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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/13/2013 4:06:42 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I don't know what you did to get that color, but at least to me it looks like the brown for the deck is too thin and the gray plastic is showing through.

One thing aircraft modelers do is color the recessed panel lines with a dark color, sometimes black, before painting the camo colors. After painting the dark shows through the paint a bit and highlights the panel lines. IMO some people over do it, but very visible panel lines are the fashion these days.

I would think a similar technique would work on a ship's deck. I would try it with a dark brown pen, then paint over it with a lighter brown. The darker lines will show through the top coat a bit and you should get some contrast on your deck. I'm not 100% sure it will work, but it might be worth a try.

Bill

Try using what's called an ink, or a wash. You can salvage (insofar as it needs salvaging*) the deck fairly easily. Basically, an ink or wash is a very runny paint but with powerful coloring effect to it. It will sink into the recesses of the plastic. Some will be left on top, which is why after inking this you should either use a technique called drybrushing or highlighting.

To do that, just dab your brush in the paint pot as usual, then wipe anywhere from about half to 80% of the paint off onto a paper towel (this is so that you can be sure to only get the areas you wish to highlight). Then lightly brush this on top of the area you wish highlighted. I've found that while it may take some time to do so, brushing at a 90' angle to the ridge you wish to highlight is best.

This works best with water color paints. If you are using enamel, I've forgotten most of what I learned as a young lad due to the more difficult logistics involved with enamel paints.

Source: 15 or so years of miniature & wargames painting

Bill's method is also a good idea, but one that I think would be best when starting from completely unpainted plastic.

*Don't get me wrong, it's not terrible... And really, it's your model. You're the ultimate judge on how it should look.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 2/13/2013 4:07:17 AM >

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/13/2013 6:00:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I would think a similar technique would work on a ship's deck. I would try it with a dark brown pen, then paint over it with a lighter brown. The darker lines will show through the top coat a bit and you should get some contrast on your deck. I'm not 100% sure it will work, but it might be worth a try.

Bill

I'm not sure on Japanese destroyers, but battleships and cruisers used brass strips to secure the linoleum decks. The raised lines running across your deck represent those strips I believe. Something you might want to try. Also, Tamiya has a paint available specifically for Japanese linoleum decks. Just some more info for you U2.

Thanks guys,

the raised lines running across are indeed those strips. at this tiny scale airbushing that would be impossible to do. I've seen others not paint them and I did the same. I've seen it done in 1/350 though and I might give it a shot in 1/700 with my next build.

Now to the brown deck. Yes, I have that Tamiya color and I airbrushed it with that color. The hing however is that I cut corners masking the deck. I first painted the deck and then had to mask it when I wanted to airbrush other parts of the deck with an IJN grey. Instead of using masking tape I wanted to save time and used a Vallejo masking liquid. I did not cover 100% so I have tiny spots of grey over my linoleumm deck. I can't airbrush that over due to the spots being in difficult places riskingpainting over parts that were suppose to be grey. Remember this scale is tiny. I decided to haind paint over the grey pots with the linoleum color. This is not a good idea since airbrushing and handpainting the same Tamiya color is uite different and does not produce the same result. The hand painted over grey spots became much draker than the rest of the airbushed linoleum deck. I tried to cover that up by weathering the deck. So it's not actually grey shoing through. It's weathered

Taking a photo at night with a flash might not show what I am seeing. It's not perfect but I tried to cut corners and was punished for it. I will continue even thoguh I am not happy since I will learn from my mistakes.

Thanks for you input guys.

< Message edited by U2 -- 2/13/2013 6:01:45 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/13/2013 6:01:31 AM

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�dited

< Message edited by U2 -- 2/13/2013 6:02:06 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/13/2013 3:39:34 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: U2
Taking a photo at night with a flash might not show what I am seeing.

I was wondering if maybe some of the effect we see in that photo wasn't from a flash. Keep plugging away, I'd love to see a picture when it's finished.

Back towards the OT somewhat, I've got maybe 8 or a dozen 1/700 ships built. I got started when I found my uncle's model of the Bismarck from the 1960s. My mother said he liked to put firecrackers in them and blow them up out in the gutter after it rained

. That's the only one that survived him.

So before I started wargaming, I built models. I have the Iowa (disclaimer: I'm from there! The state capitol building has a pretty wicked scale model of it about 10 feet long, I wish they also had one of the Des Moines), Massachusetts, Yorktown (CV-5), Suzuya (I've always loved the IJN CA designs, not to mention they were extremely potent ships), Jintsu, a generic Gato-class (I pretend it's Wahoo), and I believe either a Fletcher or Akizuki - I just remember that I have a DD model.

If I could think of a way to properly display them (maybe I'll make a glass-topped coffee table depicting a battle in Ironbottom Sound?!), I'd bring them out of storage and paint them up.

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Post #: 34

RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/13/2013 4:37:04 PM

Mundy

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A good curio cabinet would work. One of the first things I bought after we got our house.

