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Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 9:24:05 AM

parkas3

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Why do you call DW niche game? In my opinion its niche only by obscurity. For example another 4x Endless Space got over 300K sales. There is no reaction to release of Shadows on games news sites. People just don't know about it.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 9:31:15 AM

Velihopea

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It's the sales strategy chosen for DW (and henceforth it's the perfect strategy and not debatable)

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 10:35:51 AM

rankalee

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Steam has alot to do with the exposure for Endless Space me thinks.. hence the massive sales.

Wonder why DW isnt on there? If it wasnt for spacesector.com I wouldnt even know about this game..

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Post #: 3

RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 10:45:32 AM

Webbco

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There's been loads of posts on DW and its absence from Steam, just search for the keywords in this forum and you'll see just how many...

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 10:54:02 AM

AminMaalouf

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It's not niche, it's geek.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 1:30:48 PM

Tree Dog

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AminMaalouf

It's not niche, it's geek.

"Being geek" doesn't mean anything anymore.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 1:34:38 PM

rwenstrup

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Quick question...which is the better game?

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 1:42:39 PM

AminMaalouf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tree Dog

quote:

ORIGINAL: AminMaalouf

It's not niche, it's geek.

"Being geek" doesn't mean anything anymore.

Lol, I know. It was more a look back into the age of board games.

DW is really a good game, although overhelming and I lack unfortunately the concentration required to play it most of the time. Geek would mean then more passion than actual occupation, a bit like reading a poem. ;)

< Message edited by AminMaalouf -- 5/24/2013 1:50:31 PM >

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 2:49:00 PM

Gargoil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rwenstrup

Quick question...which is the better game?

Don't even go there. DW is a masterpiece. And Endless Space is a piece of....

Its like comparing a Rembrandt to graffitti.

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Post #: 9

RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 3:26:10 PM

robc04_1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rwenstrup

Quick question...which is the better game?

It depends what kind of game you prefer. Endless Space is a more traditional turn-based 4X space strategy game. It pretty much plays by the numbers. Very easy to get into, but maybe a bit bland. I definitely had some fun with it. Distant Worlds is a pausable real time game where it is very customizable as far as what you want to control. It is intriguing to me, but it never really grabbed me when I played it. That said, I haven't given up on it and want to take it for another spin at some point. DW certainly is the more creative and different game between the two. Perhaps Shadows fixes some of the things I didn't like about DW.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 3:36:09 PM

rwenstrup

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Thanks for the replies...I've been more of a strategic and tactical wargamer in the past...but I've been thinking it may be fun to try a space game...

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 4:12:41 PM

Zakath

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rwenstrup

Thanks for the replies...I've been more of a strategic and tactical wargamer in the past...but I've been thinking it may be fun to try a space game...

I can really recommend DW. It's a strategic wargame in space, where you're free to automate as much or as little as you want. Want to design every last ship and control the deployment of your fleets? Go ahead! Want to just control the high level attack targets and ship count? No problem.

Personally I'm too lazy to micromanage everything, so I pick a fleet (named Battle Fleet) and use it as my hammer. The rest of my ships run on auto, works pretty well for me.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 4:29:16 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakath

quote:

ORIGINAL: rwenstrup

Thanks for the replies...I've been more of a strategic and tactical wargamer in the past...but I've been thinking it may be fun to try a space game...

I can really recommend DW. It's a strategic wargame in space, where you're free to automate as much or as little as you want. Want to design every last ship and control the deployment of your fleets? Go ahead! Want to just control the high level attack targets and ship count? No problem.

Personally I'm too lazy to micromanage everything, so I pick a fleet (named Battle Fleet) and use it as my hammer. The rest of my ships run on auto, works pretty well for me.

I concur. To be honest, the only games I've bought for my PC in the last 10 years have been from here at Matrix (I hate the Internet DRM of Steam and the like). DW and WITP:AE do get a lot of playtime.

DW real value is the fact that every game you start is different, due to the way the game generates the galaxy. Its very old school...similar to back in the days of X86 processors and pixelated 2D graphics, but when game play and replay-ability was the only focus. And that is what I like about DW, the game play is great though the graphics are far better than we had in the 80s. I can play a game every day, and no game plays out the same.

The automation is nice, but I do like to manage my fleets and just about everything else. And that is the other advantage DW has...I can control as much or as little of my empires inner workings as I like.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 4:43:51 PM

Ucchedavada

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

DW real value is the fact that every game you start is different, due to the way the game generates the galaxy. Its very old school...similar to back in the days of X86 processors and pixelated 2D graphics, but when game play and replay-ability was the only focus. And that is what I like about DW, the game play is great though the graphics are far better than we had in the 80s. I can play a game every day, and no game plays out the same.

