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Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 12:34:08 PM

wosung

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Saw this in quite few games, like: Played some 120 years (empire, age of shadows with normal, or below average pirate setting and normal aggression). What I often was confronted with were pirate factions with over a hundred ships and over 6000 firepower.

WAD?

Post #: 1

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 1:54:23 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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From: My Own Private Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Saw this in quite few games, like: Played some 120 years (empire, age of shadows with normal, or below average pirate setting and normal aggression). What I often was confronted with were pirate factions with over a hundred ships and over 6000 firepower.

WAD?

To be honest it has fast become the best set of games so far IMHO the pirates are really aggressive, have plenty of ships and are a real challenge, playing on prewarp always used to be a bit a slow at the start, now it it is so much more involved, you need to know how to navigate the tech tree, how to increase population, basically you need to know how to manipulate your empire and then some to keep anywhere near surviving, I have over 16 pirate factions, 9 are right near my home system and nearly all of them have at least 20-30+ ships and are constantly trying to raid or destroy my mines and colonies, have had to change the focus of research three times so far, now I have got a hold on the defense the raiders are getting crushed more or less as they land and the mines are more geared up to defend, helped with the increased defense of the newly designed escorts, frigates and destroyers so I can now concentrate more on offense and start designing ships to counter attack and thin there numbers out a bit, if and when I manage that the other empires on the map should start becoming a problem. Bring it on

Darkspire

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RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 3:03:57 PM

wosung

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Sure, it can be fun and challenging. Those planet bunkers and (anti-)boarding techs help.

But my point is that pirate setting ... granularity went overboard: Even when I wanna play with *few* pirates, I'll soon get *few* death star pirate factions with 100+ ships and 5k+ firepower. Those don't differ much from aggressive bug/insectoid empires.

< Message edited by wosung -- 6/16/2013 4:35:24 PM >

(in reply to Darkspire)

Post #: 3

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 4:01:50 PM

Shark7

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Keep in mind the pirates are also made up of the races in game. Some races don't become pirates, but the more aggressive ones (IE bugs) certainly do. In other words, the pirates play by the same rules as their races empires would, with a few perks from being pirates.

Also, if you read the patch notes, pirates that lose their bases/constructors will join other pirate factions, strengthening the faction joined.

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RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 5:22:28 PM

MarQan

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Well, I played my first Pre-Warp Empire game as a Human on Very Hard difficulty, no pirate respawn..
and I had no problem overcoming the pirates. Enhanced Armor (High-Density Alloys) put the dot on the i.

The main problem is, that pirates are almost impossible to destroy, even if I own them in battles, they always have a construction ship, or colony, or a spaceport. I am even searching with Long-range Scanner equipped exploration ships, but so far I couldn't destroy a single pirate faction. I haven't lost a single battle against pirates for 10 years.
I also made a Revenge-class destroyer squad equipped with Hyper-Deny, Beam Weapons, Assault Pods and Fast Initiation Hyper-drives to round up any pirate mining stations, construction ships or smugglers.
Research cost is 999K, overall I'm the most advanced with low-medium lvl technologies.

Am I missing something?

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 5

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 5:29:23 PM

wosung

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Yeah, but as it is now your very first colony - apart from your home planet - triggers waves of pirate attacks including ground forces up to 250k troops.

So best thing is, going in laager mode on your home planet, research heavily (esp. economics, bunkers, ground defense, weapons of your choice) and then build some really powerful big fleets simultaniously going for pirate space ports. And only then start colonizing. It's quite telling that, as it is now, other empires also are not capable of colonizing the way it has been before. A few 100 years into play and all they have is 2 to 3 colonies - if any at all.

I don't think this is *bad*. But sometimes I'd like to play non-tower defense modes. Please let me do so.

< Message edited by wosung -- 6/16/2013 5:31:40 PM >

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 6

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 8:39:05 PM

paShadoWn

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Non tower defence mode? lol. Autodesigned ships are so worthless they bother you only in huge numbers. With infinite respawn. This is the devs workaround their inability to make decent autodesign. If you like serious opposition go play SotS multiplayer.

my game start looks like that:
- i build mining bases
- i watch pirate waves suiciding on my mining bases
- i laugh
- i build 20 railgun ships and go exterminate nearby pirate bases
- i build some heavy railgun ships with supports and transports and go exterminate everyone else

Seriously, one properly designed mining base can exterminate pirate ships until its shields go down. By that time your task force arrives and exterminates whats left. The only exception is where you face looted bullshit. It can kill base, yea, being 3k size and high-end tech. 20 railgun frigates own it though.

