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Any interest in a special first release version of WITP

 
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Any interest in a special first release version of WITP - 1/6/2003 9:55:09 AM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		Before saying anything more I want everyone to understand that this is my own idea and the first time Matrix will hear about it will be when they read this post.

That being said I'd like to find out if there is any interest out there for a special first issue of WITP. What I have in mind is a number of extra items along with the game CD. Of course computers have simplified gaming since the old boardgame days but I still like some of the advantages enjoyed with a board game.
I love having a large map to study. Lets face it a map on a computer screen just isn't like the real thing. And, if you have a map you need counters to mark you units and the enemies. A nice game manual is also a plus. I've always liked ASL in its three ring binder. Changes and notes can be snapped in or out. Since this is basicly becoming a board game with a CD included, it might as well have a nice box to keep everything in.

Now I have no idea about what it costs to produce the various components of a board game, and of course money is the issue. I'm sure Matrix just like any other manufacturer will be happy to sell us anything we want to buy if they can make a resonable profit doing so. So the question is would we be willing to pay the extra dollars for a special first edition of WITP?

After being exposed to UV I suspect tha WITP is going to be one of those landmark qames that will be around for a long time, and it would be nice if the first edition was something special. A real collecters item.

It would be easy enough to test the waters here. The special edition could be limited to preorders, and possibly prepay. A deadline could be set for the orders to be in, and if the interest is to low to justify the special edition, then can it.

I've only owned UV since Oct. 02 but I can't wait until WITP comes out. I'd be thrilled to buy a special edition of WITP.

How about the rest of you?

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan
Post #: 1
- 1/6/2003 10:50:37 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		I think it's a good idea, but keep in mind the retail price is set at $70 US already. I wonder how much people would be willing to spend for a game.

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Post #: 2
- 1/6/2003 11:42:49 AM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		$70 for the CD + $30 (the price of an average board game) for the extras. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
In fact maybe that would be the way to go. Package and sell a seperate but compatable boardgame.

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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Post #: 3
I like it! - 1/6/2003 7:44:37 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Hey I like the idea of a map! Mount it on some corkboard, and then I can stick pins in it to help plan future operations......and with a huge game like WiTP THAT would be a great help. Or maybe Matrix could sell the map separately??????

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Post #: 4
Collectors Edition? - 1/7/2003 8:40:49 PM   
Slick91


Posts: 269
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Status: offline 		Name your price...credit card number is 1234 5678 9012 3456! :D

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Post #: 5
Re: Any interest in a special first release version of ... - 1/7/2003 9:22:09 PM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by demonterico
[B]Before saying anything more I want everyone to understand that this is my own idea and the first time Matrix will hear about it will be when they read this post.

That being said I'd like to find out if there is any interest out there for a special first issue of WITP. What I have in mind is a number of extra items along with the game CD. Of course computers have simplified gaming since the old boardgame days but I still like some of the advantages enjoyed with a board game.
I love having a large map to study. Lets face it a map on a computer screen just isn't like the real thing. And, if you have a map you need counters to mark you units and the enemies. A nice game manual is also a plus. I've always liked ASL in its three ring binder. Changes and notes can be snapped in or out. Since this is basicly becoming a board game with a CD included, it might as well have a nice box to keep everything in.

Now I have no idea about what it costs to produce the various components of a board game, and of course money is the issue. I'm sure Matrix just like any other manufacturer will be happy to sell us anything we want to buy if they can make a resonable profit doing so. So the question is would we be willing to pay the extra dollars for a special first edition of WITP?

After being exposed to UV I suspect tha WITP is going to be one of those landmark qames that will be around for a long time, and it would be nice if the first edition was something special. A real collecters item.

It would be easy enough to test the waters here. The special edition could be limited to preorders, and possibly prepay. A deadline could be set for the orders to be in, and if the interest is to low to justify the special edition, then can it.

I've only owned UV since Oct. 02 but I can't wait until WITP comes out. I'd be thrilled to buy a special edition of WITP.

How about the rest of you? [/B][/QUOTE]

These things, should essentially be included in a game in this price bracket anyway. Before you get on your high horses, yes I know the reasons thier are not included and to some extent agree.

A lot of people, would feel alienated that they should perhaps pay near (completly random guestimate, used just for illustration)$100 dollars in order to purchase what essentially to them should be included in perhaps the cheaper version. In saying that out of principle that may put off prospective buyers altogether.

I for one, would certainly have to think hard about a game purchase of $100, Im not one for taking second best so my only option would be for the say more expensive version.

While in theory, this could be a good idea, it has the potential to open a whole new big "can of worms" which IMO could effect sales of the product vastly.

Now, you may think from my tone , that I may be one of the ones who would strugglr to find the money for this. This is certainly not the case, within reason I could easily. But as a matter of principle and a cut off limit I find hard to justify in order to exceed would make me think twice.

