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questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 4:30:57 PM

geofflambert

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I see that A6M2 squadrons keep arriving all the way to '45. I don't want to keep building that model past maybe early '43. Do I have to at least have some A6M2s in the pool for those squadrons to arrive, or will they upgrade to a later model then arrive, or might they arrive with zero (pun intended) planes and I can upgrade them then?

If not I suppose I could make sure I have them available in the pools and in training squadrons, and that should be easy enough. Is that a viable plan?

Also if I just have one or two in the pool will those squadrons appear?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 5:21:14 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Is that a viable plan?

Ummm....dood? You just outlined 5 different 'plans'. Which was it you wanted an opinion about viability?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 5:34:31 PM

viberpol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I see that A6M2 squadrons keep arriving all the way to '45. I don't want to keep building that model past maybe early '43. Do I have to at least have some A6M2s in the pool for those squadrons to arrive, or will they upgrade to a later model then arrive, or might they arrive with zero (pun intended) planes and I can upgrade them then?

If not I suppose I could make sure I have them available in the pools and in training squadrons, and that should be easy enough. Is that a viable plan?

Also if I just have one or two in the pool will those squadrons appear?

The squadrons will arrive with exactly the number of the ready planes defined in the database. When the number of planes in a new squadron is "0" then there is no problem.
They will arrive unless the base of arrival is in enemy hands -- then the squadron will be delayed and will arrive in major base (meaning generally: Tokyo)

You don't have to have those planes in the pool. You don't need to produce them before.
I've got plenty of kami squadrons arriving with K5Y1 Willows and I never bothered to produce that plane. After arrival you can upgrade the squadron (full, or composed of say only 2 planes) according to the PDU setting (on/off) and the upgrade path for the particular frame.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 5:35:00 PM

geofflambert

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Only the one in the preceding sentence.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 5:47:47 PM

geofflambert

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Thanks for that viberpol.

I'll keep asking questions in this thread and this may go a few weeks.

Here's onw now:

(This doesn't mean I'm planning to do this, just curious at this point) If you set up more than one R&D factory for the same model plane, does that speed up availability date, and if so, in the same way expanding one R&D factory?

I haven't figured this out yet, how do you know what the production rate will be if you let a R&D factory convert?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 5:56:58 PM

seille

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It is better to have 2x30 facs than 1x60.

Once fully repaired the 2x30 produce 2x1 R&D point per day while the 1x60 R&D fac produce 1 point.
(the same they would produce with 1x30 size). There is no advantag ein R&D facs above size 30. At least not from my point of view.

If a fully repaired R&D fac goes into production it will produce what their size is (if enough engines are there). No decrease/increase in size or damage to the factory).

A 1x30 Ki44-IIa R&D fac will produce about 30 Tojos per month once it converts to a production site.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 6:09:22 PM

geofflambert

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Thanks, seille

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 6:29:32 PM

geofflambert

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I'm using Hanzberger's wire chart and for the A6M5d-S he shows no special equipment for night fighting. What makes her a good night fighter? He shows HO systems on some of the NFs, but these don't show when you look at the in game specs, only electronics do. Do these Zeros lack any sort of optical equipment for night? You can send any fighter up at night and you might shoot something down. I expect these fighters perform during the day as well as 5cs so they wouldn't be bad to have but having the R&D factory working on these all the way to '44 (when you may have no carriers anyway) when they could be working on or producing something else might not make sense.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 6:33:09 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

It is better to have 2x30 facs than 1x60.

Once fully repaired the 2x30 produce 2x1 R&D point per day while the 1x60 R&D fac produce 1 point.
(the same they would produce with 1x30 size). There is no advantag ein R&D facs above size 30. At least not from my point of view.

If a fully repaired R&D fac goes into production it will produce what their size is (if enough engines are there). No decrease/increase in size or damage to the factory).

A 1x30 Ki44-IIa R&D fac will produce about 30 Tojos per month once it converts to a production site.

Seille's got this. I'll further the cause by adding that the goal is to get to 100 research points / month for max. efficiency. So, 3x30 is pretty close to optimum. If you want to do that with 4x25 factories, I suppose that's feasible as well, but then you have to use a fourth (scarce) R&D factory if you use this approach. Hence the more commonplace reliance on size 30 factories.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 6:43:26 PM

geofflambert

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Thanks CB

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 6:46:17 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm using Hanzberger's wire chart and for the A6M5d-S he shows no special equipment for night fighting.