(in reply to wosung)

Post #: 7

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 9:55:57 PM

wosung

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paShadoWn

Non tower defence mode? lol. Autodesigned ships are so worthless they bother you only in huge numbers. With infinite respawn. This is the devs workaround their inability to make decent autodesign. If you like serious opposition go play SotS multiplayer.

my game start looks like that:
- i build mining bases
- i watch pirate waves suiciding on my mining bases
- i laugh
- i build 20 railgun ships and go exterminate nearby pirate bases
- i build some heavy railgun ships with supports and transports and go exterminate everyone else

Seriously, one properly designed mining base can exterminate pirate ships until its shields go down. By that time your task force arrives and exterminates whats left. The only exception is where you face looted bullshit. It can kill base, yea, being 3k size and high-end tech. 20 railgun frigates own it though.

Would you play with autodesigned ships yourself you'd have your *serious opposition*. Or just try some different tactics besides your *master concept*. No need to refer to some other game in multiplayer mode.

200 years of play, pirates with 200 ships. 6k firepower each faction, pirate landing parties with some 250k troops. All this with normal aggression, normal/few pirats.

See, this is not a pissing contest. *LOL* I just want to have the full range of options & settings back. B/c I think those are an important part why DW is a really good game. Or am I supposed to first kill all pirates and then to colonize everytime? Different folks, different tastes.

Best regards

(in reply to paShadoWn)

Post #: 8

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 10:14:43 PM

paShadoWn

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Well this isnt the first time i face it: when i mention the game is too easy likes of you suggest me to nerf myself. I have advice for you as well: abstain from marriage to not contaminate the genepool. Because self-mutilation as method to increase "challange" is in my not-so-humble opinion insanity. You bring your full might to bear or you get beaten by weaklings and poorly written scripts.

I have two fine examples for you in that regard, esteemed 'friend':
- The League of Legends: every time i challenge them they nuke me to elo hell with curses, mind reading and control and once even reality warp. They do not nerf themselves to increase challange playing vs me. "I will hold nothing back" callsign of Zhao Yun from DW6
- XCOM Enemy Unknown from Firaxis: their Normal is so easy that you never lose a trooper on ironman if you not an idiot, and Classic hands you your arse on the platter. Just in case, theres also Impossible. Thats a variability for all player levels.

About no need, theres no need to give advices on improvement of this game. I do it for fun.

(in reply to wosung)

Post #: 9

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 10:20:04 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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From: My Own Private Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Yeah, but as it is now your very first colony - apart from your home planet - triggers waves of pirate attacks including ground forces up to 250k troops.

So best thing is, going in laager mode on your home planet, research heavily (esp. economics, bunkers, ground defense, weapons of your choice) and then build some really powerful big fleets simultaniously going for pirate space ports. And only then start colonizing. It's quite telling that, as it is now, other empires also are not capable of colonizing the way it has been before. A few 100 years into play and all they have is 2 to 3 colonies - if any at all.

I don't think this is *bad*. But sometimes I'd like to play non-tower defense modes. Please let me do so.

The other empires in my game are colonizing, now about 60 odd years in and most of them are at 6-10 planets, 2 are on 15+. Just a thought but did you pay for protection at game start? I never bother no matter how many problems they cause, I would rather just ride the storm. Reason I ask is I have noticed that quite a few pirate factions that are in other empires sphere of influence do seem to have there numbers increasing by the month, can only presume they are paying protection and the pirates are using the cash to increase there strength, I have wiped out all the factions anywhere near my systems and any factions near my sphere of influence are now down to 1-5 ships due to my constant attack and defend stance.

Darkspire

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RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/16/2013 10:39:52 PM

paShadoWn

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Joined: 6/10/2013
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Yep its the protection. I tried to automate the treaties and it immediately paid to all known pirates. But not only, it is also **** autodesigns which allow pirates to raid up lots of stuff from auto empires. You wont believe a junk empires design on pre-warp start.