Ed-

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Post #: 35

RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/18/2013 8:40:29 PM

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Latest update. The hull completely weathered and decals applied. Again I made some mistakes that I will not redo but one must continue to learn from them. I do realise that this angle does not show the weathering that much.

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Post #: 36

RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/18/2013 11:22:35 PM

wdolson

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Nice work.

I was just thinking that you might be able to save the deck paint job with some dry brushed black. Don't do much, just a very light dusting of black will make the deck look a bit grungier and help distract the eye from the gray over spray. I haven't done it with ship models, but I've done it with aircraft interiors and it can help cover up a multitude of mistakes.

The whole idea of weathering models may have started by somebody who made a painting mistake and wanted to cover it up. That's why I weathered my first model.

Bill

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Post #: 37

RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/22/2013 10:19:47 AM

wdolson

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I've been very lucky on Ebay over the last week. First I came across a 3 kit deal that included a 1/700 Nimitz for a song, then I found a deal on 107 1/700 kits for a great price. There are some duplicates with what I already have in that collection, but I can sell the ones I don't want.

I don't normally go for post WWII subjects, but an idea hit me about the Nimitz. I can build it as a what if from the Final Countdown. Paint it in 1942 colors and the planes in 1942 colors.

The first thing that struck me was how huge the Nimitz is. The picture included is the Musashi hull next to the Nimitz.

Bill

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/22/2013 10:20:42 AM

wdolson

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Here they are again with the deck sitting on top of the Nimitz hull.

Bill

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/23/2013 3:37:11 AM

PaxMondo

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CVN's are BIG.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/23/2013 4:29:06 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I've been very lucky on Ebay over the last week. First I came across a 3 kit deal that included a 1/700 Nimitz for a song, then I found a deal on 107 1/700 kits for a great price. There are some duplicates with what I already have in that collection, but I can sell the ones I don't want.

I don't normally go for post WWII subjects, but an idea hit me about the Nimitz. I can build it as a what if from the Final Countdown. Paint it in 1942 colors and the planes in 1942 colors.

The first thing that struck me was how huge the Nimitz is. The picture included is the Musashi hull next to the Nimitz.

Bill

My boys and I are starting to do 1/700 models. Could you email me your duplicates and we can talk price? THANKS!

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/23/2013 10:21:18 PM

nashvillen

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You guys got me inspired to continue on my KB. Here is the flight deck of the Shokaku with some Kates on board. Please note that the Kates don't have their insignias or been flat coated yet, so they are a little shiny. What I am happy with is how the flight deck is looking.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/24/2013 12:09:37 AM

wdolson

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Did the landing gear break on one of those? It looks like it bellied in.

Looking good.

Bill

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/24/2013 1:03:08 AM

nashvillen

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Molding issue, one didn't have the landing gear set and one only had one. I will modified them with some etched brass landing gear before using them on the model.

Thanks for the compliment.

I just finished putting the base coat on the rest of the 202 early war Kates, Vals, and Zeros I have to put on all six carriers. Not that I have figured out how to do the wood decks on the CVs. I need to get the Kirishima, Chikuma, Tone, Abukuma, Urakaze, Isokaze, Tanikaze, Hamakaze, Shiranuhi, Arare, and Kasumi. I have the Hiei and the Kagero.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/24/2013 1:33:09 AM

Mundy

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My project, the Dragon 1/350 USS Benson. It's boxed as the 1945 version. The boxcover shows what's probably a Measure 31, but I wanted to do her in a 21 or 22. When she transferred to the Pacific, she was repainted in such. I'll probably do MS 21, due to my natural dislike of Haze Gray, though I do like MS 22. With what's in the box, I can probably make her correct for either version. They did a Gleaves class by swapping round stacks for the squared off ones.

This kit's good enough, where I'm not really going to replace any of the weapons included. I got a photo-etch set to supplement the one with the kit.

Ed-

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/25/2013 2:51:47 AM

CarnageINC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

You guys got me inspired to continue on my KB. Here is the flight deck of the Shokaku with some Kates on board. Please note that the Kates don't have their insignias or been flat coated yet, so they are a little shiny. What I am happy with is how the flight deck is looking.

Your doing KB! Do tell what all you have in the way of ships

I love ship models, but for some reason or another never got into building them as a kid and now don't have the time or space.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 2/25/2013 3:02:39 AM

nashvillen

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Thank you very much.

I have all three divisions. That is the Soyru in the back. I am using them to experiment with. My plan is to build the whole KB on 7 DEC 41. The biggest issue is making them match what they were in 1941. It is involving some some modifications...

I will post more pictures as I progress. I have been painting a lot of aircraft this weekend. Still have cowlings and cockpits to do along with decals.

There is some touch up to do as you can see in the above picture from over painting, but I wasn't trying to be neat in making the effect of the wood decking.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/24/2013 9:04:49 PM

Lokasenna

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I was going to start a new thread, but I figured bringing this back up after only 4 months is probably OK, right?