I'm going from memory (from work) about this now, lizard, but doesn't the A6M5d-S have a significantly upgunned armament for night fighting? Is this the one with the "UP" facing 30mm suite or is that one of the J1N1s / Dinahs?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 6:57:49 PM

geofflambert

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The 5d-S has : 2 7.7 type 89 MG
3 20mm type 92 cannon for a total GV of 16

the 5c has : 2 20mm type 92 canon
3 13.2 type 3 MG for a total GV of 17

So it appears not, but it compares better with the 5b with higher altitude performance and range, and a 5b's GV = 13. So in that case you could say yes.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:00:32 PM

Sieppo

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double message deleted

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 6/12/2013 7:01:53 PM >

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:01:05 PM

Sieppo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

..or will they upgrade to a later model then arrive

Good question but I would assume they would arrive as the upgraded version since the factories will upgrade also automatically if not set otherwise. Then again I really would not like my carrier capable A6M2s to arrive as Sen Bakus...

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 6/12/2013 7:02:09 PM >

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:01:23 PM

geofflambert

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The 5b has one 7.7, one 13.2 and two 2mms. The 5d-S is faster than either the 5b or 5c.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:01:25 PM

seille

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This is the A6M5d-S

No idea if the UP armament (schraege Musik for the germans here) makes a difference.
I do not produce this fighter in my PBEM. I doubt any nightfighters can stop the allies. At least i got this feeling from several AARs.

The question is what the impact of the board radar is here.
You have 3 different.
H-6
N-6
FD-2

The Zeros NF has no radar and no armor. But you can have this plane aboard a CV for. Do you need this ?

Attachment (1)

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:01:58 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm using Hanzberger's wire chart and for the A6M5d-S he shows no special equipment for night fighting.

I'm going from memory (from work) about this now, lizard, but doesn't the A6M5d-S have a significantly upgunned armament for night fighting? Is this the one with the "UP" facing 30mm suite or is that one of the J1N1s / Dinahs?

I wondered what "UP" meant. I was like "is it just a gun that fires upwards?". Takes care of that question.

Are (Japanese; some of the Allied ones look like they have radar and such) night fighters even worth it? What makes them better than just using a regular fighter on night time CAP? I hope the answer to this can help the lizard also ;).

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 6/12/2013 7:02:19 PM >

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:02:16 PM

seille

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It is faster than the A6M5c because it has no armor.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:04:30 PM

geofflambert

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It looks to me that you should put 5b or c sqds. on night duty and use that factory for something else sooner.

They look fast enough unless your carriers are being attacked by B-29s at night.

Has anyone attacked CVs before at night and what with, and what were the circumstances?

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 6/12/2013 7:09:19 PM >

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:08:25 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Are (Japanese; some of the Allied ones look like they have radar and such) night fighters even worth it? What makes them better than just using a regular fighter on night time CAP? I hope the answer to this can help the lizard also ;).

Depends on who you ask. Many say that night bombing and the night fighter CAP is not WAD in the game. Night fighters rarely / never (?) intercept bombers, so the prospects of shooting them down in any realistic numbers is unlikely.

Others say that *any* CAP fighter over a base 'breaks' up or diminishes the efficacy of a bomber strike by at least some modest amount. Therefore *any* CAP fighter (day or night) on night CAP over a base simulates the harrying of the bomber group, even if it doesn't actually shoot down a bomber.

I'm not sure what to believe or whether my personal experiences are reflective of the groupthink. I also don't know if game version (beta / last official patch) is meaningful, as there have been some 'tweaks' to night bombing along the way.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:09:53 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

It is faster than the A6M5c because it has no armor.

Ah. In that case, since B-17 defensive armament will still have its Uber-efficacy, I'd not willingly expose an unarmored aircraft to that (borked) code.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:12:46 PM

geofflambert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I wondered what "UP" meant. I was like "is it just a gun that fires upwards?". Takes care of that question.

Are (Japanese; some of the Allied ones look like they have radar and such) night fighters even worth it? What makes them better than just using a regular fighter on night time CAP? I hope the answer to this can help the lizard also ;).