< Message edited by paShadoWn -- 6/16/2013 10:41:22 PM >

(in reply to Darkspire)

Post #: 11

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 8:46:17 AM

wosung

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Joined: 7/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Yeah, but as it is now your very first colony - apart from your home planet - triggers waves of pirate attacks including ground forces up to 250k troops.

So best thing is, going in laager mode on your home planet, research heavily (esp. economics, bunkers, ground defense, weapons of your choice) and then build some really powerful big fleets simultaniously going for pirate space ports. And only then start colonizing. It's quite telling that, as it is now, other empires also are not capable of colonizing the way it has been before. A few 100 years into play and all they have is 2 to 3 colonies - if any at all.

I don't think this is *bad*. But sometimes I'd like to play non-tower defense modes. Please let me do so.

The other empires in my game are colonizing, now about 60 odd years in and most of them are at 6-10 planets, 2 are on 15+. Just a thought but did you pay for protection at game start? I never bother no matter how many problems they cause, I would rather just ride the storm. Reason I ask is I have noticed that quite a few pirate factions that are in other empires sphere of influence do seem to have there numbers increasing by the month, can only presume they are paying protection and the pirates are using the cash to increase there strength, I have wiped out all the factions anywhere near my systems and any factions near my sphere of influence are now down to 1-5 ships due to my constant attack and defend stance.

Darkspire

Yup, usually pay for protection to the first two pirate factions until I have about twice their firepower, bunkers, (anti-)boarding tech. Then I do attack.

Never pay for tech, colonies and other stuff pirates offer to me.

BTW, first pirate protection offers seems to be triggered by having built first space port or ships. No matter how near they are set. One of the first things with my first space port I do is building 20 frigates. But pirates have better ships at the very beginning.

(in reply to Darkspire)

Post #: 12

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 8:58:09 AM

wosung

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paShadoWn

Well this isnt the first time i face it: when i mention the game is too easy likes of you suggest me to nerf myself. I have advice for you as well: abstain from marriage to not contaminate the genepool. Because self-mutilation as method to increase "challange" is in my not-so-humble opinion insanity. You bring your full might to bear or you get beaten by weaklings and poorly written scripts.

I have two fine examples for you in that regard, esteemed 'friend':
- The League of Legends: every time i challenge them they nuke me to elo hell with curses, mind reading and control and once even reality warp. They do not nerf themselves to increase challange playing vs me. "I will hold nothing back" callsign of Zhao Yun from DW6
- XCOM Enemy Unknown from Firaxis: their Normal is so easy that you never lose a trooper on ironman if you not an idiot, and Classic hands you your arse on the platter. Just in case, theres also Impossible. Thats a variability for all player levels.

About no need, theres no need to give advices on improvement of this game. I do it for fun.

You think you have to be married for making babies?! With the *right* genepool?!
Dude, you definitely need some RL experience.

(in reply to paShadoWn)

Post #: 13

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 9:17:33 AM

FerretStyle

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline

Loading .05 game into .06 resulted in my empire getting spammed by pirates nonstop to enter into protection agreements. The annoying thing is that there is about 25 pirate empires in my game. The weird thing is that they are only charging between 10-30 credits per month.

I also noticed that in .05 I was losing a lot of explorers to boarding compared to other games. Not sure if that is because of changes in the patch or because of difference in map size, though.

(in reply to wosung)

Post #: 14

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 4:22:38 PM

paShadoWn

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Well thats how it was in olden times: marriage, carefully arranged based on lineages and current family status. In proper islam countries it is still so. Corrupt, dissolute degenerates are only abundant in Satan-controlled regions like US.

(in reply to wosung)

Post #: 15

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 5:06:21 PM

Cauldyth

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The mind boggles.

(in reply to paShadoWn)

Post #: 16

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 5:20:19 PM

ricanuck

Posts: 162
Joined: 5/24/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paShadoWn

Well thats how it was in olden times: marriage, carefully arranged based on lineages and current family status. In proper islam countries it is still so. Corrupt, dissolute degenerates are only abundant in Satan-controlled regions like US.

Then please go back to the proper islam country you came from. Our northamerican gen pool is happily contaminated by now after years of efforts, we do not need your type to purify it.

(in reply to paShadoWn)

Post #: 17

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 7:21:21 PM

Bebop Cola

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/9/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth

The mind boggles.

I second that.

