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G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 2:10:41 AM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

Hi.

I'm playing the grand campaign, either scenario 1 or six I forget now, I've started to build the G4M2e but appear to lacking the Okha's to go with them. Game date is August 44. I do not see the MXY7 OHKA listed in the devices lists.

I read some previous posts that stated they might be missing from some scenarios, although I am playing the latest patch of the game? Does anyone know if they are available in the main campaign and at what date the become available, historically it was 1945?

Regards

Neil.

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I might not be right.
Hell I am probaby wrong.
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Post #: 1

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 3:08:54 AM

Quixote

Posts: 773
Joined: 8/14/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Some of the answers you're looking for can be found in the link below.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3254031&key=okha

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Post #: 2

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 4:21:16 AM

nashvillen

Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline

The stock scenarios don't produce the Okhas. You have very expensive recon aircraft now...

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Post #: 3

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 6:21:38 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

The stock scenarios don't produce the Okhas. You have very expensive recon aircraft now...

Good to know as I'm planning my production for my first game... disappointing, though. The Okhas have very nice penetration and effect values.

(in reply to nashvillen)

Post #: 4

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 7:35:09 AM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

The stock scenarios don't produce the Okhas. You have very expensive recon aircraft now...

Good to know as I'm planning my production for my first game... disappointing, though. The Okhas have very nice penetration and effect values.

There are updated scenarios in forum.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064
Replace original scenarios files with them and You will be able to build Okhas.

Database can be upgraded to new and old games but in that second case it can created funny situations with data base. But if i remember correctly Michaelm mention that it is rather safe for game but You will do it on own responsibility

New database have hundreds of fixes.
Okha fix, ASW fix (Super E`s etc,), flak fix etc.

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Post #: 5

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 3:26:47 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Viberpol is using Okhas in our stock scen #2 game. But I think he may have just sent a file to MichaelM and asked him to fix it for him. I suggest sending a PM to Viberpol and ask him. He will know the details and how to use them.

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Post #: 6

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 3:57:03 PM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

Thanks for the replies gentlmen, I'll give the updated files ago, its a AI game so no major issues if it gets messed up slightly.

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Post #: 7

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/3/2013 7:51:58 PM

Symon

Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline

The reason people don't have Okhas is because, even though it is a "device", it needs to be produced like a "plane". The original scenario designers missed that one. But getting Okhas IS A NO-BRAINER. ALL YOU NEED DO IS ADD AN OKHA FACTORY AT OSAKA, LIKE THIS:

I. Some of AndyMac's updated scenarios have this; some don't. It's important to look at the editor because Andy's are in the restricted range of 1-25, so can't be edited and saved in their original slot number. Andy's scen02 does have it, Andy's scen01 does not.

II. Babes does not have this, but Babes scenarios are outside the restricted range and can be simply edited to include it.

I hope we are done with Okhas, now.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Symon -- 6/3/2013 7:53:30 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/4/2013 1:10:54 PM

czert2

Posts: 508
Joined: 2/10/2013
Status: offline

ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

(in reply to Symon)

Post #: 9

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/4/2013 4:27:39 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2

ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

the factory can be wherever you want

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Post #: 10

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/5/2013 4:20:50 PM

hkbhsi

Posts: 96
Joined: 4/22/2007
From: Rome, Italy
Status: offline

Be aware that there are 2 different versions of Ohka:

- device nr.197 (Ohka 11) used by the G4M2e Betty;

- device nr.1885 (Ohka 22) used by the P1Y3 Frances.

Regards.

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 11

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/6/2013 1:15:12 AM

panzer cat

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/2/2011
From: occupied Virginia
Status: offline

Can I add the okha to an existing game using the editor? I'm playing stock scen 1 in a pbem. I opened the editor for the first time and the fix seems simple.

(in reply to Symon)

Post #: 12

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/6/2013 1:39:21 AM

Symon

Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: panzer cat
Can I add the okha to an existing game using the editor? I'm playing stock scen 1 in a pbem. I opened the editor for the first time and the fix seems simple.

No you cam't. Scen 1 is an official scenario in the restricted range. It cannot be edited. Thank your lucky stars, because if you could tweak your database, your pbem oponent could get stuff that would turn you green.

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Post #: 13

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/6/2013 1:51:45 AM

panzer cat

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/2/2011
From: occupied Virginia
Status: offline

Oh well, no okha's for me. Thanks Symon.

(in reply to Symon)

Post #: 14

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/10/2013 5:19:12 PM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

Well I have OHKA's now, 110 in pool to be precise, manly as my G4M2e steadfastly refuse to fly, OHKA's are show on the plane data screen... in 12/44, now have 18 on Saipan with plenty of support, supply's and a nice level seven A/F.

Oh the joys.

Standard Betty's P1Y's B6N2 are all happily flying into hails of VT fused flak.

Regards

Neil.