Hadn't noticed that, but that would mean they are angled up so the fighter slides in underneath (and back a bit) and fires at the underbelly. Maybe easier to spot the bomber against the stars?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:19:35 PM

seille

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I have 3 nightfighter R&D projects in my PBEM (just in case they work....).

All three have 2 engines and 2 of 3 have armor.
2 of 3 have radar (The J1N1-S hasn�t, but their upgrade J1N1-Sa has)

The questions is what i should look for first for a nightfighter.
Speed ? Armament ? Range ? Armor ? Radar ?

Hard to find the right ones here.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 7:41:22 PM

geofflambert

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I would think radar first and speed first as well. Gotta be fast if they're going to catch B-29s. Altitude would be if they fly high at night, but I wouldn't send them in over 15k if it were me. I think fire bombing works well at night.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 9:52:40 PM

hkbhsi

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If your night fighters don't have radar they are close to useless and will not shoot down any heavy bomber. Having said that, even a modest number of useless fighters on night cap will disrupt the bombers enough to reduce the damage done to your airfields and factories.

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/12/2013 11:20:28 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hkbhsi

If your night fighters don't have radar they are close to useless and will not shoot down any heavy bomber. Having said that, even a modest number of useless fighters on night cap will disrupt the bombers enough to reduce the damage done to your airfields and factories.

This is not good advice.

Night fighters are dedicated to night missions and suffer much less than conventional day fighters flying at night. I'm nearly in 8/44 but have been using them for 3-4 months and they don't do a lot but do much more than any other platform at night. None have radar, and I'm sure they'll improve a bit when they do.

My Irving NF routinely kill B-29s at about 1-2 per mission (with a few more to ops losses if it's a long distance) and there is a bit less damage to the facilities than if using day fighters in a night role, and considerably less (usually) than if no fighters were present.

I've had Nicks, Franks and Tony KAI decimated at night by B-29s while the Irvings lose very few planes and do kill the incoming bombers. I've had 15 Franks taken out in one night (and didn't do much to disrupt anything) but I've never lost more than 2 Irvings. Let me know if you'd like to see evidence or just check the past three months of my AAR.

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/12/2013 11:21:52 PM >

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/13/2013 3:44:20 AM

Stvitus2002

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quote:

I've had Nicks, Franks and Tony KAI decimated at night by B-29s

I have noticed this too. Nick model-A's get shot to pieces by night bombers
for very few kills. The few Irvings i had (Endo section),in contrast,
did very well despite a lack of radar. I am guessing that the air-to-air model
gives a bonus to interceptors that are labeled "night fighter" as opposed
to "fighter bomber" (Nick,A-C)for night combat.

WO 0/0

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/13/2013 1:50:56 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: hkbhsi

If your night fighters don't have radar they are close to useless and will not shoot down any heavy bomber. Having said that, even a modest number of useless fighters on night cap will disrupt the bombers enough to reduce the damage done to your airfields and factories.

This is not good advice.

Night fighters are dedicated to night missions and suffer much less than conventional day fighters flying at night. I'm nearly in 8/44 but have been using them for 3-4 months and they don't do a lot but do much more than any other platform at night. None have radar, and I'm sure they'll improve a bit when they do.

My Irving NF routinely kill B-29s at about 1-2 per mission (with a few more to ops losses if it's a long distance) and there is a bit less damage to the facilities than if using day fighters in a night role, and considerably less (usually) than if no fighters were present.

I've had Nicks, Franks and Tony KAI decimated at night by B-29s while the Irvings lose very few planes and do kill the incoming bombers. I've had 15 Franks taken out in one night (and didn't do much to disrupt anything) but I've never lost more than 2 Irvings. Let me know if you'd like to see evidence or just check the past three months of my AAR.

@ Obvert,

J1N1-C? What's your primary airframe?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/14/2013 9:06:27 PM

geofflambert

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I just noticed that Hanzberger's wire chart for Japanese aircraft shows the Tojos using HA-34 engines. They use HA-35s, should someone advise him of this?

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RE: questions related to Japanese production - 6/14/2013 9:24:14 PM

cohimbra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I just noticed that Hanzberger's wire chart for Japanese aircraft shows the Tojos using HA-34 engines. They use HA-35s, should someone advise him of this?

The Tojos (first version that you have at the beginning in Canton, IIa, IIb, IIc) mounts
the Nakajima Ha-34. No doubt about that...I play DaBabes but in the stock is the same.
Regards, powerful green monster!