a bit too far. Or, having all units effected by direct fire upon another unit in the hex is not where I would go.

I find I learn new things each play and from reading the forums.

I suck too. But, I have been at it longer?

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to USS Wyoming)
Post #: 14
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