Could you expand on this? How does the map generation in DW differ from other 4X games?

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 14

RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 4:51:59 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ucchedavada

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

DW real value is the fact that every game you start is different, due to the way the game generates the galaxy. Its very old school...similar to back in the days of X86 processors and pixelated 2D graphics, but when game play and replay-ability was the only focus. And that is what I like about DW, the game play is great though the graphics are far better than we had in the 80s. I can play a game every day, and no game plays out the same.

Could you expand on this? How does the map generation in DW differ from other 4X games?

In truth, I don't think it differs much from other 4X games, its 4X games in general that have great replay-ability. The key point I am making is unlike FPS or historical wargames (IE other modern game genres) DW presents you with a different scenario each and every time you start a game. In other words, you can play 100 games and get 100 different outcomes. Not at all unlike the MoO series (one of my all-time favorites)...with the exception that the overpowered Antarans aren't present.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 5:12:40 PM

Buio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: parkas3
Why do you call DW niche game? In my opinion its niche only by obscurity. For example another 4x Endless Space got over 300K sales. There is no reaction to release of Shadows on games news sites. People just don't know about it.

Why does it matter? But anyway, DW is big and complex, has 2d graphics that isn't flashy and costs a lot. It's not mainstream, for everyone and their kids. Games that are somewhat similar might be Paradox grand strategy games. They have a huge following, but still are somewhat niche.

These games cater to a specific audience of fans. If you simplify and put more flashy graphics in them and sell to mainstream audience, niche gamers probably will stop buying them.

(in reply to parkas3)

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 5:21:57 PM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio

quote:

ORIGINAL: parkas3
Why do you call DW niche game? In my opinion its niche only by obscurity. For example another 4x Endless Space got over 300K sales. There is no reaction to release of Shadows on games news sites. People just don't know about it.

Why does it matter? But anyway, DW is big and complex, has 2d graphics that isn't flashy and costs a lot. It's not mainstream, for everyone and their kids. Games that are somewhat similar might be Paradox grand strategy games. They have a huge following, but still are somewhat niche.

These games cater to a specific audience of fans. If you simplify and put more flashy graphics in them and sell to mainstream audience, niche gamers probably will stop buying them.

I think the bigger issue is the "dumbing down" of the game to appeal to more casual gamers (bigger audience).

When that happens, you've pretty much nuked the game and what made it good in the first place.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 5:35:16 PM

Zangi

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This game is probably niche...

But... marketing is nonexistent. I think I've only first heard about DW cause word of mouth on the one forum I frequent. And really, I don't see any talk about DW at game review sites or anywhere else I check-in on...

(in reply to Buio)

Post #: 18

RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 5:43:33 PM

parkas3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio

quote:

ORIGINAL: parkas3
Why do you call DW niche game? In my opinion its niche only by obscurity. For example another 4x Endless Space got over 300K sales. There is no reaction to release of Shadows on games news sites. People just don't know about it.

Why does it matter? But anyway, DW is big and complex, has 2d graphics that isn't flashy and costs a lot. It's not mainstream, for everyone and their kids. Games that are somewhat similar might be Paradox grand strategy games. They have a huge following, but still are somewhat niche.

These games cater to a specific audience of fans. If you simplify and put more flashy graphics in them and sell to mainstream audience, niche gamers probably will stop buying them.

It matters a lot. It means bigger community and more extensive modding. It also means more revenue for Codeforce and faster developement of patches/expansions/DW2. Games like Crusader Kings II, EU sell great despite being complex and pretty ugly. Look at Minecraft, it has very bad graphics and earned millions.
I play very different games, from Dirt 3 to Distant Worlds (including Paradox titles) there are many people like me. Problem is I found DW by accident after researching 4x games, not by reading gaming sites.

(in reply to Buio)

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 5:55:17 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio

quote:

ORIGINAL: parkas3
Why do you call DW niche game? In my opinion its niche only by obscurity. For example another 4x Endless Space got over 300K sales. There is no reaction to release of Shadows on games news sites. People just don't know about it.

Why does it matter? But anyway, DW is big and complex, has 2d graphics that isn't flashy and costs a lot. It's not mainstream, for everyone and their kids. Games that are somewhat similar might be Paradox grand strategy games. They have a huge following, but still are somewhat niche.

These games cater to a specific audience of fans. If you simplify and put more flashy graphics in them and sell to mainstream audience, niche gamers probably will stop buying them.

I think the bigger issue is the "dumbing down" of the game to appeal to more casual gamers (bigger audience).

When that happens, you've pretty much nuked the game and what made it good in the first place.