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Post #: 15

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/11/2013 1:16:10 PM

viberpol

Posts: 838
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Viberpol is using Okhas in our stock scen #2 game. But I think he may have just sent a file to MichaelM and asked him to fix it for him. I suggest sending a PM to Viberpol and ask him. He will know the details and how to use them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2
ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

the factory can be wherever you want

Well... I think it's not true. IMHO no factory is needed.
I have no factory and the Ohkas are built and I use them.
I think it wasn't a problem with a factory (as I say, I have none)
but with the editor mistake and device not set to "buildable".

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
The MYX is not set to build. From memory, this was a defect in the original scenario files.
It is fixed in my scenario files which are newer.

Check out this thread for more details:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3254031&mpage=1&key=�

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
Currently, as far as I know, the scenario files have been fixed.
You could apply the updated files within the game, but ALL scenario data changes would be applied. Depending on the change this can sometimes cause funny results (eg sub split tubes).
[The factory may have been removed due to limited device slots being fully used with industry/engine/plane factories. I recall it was there originally.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit
Well I have OHKA's now, 110 in pool to be precise, manly as my G4M2e steadfastly refuse to fly, OHKA's are show on the plane data screen... in 12/44, now have 18 on Saipan with plenty of support, supply's and a nice level seven A/F.
Oh the joys.

Yup. Been there, seen it.

I've had plenty of missiles in the pool but had to wait a month or two for them to see in action. Really don't know why.

It helped a bit when I changed squadron leaders and picked those with higher leadership/inspiration/aggressiveness ratings.
After that I've seen Betties/Ohkas only twice attacking lightly CAPped targets (more interesting it was a long range raid of 14 hexes or so...).
They tend to refuse to attack heavy CAP and especially when not escorted.

Note: it's not true they will not face CAP. G4M2e can be shot down just like the normal Betty. Below is one of the combat reports.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Marcus Island at 123,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
G4M2e Betty x 20
N1K2-J George x 4

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 16
F6F-5 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
AKA Alamance
LST-737
DE Ulvert M. Moore
AKA Towner
LST-738
DE Mack
DE Tabberer
LST-745, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
15 x G4M2e Betty launching missiles from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 1 x MXY7 Ohka 11
5 x G4M2e Betty launching missiles from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 1 x MXY7 Ohka 11

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Marcus Island at 123,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M2e Betty x 13

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 3
F6F-5 Hellcat x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DE French
AKA Cepheus
APA Burleigh
APA Bayfield, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x G4M2e Betty launching missiles from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 1 x MXY7 Ohka 11

CAP engaged:
VF-37 with FM-2 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 21000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
VF-86 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
VRF-7F with FM-2 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes

< Message edited by viberpol -- 6/11/2013 1:39:26 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/12/2013 8:38:08 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

If a device is produced by a factory then it doesn't matter where the factory is. The "product" always goes into the pool. This is how it is Viber. And my post that you were quoting was answering the question ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

So if Okhas are "produced" by a factory, then it doesn't matter where the factory is. It can be in Osaka, in Tokyo, in Shanghai or at the North Pole as long as you own the base.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 6/12/2013 8:41:18 AM >

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Post #: 17

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/12/2013 10:23:33 AM

viberpol

Posts: 838
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If a device is produced by a factory then it doesn't matter where the factory is. The "product" always goes into the pool. This is how it is Viber. And my post that you were quoting was answering the question ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

So if Okhas are "produced" by a factory, then it doesn't matter where the factory is. It can be in Osaka, in Tokyo, in Shanghai or at the North Pole as long as you own the base.

All I am trying to say, that no factory is needed for Ohkas to be produced.
I am playing old PBEM (started 3 years ago, so with old data) as Japan,
and I have no factory. And I do have Ohkas. Comprende?
No factory means no factory. It doesn't mean "a factory in Osaka, Tokyo, or North Pole".
Now you're going to convince me I do have a factory but I don't know it?

Maybe that was a problem fixed in never (or older?) scenarios by a shortcut -- id. est. adding a factory. Some scenarios use this shortcut (have a factory), some don't.
But with those that don't it doesn't mean the players are left without Ohkas.
Vide: my scenario. Again, I have no factory and I have Ohkas.
Do you know what scenario (and how old) Bobthehatchit and panzer cat are playing?

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Post #: 18

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/12/2013 12:01:41 PM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Viberpol is using Okhas in our stock scen #2 game. But I think he may have just sent a file to MichaelM and asked him to fix it for him. I suggest sending a PM to Viberpol and ask him. He will know the details and how to use them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2
ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

the factory can be wherever you want

Well... I think it's not true. IMHO no factory is needed.
I have no factory and the Ohkas are built and I use them.
I think it wasn't a problem with a factory (as I say, I have none)
but with the editor mistake and device not set to "buildable".

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
The MYX is not set to build. From memory, this was a defect in the original scenario files.
It is fixed in my scenario files which are newer.