In any case, I'm about to start on mine but am planning to paint as I go. What do people use for paints? Outside of the mini wargaming scene, I have no idea anymore. Do people use Testors (or Model Master) water colors? Vallejo? Reaper? I think I'm partial to Vallejo due to them coming in droppers, allowing for easier mixing, but... all input welcome and desired.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/24/2013 9:15:45 PM

nashvillen

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I use whatever I can find locally, which is Model Master right now. I also use a mixture of Acrylic and Oil based depending on the colors available. My Kates above are oils, while the deck and the wash of the carrier are water based.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/24/2013 9:17:27 PM

nashvillen

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BTW, I have been so busy this spring/summer I have put off my ships until I anticipate more time being available this fall. They are safely and securely stored in a box in my work room.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/24/2013 9:18:53 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

I use whatever I can find locally, which is Model Master right now. I also use a mixture of Acrylic and Oil based depending on the colors available. My Kates above are oils, while the deck and the wash of the carrier are water based.

I much prefer working with a water base, as I have a tendency to need to "water down" old paints to keep them in working order...

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/24/2013 11:58:44 PM

wdolson

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I use enamels for air brushing. I tried using water based paint in the air brush and the results were poor. No matter what I did to thin the paint it was like air brushing with mud.

With the enamels I thin with acetone which makes the paint stick very well to the model as well as accelerates drying. For hand painting I use whatever I have in the color I need. I find water based and enamel spread the same with a hand brush.

As for brand, some people swear by certain brands. I have tried most of the major brands and found them all about equal in the way they spread and the way they last (which is pretty much forever). Each region of the world has different brands dominant. Gunze Sanyo and Tamiya are the two most widely available in Asia, but they are expensive imports in the US. Humbrol dominates in the UK and parts of Europe.

In the US, Testors various brands have pretty much monopolized the market at this point. I used to prefer Pactra when I was a kid, but now they are a division of Testors too. Probably 90% of my paint is one of the Testors brands. As I said above, it stands up to the other major brands just fine. There are a few colors that are hard to find through Testors like that weird metallic blue the Japanese used for wheel wells on their planes, but generally if the exact color isn't available, it's easy to mix something close to match.

Then there is also the concept of scaling your color for lighting conditions. Essentially you want to lighten up darker colors to make them look more realistic under indoor lighting. Black absorbs all the light indoors, but look at pictures of black things in the sun, they are really dark gray in full sunlight. I usually mix a little bit of white into my black when painting black things.

I will also exaggerate the contrast between colors sometimes. For example, many German aircraft have two shades of green camo on top. Out in the sun you can see the difference, but if you paint them the exact color and take them indoors you probably won't see two greens anymore because indoor lighting is much less intense.

Tricks learned from my father who is both a modeler and was a color photographer back when most people were still doing black and white.

Bill

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 12:47:18 AM

John 3rd

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My boys and I have completed the Titanic and a DD. Thanks to Mr. Olson, we now have a whole FLEET to build. They are very excited!

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 1:03:43 AM

Justus2

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Working on a model of the Titanic this past weekend. After seeing a bunch of models on my last couple museum trips I got inspired, and asked for a few models for Father's day. Have a USS Enterprise (CV-6) and a TBF waiting, but since my wife picked out the Titanic model, I was smart enough to prioritize the order.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 3:25:41 AM

nashvillen

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The key to air brushing water based paints is using CO2 as your "air" source. You can get a CO2 bottle from your local soda company distribution center and they can also fill it for you. Then attach a regulator and set the pressure for what you are doing and have at it. No mud, no spots. Nice clean consistent paint.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 3:34:43 AM

wdolson

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That's kind of a pain when I can get all the compressed air I want for just the price of the electricity. I would probably have to go into at least Vancouver to get a CO2 tank filled.

Good to know though.

Bill

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 4:06:18 AM

nashvillen

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The tank I bought 10 years ago is still holding great pressure. Of course I am not using it every day, but it is there when I need it. The price was less than a really good compressor and it is better quality.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 2:43:36 PM

Lokasenna

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I have folks in my circle that airbrush with water colors. I think they may use specially thinned versions for the airbrush, or else have to water it down with a boatload (!) of water. I will have to check.

They use the kind of airbrushes with the attached compressor rather than C02 tanks. I'll get one, someday, when I get out from under this mountain of student debt.

@John 3rd: so you're the one who got all the ships I wanted!

Lucky.

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/25/2013 3:10:42 PM

RevRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

As you wish

That last picture reminds me of Sam and I pouring over the original Squad Leader rules, attack results sheets, visibility rules, etc., etc., etc., spread out all over the dining room table with a bottle of Turkey 101 to provide moral support for the troops! We started on France '40 in 1975, WSIM at the same time, Star Fleet Battles (Anyone ever succeeded in a high energy warp turn 2 hexes astern of a Klingon D10 in a Starfleet CCA with double charged photons and a full spread of phasers?)

I built several models with my son, but they have not survived various pets, pre-teen on the floor sea battles, and several moves.

Lovely work. I guess I ought to tangle with my huge model of the USS Constitution!

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RE: Building 1/700 - 1/350 ships - 6/30/2013 11:40:07 PM

wdolson

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You know you have a large ship kit when...

(This is not my picture I found it on the web)

Bill