You hit on a big point there. I like complex games, I like having to actually think about what I am do as opposed to mindlessly mashing buttons. The big appeal of a complex game is that it not only entertains, but it is engaging.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 5:57:08 PM

llanite_slith

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I agree that it's not marketed to a wider audience.

But if CodeForce is happy with the revenue stream of the last 4 years and enjoy making new releases, then who are we to argue?

Boutique pricing for a niche audience that knows and seeks out what they want is one strategy, there's others, but this is theirs and most of Matrix' offerings are the same.

(in reply to parkas3)

Post #: 21

RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 6:29:34 PM

Buio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: parkas3
It matters a lot. It means bigger community and more extensive modding. It also means more revenue for Codeforce and faster developement of patches/expansions/DW2. Games like Crusader Kings II, EU sell great despite being complex and pretty ugly. Look at Minecraft, it has very bad graphics and earned millions.
I play very different games, from Dirt 3 to Distant Worlds (including Paradox titles) there are many people like me. Problem is I found DW by accident after researching 4x games, not by reading gaming sites.

But this game isn't Minecraft, who's huge success is quite a special case. It isn't Paradox grand strategy either, who has been around and gathered a faithful audience since 2000. There are a lot of 4X Space games before and beside DW. You can't just guess it will sell like hotcakes with changes to marketing, put on Steam, lowered price etc.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 6:32:25 PM

jjax

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A question for DW players (I dont want to make a new thread for it).

If I want to get into the series, what expansion packs are must have or can I get a good impression of the game with vanilla DW?

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 6:40:34 PM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

A question for DW players (I dont want to make a new thread for it).

If I want to get into the series, what expansion packs are must have or can I get a good impression of the game with vanilla DW?

At least get the first one, Return of the Shakturi.

It's adds quite bit to the UI.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 6:52:32 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

A question for DW players (I dont want to make a new thread for it).

If I want to get into the series, what expansion packs are must have or can I get a good impression of the game with vanilla DW?

I would suggest playing the original first though, granted the X-packs add a lot, but you'll get a general feel for the game with the original. That said, there were major improvements to the UI with Return of the Shakturi, so getting it might be a good idea as well.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 7:09:23 PM

Osito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ucchedavada

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Not at all unlike the MoO series (one of my all-time favorites)...with the exception that the overpowered Antarans aren't present.

That's cruel, despite the wink.

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 7:17:01 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ucchedavada

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Not at all unlike the MoO series (one of my all-time favorites)...with the exception that the overpowered Antarans aren't present.

That's cruel, despite the wink.

Hmm?

Granted its been a while since I played the MoO games, but I do remember the Antarans being very hard to beat. Am I remembering wrong?

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 7:48:39 PM

Zangi

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What is this 'boutique' stuff? That sounds so half-arsed. You may as well say: "I am too lazy to even bother with talking to/finding reviewers on game review sites or other notables that may give a honest to good play of the game and talk about it/review it."

Marketing Budget: ???
Marketing Effort: Zilch

I suppose it is another can of worms if there is fear of getting a negative review... 'from someone who doesn't understand/can't appreciate it'.

EDIT: Mind you, I don't even know if they tried, but the end result is as we see it, nada.

quote:

ORIGINAL: llanite

I agree that it's not marketed to a wider audience.

But if CodeForce is happy with the revenue stream of the last 4 years and enjoy making new releases, then who are we to argue?

Boutique pricing for a niche audience that knows and seeks out what they want is one strategy, there's others, but this is theirs and most of Matrix' offerings are the same.

< Message edited by Zangi -- 5/24/2013 7:51:33 PM >

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 7:51:04 PM

MayhemMike

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When StarDrive came out, I was watching some reviews on youtube and was about to buy it when someone mentioned that StarDrive is a simpler version of Distant Worlds.

Until that day I was under the impression that I knew every single 4x space-game but apparently not. Even after I knew the name I had a hard time collecting enough information about the game to justify the price.

It's a real shame, DW is such a great game but could need more marketing.

(in reply to parkas3)

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RE: Niche game or undermarketed? - 5/24/2013 8:00:28 PM

Erik Rutins

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Hi guys,

It actually is marketed quite a bit, though I understand that you may not be seeing the marketing. Now that Shadows is released, there will be much more in terms of paid advertising and other marketing to raise awareness. We've made preview builds available to all members of the press and review sites as well as players who've made Let's Play videos, etc. for about six weeks before release, sent out several press releases with batches of screenshots, preview video, features, and so on. We find that paid advertising/marketing is more effective once a release is available - before release we try to raise awareness through other means.

Regards,

- Erik

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