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Post #: 6
- 1/8/2003 12:46:01 AM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone who has posted an answer to my thread so far. I appreciate your comments whether they are pro or con. This is just an idea I had and wanted to throw it out onto the water to see if it will float. This is because I realize my idea might be a little crazy. The price tag for WITP has already created some lively debate. (See mailer22's thread "Will it really cost that much?") But, I've been a wargamer for a long time, and I know that wargamers can get a little crazy about buying something when they really want it. Since I liked the idea I wanted to see if anyone else would like it.
Maybe Raverdave's idea to offer the accessories seperately is a better idea. I don't know. I have no marketing expeience whatever. Any idea that works for both sides of the gaming marketplace, is alright with me. This is, of course, an issue of value, and value is a very personal thing. Everyone defines value differently.
The fact is, this may not even be practical. If it was, some smart merchandiser would already be doing it. Anybody out there know anythig about the cost of designing and printing the commponents of a board game? Which reminds me the price of $100 I quoted earlier is just a number I pulled out of thin air, and has no practical base behind it. I have no idea what such a product might really cost.

More comments please?

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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Post #: 7
Game Prices - 1/8/2003 3:43:10 PM   
walk70

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/7/2003
From: Florida
Status: offline 		This is a good idea, but what I ended up doing with UV is buying a map of the area a blank hex sheet and blank counters. Yep you can still find them. I then ended up buying pins for I found it easier to just post locations directly on the map instead of trying to transpose the map to the hex sheet. It is not as accurate but it did allow me to view the battle lay out and what was where. I am planning to go out and get magnetic tabs so i can identify my units on the map. Right now I have so much on the map I am confusing myself, but the sighting information is hard for me to keep up with otherwise.

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Post #: 8
- 1/9/2003 6:10:20 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I'd pay something for some nice extras.

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Post #: 9
- 1/9/2003 2:37:13 PM   
Travis

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 8/10/2002
From: Hawaii
Status: offline 		Another solution would be to have a separate file on the disk(s) that can be taken to Kinko's and printed there. A large scale print job would probably cost a few bones, but allows those who would like the added map to hang it on the wall. A "binder-ready" format for the user's manual and quick-reference sheats could be added as well. To take this a step further, as bugs and improvements are made, the users manual and charts could be updated on a page-in, page-out process similar to military manuals.

I believe this could be done relatively cheaply for all concerned and yet still provide maps & charts to hang on walls. I can already hear my wife complaining...

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Post #: 10
Right on - 1/9/2003 11:59:30 PM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		Travis
I like the way you think. Great ideas!
Dave

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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Post #: 11
- 1/10/2003 1:59:51 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		I love the idea of purchasable player aids for WitP. Management of this game is going to be a bear (at least for me) and prompted me to write my “Printable Map Suggestion” post. After discussing with Kid the lack of resources to implement this sort of functionality, I started thinking about optional player aids that Matrix could sell – either as a set or a la carte.

Just some quick ideas to keep the discussion going:
Large Gloss Color Map (for grease pencil use). I’m not sure if I’d want hexes on this or not – it probably wouldn’t hurt to have them.

Counters. Could make them unit specific or just generic (i.e. Infantry, Armor, Base force, BB, CV, FB, FGTR, etc.). I’d like

Unit Cards. I could see a playing card for each unit in the game that would have various stats about the unit (i.e. Ships: Speed, AA rating, weapons; LCU: Unit composition, load cost, leader). Could make life easier than using purely counters as you could easily maintain groups of individual units without stacks of counters and, would get more data.

Of course you could use some combination of cards and counters. For instance place a TF21 counter on the map and group some unit cards together as to what composes that TF

Just some freeform ideas there, but if anything is ever available from Matrix along those lines, I’d be interested in purchasing it.

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Post #: 12
Right on Gnome - 1/10/2003 5:49:22 AM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		Great ideas Gnome. I especially like the idea for the unit cards. one side could have a nice profile picture of the unit, the other could have all the important stats. I'm getting all excited just thinking about it.