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Post #: 18

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 7:21:23 PM

Leon Shirow

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I had several pirate factions with over 1000 ships and over 30,000 firepower. Problem was that they were small ships with average 30 firepower per ship and would fall apart to area weapons.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 7:26:53 PM

Cauldyth

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They seem a little upset with you... -1959 relations!

< Message edited by Cauldyth -- 6/17/2013 7:30:00 PM >

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Post #: 20

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/17/2013 7:31:03 PM

Bebop Cola

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Joined: 5/9/2012
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Pirates appear to over-produce escorts insofar as they have enough freighters(or few enough smuggling missions) to keep their resource shuffling smooth or are successful raiding resources from others. And by over-produce, I mean they just keep cranking out ships even to the point of completely ignoring their supply chain. I've seen pirate factions bog down entirely with upwards of 100 ships queued to build at their space ports all for lack of resources. Then again, maybe it's just a problem with smuggler pirates.

Of course, the simplest solution is to blast them and a fresh new pirate faction will spawn in, but it seems like AI pirate factions don't manage their economy effectively. Their freighters seem to ignore their own mines in favor of smuggling missions(there needs to be a cap of some sort on the percentage of freighters detailed to smuggling missions versus their own economic needs). Additionally, they don't seem to have any sort of limit on the number of ships they'll queue and try to build. I would think there should be some manner of check on their economic status to see if they can both afford the ship and have the resources for it. Extended delays from lack of resources should key the pirate to cancel queued items and refrain from re-queuing them until the resource shortfall has been addressed either through new mines and freighters, raiding, or planetary capture.

(in reply to Leon Shirow)

Post #: 21

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/18/2013 7:34:24 AM

MarQan

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Above -3000 they're practically in love.

(in reply to Cauldyth)

Post #: 22

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/18/2013 9:15:33 PM

oldones

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They don't have to pay upkeep for military ships.. so they can just build military ships if there is available money.
So, paying them just 20000 credits means 20 escort ships. Paying 100000 means 100 escort ships. So if you buy anything from them, you will face a huge amount of raiding ships very soon.
Protection agreement is OK, but buying something expensive will make the universe into chaos.

But pirates' firepower is just a number. They are usually made up of escorts, so you can send big and fast ships to grind them.

I suppose the scanners won't work because they might have stealth devices in later days,

(in reply to MarQan)

Post #: 23

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/18/2013 9:19:15 PM

Bebop Cola

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Where did you hear that they don't have to pay ship maintenance?

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RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/19/2013 12:18:57 PM

oldones

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bebop Cola

Where did you hear that they don't have to pay ship maintenance?

You can figure it out by just playing as a pirate. For pirates, military ship doesn't cost any maintenance, but civilian ships and stations costs maintenance.(You have to build freighters, mining ships on the spaceport manually.)
But they can't usually be overpowered because empires can easily blow up pirates mining bases and they will run short of resources soon.

(in reply to Bebop Cola)

Post #: 25

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/24/2013 6:55:21 PM

wosung

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1.9.07

Still hordes of pirate ships constantly attacking the same one or two planet(s) nearest to them. And getting through every 4th or 5th times. In every ground fight all buildings are destroyed. No matter what setting, numerical and technological odds, how many defensive bases, etc.

This is getting boring. And not much fun.

(in reply to oldones)

Post #: 26

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/26/2013 2:46:54 PM

Seath

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Well i dont think its a bug... i learned from one game that u should not set the Number of pirates below normal. Otherwise some of the pirate factions become unbeatable cause they can expand freely. If you play with many pirate faktions and not to many indipendend aliens the chances to have pirate factions with over 100 ships are very low. cause many pirates mean they also fight each other over controll of colonies and they also are killing each others bases in the prewarp age.
I had a game on varied clusters where it took me 40 years to just get warp... after that i had to realize: Oh **** i also have the biggest pirat faction right next to me which was in control of my hole cluster and had 4k ships O.o

(in reply to wosung)

Post #: 27

RE: Over-Pimped pirates in 1.9.05/06? - 6/26/2013 3:07:17 PM

Lucian

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Well there's something wrong with the settings then. The term "few pirates" would - to most people - imply that you wont have as many problems with pirates compared to higher settings. I think it needs to be changed so that it makes more sense and is more intuitive.

Few pirates should give you an easier time with pirates, not harder and many pirates should give you a harder time, not easier.