Check out this thread for more details:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3254031&mpage=1&key=�

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
Currently, as far as I know, the scenario files have been fixed.
You could apply the updated files within the game, but ALL scenario data changes would be applied. Depending on the change this can sometimes cause funny results (eg sub split tubes).
[The factory may have been removed due to limited device slots being fully used with industry/engine/plane factories. I recall it was there originally.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit
Well I have OHKA's now, 110 in pool to be precise, manly as my G4M2e steadfastly refuse to fly, OHKA's are show on the plane data screen... in 12/44, now have 18 on Saipan with plenty of support, supply's and a nice level seven A/F.
Oh the joys.

Yup. Been there, seen it.
I've had plenty of missiles in the pool but had to wait a month or two for them to see in action. Really don't know why.

It helped a bit when I changed squadron leaders and picked those with higher leadership/inspiration/aggressiveness ratings.
After that I've seen Betties/Ohkas only twice attacking lightly CAPped targets (more interesting it was a long range raid of 14 hexes or so...).
They tend to refuse to attack heavy CAP and especially when not escorted.

Note: it's not true they will not face CAP. G4M2e can be shot down just like the normal Betty. Below is one of the combat reports.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Marcus Island at 123,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
G4M2e Betty x 20
N1K2-J George x 4

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 16
F6F-5 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
AKA Alamance
LST-737
DE Ulvert M. Moore
AKA Towner
LST-738
DE Mack
DE Tabberer
LST-745, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
15 x G4M2e Betty launching missiles from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 1 x MXY7 Ohka 11
5 x G4M2e Betty launching missiles from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 1 x MXY7 Ohka 11

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Marcus Island at 123,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M2e Betty x 13

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 3
F6F-5 Hellcat x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DE French
AKA Cepheus
APA Burleigh
APA Bayfield, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x G4M2e Betty launching missiles from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 1 x MXY7 Ohka 11

CAP engaged:
VF-37 with FM-2 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 21000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
VF-86 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
VRF-7F with FM-2 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000 , scrambling fighters to 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes

Hi

A leader change appears to have done the trick, they are flying now, went for leader with high air skills and very aggressive.

Regards

Neil.

_____________________________

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Post #: 19

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/12/2013 3:25:24 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If a device is produced by a factory then it doesn't matter where the factory is. The "product" always goes into the pool. This is how it is Viber. And my post that you were quoting was answering the question ohaka factory must be placed at osaka or any other place will be enough ?

So if Okhas are "produced" by a factory, then it doesn't matter where the factory is. It can be in Osaka, in Tokyo, in Shanghai or at the North Pole as long as you own the base.

All I am trying to say, that no factory is needed for Ohkas to be produced.
I am playing old PBEM (started 3 years ago, so with old data) as Japan,
and I have no factory. And I do have Ohkas. Comprende?
No factory means no factory. It doesn't mean "a factory in Osaka, Tokyo, or North Pole".
Now you're going to convince me I do have a factory but I don't know it?

Maybe that was a problem fixed in never (or older?) scenarios by a shortcut -- id. est. adding a factory. Some scenarios use this shortcut (have a factory), some don't.
But with those that don't it doesn't mean the players are left without Ohkas.
Vide: my scenario. Again, I have no factory and I have Ohkas.
Do you know what scenario (and how old) Bobthehatchit and panzer cat are playing?

no!

If you reread my post then you might notice that I am saying this: if a factory is needed then it just doesn't matter where the factory is.

_____________________________

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Post #: 20

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/12/2013 6:14:13 PM

Symon

Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline

Oh, crikey, this Ohka stuff is getting wierd.

In 2010, Babes fixed the Ohkas by making them buildable.
In 2011, AndyMac fixed the Ohkas by adding a production plant 'somewhere' (he put it in Osaka 'cause that's where it was).
In the meantime, Michaelm has done 'some things' to tweak Ohkas. Don't know what and don't care much.

I KNOW Andy's fix works. Viberpol KNOWS the Babes fix works. There's probably something under the radar from Michaelm, too.

Just do one or more of the above. It's not hard. Try both.

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la libert�! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 21

RE: G4M2e & Okha - 6/12/2013 11:26:04 PM

viberpol

Posts: 838
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Oh, crikey, this Ohka stuff is getting wierd.

In 2010, Babes fixed the Ohkas by making them buildable.
In 2011, AndyMac fixed the Ohkas by adding a production plant 'somewhere' (he put it in Osaka 'cause that's where it was).
In the meantime, Michaelm has done 'some things' to tweak Ohkas. Don't know what and don't care much.

I KNOW Andy's fix works. Viberpol KNOWS the Babes fix works. There's probably something under the radar from Michaelm, too.

Just do one or more of the above. It's not hard. Try both.

Well, my understanding is that putting a factory was/is simply more straightforward.
If you have a factory you know the Ohka works (will be produced) from the very beginning
instead of waiting 3 years to learn that (that you have the right or wrong scenario files) the hard way.

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Post #: 22