Ok gang keep those cards and letters coming,
Dave

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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Post #: 13
Isn't it obvious? - 1/11/2003 10:13:16 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		Your looking for a low-tech way to manage a hi-tech game. To me that idea is flawed. Whats needed is the ability to plan better "in-game".. Maybe a "Planning Room" area with several copies of the map you can draw all over with the mouse.. clipboards to click on to make notes, reports by advisors on expected resistance levels and naval,air,ground-superiority status, etc. etc.
And more importantely.. I think what you really want, whether you realize it or not.. Is for Matrix Games to still be around to support and provide updates for the game you are going to love probably no matter what... Which means since your already going to buy it regardless of what they do or dont do or what price it is... that whats really important is whats needed to get OTHER people to buy it... And that's to me what is so very lacking in UV and WITP... All this focus on over-done historical accuracy and not enough on the interface (right-clicking etc.) I try so hard to get other non-fanactics to try the game and its simply too much. I struggled through learning UV cuz lm a die-hard wargamer like most others who play it.. But there is too much left out of the manual, the tutorial is downright the worst I've ever seen.. And the interface which may well be the best so far, is still lacking given the scope and complexity of the game... So I say...forget about making you and me any happier with a game we already love....Spend the effort on making it a better game that OTHERS will want to play... Thanks for listening...

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Post #: 14
good ideas - 1/14/2003 1:38:33 AM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		Hi Veldor,
Thanks for your input. I'm happy to get everyones suggestions here whether they support my ideas or not. Actually I pretty much agree with what your saying. As a new guy with UV, I too have been suffering the pain of learning to operate the game. I'm just starting to feel that I'm getting competent enough to try a serious campaign against the AI. Up till now its been practice games. Your ideas for having an in game work area are okay with me. I do feel it is difficult in UV to access some information, to organize it, and to store information for later retrieval. But I don't feel your high tech and my low tech ideas are incompatable. Having both options available would be just great. In my case looking at a map on a moniter screen just isn't the same as having a large copy I can mount on the wall. Its just easier on my old eyes.
Now in fairness to Matrix I want to say that I'm very happy with the interest they've shown in this area. Already they have adapted some of these ideas to UV. The new manuals folder they added to the last upgrade is great. It has a poster map which I believe can be printed out at Kinkos. This are also an 8.5x11 map and OBs. Just what I wanted. Not that I deserve any credit for these items as I believe they were already done by others over on Spookies UV fan site. Unless I'm mistaken Pasternaki and Rowlf were involved with these projects. Thanks for some great stuff guys.
The last point I want to discuss is in regard to your comments about getting new people interested in UV and later WITP. Thats a tough one, and if there was an easy answer I'm sure Matrix along with every other game maker, as well as figure manufactures, and rules authors, would like to know it. Its my feeling that only die hard gamers are willing to commit the time and interest required to play the most complex games. I love wargames but if UV were a board game there is no way I would play it. It would be to big and complicated for me in that medium. I know guys who will spend hours everyday painting lead figures but will not touch a computer game. I also know guys who are always writing a new set of rules. They are usually ready with a new rule set before I've even learned the old one. This hobby has many facets and I think most gamers tend to prefer certain areas of the hobby over others. The time commitment alone for a game like UV is enough to stop many gamers from becoming involved. Not that your comments are out of line. The easier it is for a player to interface with a game the more likely it is that it will be played. But since I have absolutely no expertise in that area I'm leaving it to others to work for those types of changes. There is also the issue of choice I see many games out there I might like to have but will never have the time to play. My hobby room is already stuffed with boxes of opened and unopened computer games, boardgames, books, figures, paint, models, ect. ect. much of which hasn't seen the light of day for years. Right now I'm just happy That Matrix is willing to continue working to products that may be for a small market, and to have the new UV maps and OOBs. Thanks Matrix.
Dave

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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Post #: 15
- 1/14/2003 4:33:10 AM   
sadsack

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/10/2003
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		Gentleman i would be happy with just a map of the pacific with the objectives on it. When ya start adding those other things the it cost's us the consumer. I for 1 think that pc games are high enuf.



Sadsack

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Post #: 16
- 1/14/2003 8:15:50 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		Judging by the high cost of manufacturing board games these days, I would guess that this suggestion would be prohibitively expensive.

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Post #: 17
- 1/14/2003 10:47:37 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		If you read more carefully people wanted these suggestions as [I]options/supplements[/I] hence if you don't want them you wouldn't have to pay.

As to adding these ideas into the game electronically, that would be great and has already been suggested in another thread, however, Matrix feels as though implementing them would be cost ineffective.

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Post #: 18
- 1/15/2003 5:58:20 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		[B]If you read more carefully people wanted these suggestions as options/supplements hence if you don't want them you wouldn't have to pay.[/B]

I realize this, however whether it is an option or not Matrix still has to pay to get the materials printed. The less they print, the more it will cost per unit.

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Post #: 19
- 1/16/2003 8:30:21 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Bulls eye, Snigbert. This is all nice to fantasize about, but Matrix isn't going to spend a bunch of money to have 100 super deluxe laminated maps printed and then stick them in an on-line catalog at $20 each.

I'm not being combative, but if you think this stuff is a good idea, why don't you develop these items, have them printed, and sell them on-line yourself? I would bet that, if the quality is high enough, Matrix might even market them on their web site.

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Post #: 20
- 1/24/2003 5:25:43 AM   
marc420

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 9/23/2002
From: Terrapin Station
Status: offline 		Speaking only for myself, I'm already in sticker shock from looking at that $70 price tag.

While I'm really looking forward to this game, that price tag is already going to make me think real hard about whether to buy it. I probably will, but its going to hurt. And it will be very much subject to delay until I can find a month who's budget can afford that big of a hit.

So I really don't see myself buying any expensive special edition versions.

Best wishes to those that would however.

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Post #: 21
- 1/24/2003 5:54:55 AM   
Jeremy Pritchard

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline 		The reason we are paying more for this game is because it is not made by a computer software supergiant. This is a great thing.

If Matrix Games was backed by a big corporation (thereby resources would be greater, and end cost less, thereby the pricetag would be lower), then they would be under pressure to release the game before it was ready (like most games presently are). They will also be pressured to add features that will wreck the game (like what happened to the game GI Combat, where unrealistic features were pressured on the developers by those in the market division due to a percieved demand by the community).

The cost will be higher, but you will inevitably end up with something that was worth your money. I have bought many games that either were too buggy, or so uninteresting that I regret their purchase, even though they cost significantly less then $70.00 US (which means that this will be a $100.00 game for me).

Spending $70.00 for a high quality product, in the face of other industries pushing off cheaper, yet complete garbage is a no-brainer for me. Sure, I could buy a few copies of CC for what I would pay for WitP, but each dollar extra I spend on WitP will be hours of more enjoyable experiences then fighting with an equal or cheaper set of CC games.

However, I see no sense in a special edition, other then to feed some people's lack of patience (which usually causes games to be rushed, and end up to be a complete waste of purchase). Some of us have been waiting 10 years for a sequal to PW, we can wait a few more months.

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Post #: 22
- 1/24/2003 6:39:31 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeremy Pritchard
[B]

If Matrix Games was backed by a big corporation (thereby resources would be greater, and end cost less, thereby the pricetag would be lower), then they would be under pressure to release the game before it was ready (like most games presently are). They will also be pressured to add features that will wreck the game (like what happened to the game GI Combat, where unrealistic features were pressured on the developers by those in the market division due to a percieved demand by the community).

[/B][/QUOTE]

All true, except even the smaller companies release games before they are ready. Just for different reasons, like complete lack of cash flow.

Whats ultimately most important is a good underlying ability to determine the source of bugs and errors in the game.. New features can then be added in a modular approach, correcting errors and bugs as you go while still assuring overall integrity of the product.

Sounds easy and complicated at the same time, and is both. The world is full of brilliant and highly-skilled programmers but seems to be at a loss for people who can manage the process of putting it all together...

Thus why a lot of small software developers fail to ever make a decent product... Some of those other things only come with experience in the industry...

BUT they are mostly simple things.. And sometimes its the small guy that will stick to the simple principles of software design whereas the big guys shove all that aside during screams of "bigger, bigger, better, more, faster, faster".....

So I guess Im agreeing and not agreeing at the same time... Large and Small software companies each face different challenges and each have their own advantages and disadvantages... Ultimately its the priorities a companies chooses that determines its success, large or small..

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Post #: 23
- 1/24/2003 10:24:02 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]The reason we are paying more for this game is because it is not made by a computer software supergiant. [/QUOTE]

False. The reason it will be so expensive is that it is being sold to a limited number of buyers (niche market), thus smaller units being sold, thus individual unit being more expensive overall. This would hold true regardless of who was making it - assuming they were trying to make a profit and not selling below cost.

This is not a game for mass appeal (a good thing).

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Post #: 24
- 1/26/2003 2:29:45 AM   
docpaul

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/17/2002
Status: offline 		If you throw in an Admiral Halsey Bobblehead doll I'll go for it myself!!:D
Doc

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Post #: 25
- 1/26/2003 3:03:33 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		There is another possibility about the pricing. The Matrix staff might have been sitting around and someone said "Our diehard grognard fans are going to buy this game whatever we price it at. What's the maximum we can charge for this product before we start scaring away casual customers."

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Post #: 26
- 1/26/2003 9:10:23 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

We really do not expect a lot of sales for this game. We are doing it for the diehard gamer who loves the Pacific and for our self. In order to put the make sure we recover our cost and expect smaller sales we needed charge a higher.

David

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Post #: 27
- 1/26/2003 1:33:32 PM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		someone's been working too hard. :)

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Post #: 28
- 1/28/2003 11:36:57 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		David is the hardest working man in show business. Take it easy on him. :)

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"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the

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Post #: 29
- 1/30/2003 5:49:25 AM   
showboat1


Posts: 1885
Joined: 7/28/2000
From: Atoka, TN
Status: offline 		You could count me in!

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