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Problems with the engagement of my SU

 
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Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 10:24:12 AM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		I have big problems with the engagement of my SU in the combats.

This one is the last exemple:




How to explain this problem ???

< Message edited by schascha -- 7/4/2013 10:34:04 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 11:22:47 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I seem to recall that there is a maximum of 3 SUs committed per hex in a normal combat. This can increase in urban terrain.

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 2
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 11:35:42 AM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		Thx for your reply but it's not a possible explanation because I do another combat before this one against the same hex and from tow hex:



With no corps, no SU attached, 22 SU engaged !!!!

I can't understand


< Message edited by schascha -- 7/4/2013 12:16:08 PM >

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 3
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 1:56:54 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		There is a maximum number of SUs that can be committed by a single HQ per combat but I am too lazy to look it up right now.

However the really significant point is that the commitment of SUs requires die rolls based upon the attributes of the HQ leader controlling the SUs. There have been threads detailing investigations into which attributes but I can't find them anymore. All I remember is that the process is similar to but still different from reserve activation


Die rolls everywhere affect everything is the answer to most questions about this game

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 4
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 2:12:28 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Yeah, but SUs attached to CUs should be commited automatically, and be processed with priority over randomly assigned SUs from HQ, which should come into combat only if there are "free slots" left, after counting all SUs from CUs.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 5
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 2:17:04 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		15.4 in the manual clearly states that:
quote:

Support units that are directly attached to combat units will automatically be added to the battle.

and
quote:

Support units attached to headquarters units must pass a series of checks in order to be committed to a battle. (...) The maximum number of attached support units that can be commitment by headquarters units to a single battle is 6, with the exception where the defending combat units are in a light urban or heavy urban hex, where the maximum is 18.


There should be no limit on SUs attached to CUs and they all should take part in battle. Perhaps it's only display issue?

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 6
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 3:44:54 PM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		By contrast, the list of the SU engaged in my first combat is very impressive:




(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 7
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 4:07:41 PM   
Balou


Posts: 841
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

There is a maximum number of SUs that can be committed by a single HQ per combat but I am too lazy to look it up right now.

However the really significant point is that the commitment of SUs requires die rolls based upon the attributes of the HQ leader controlling the SUs. There have been threads detailing investigations into which attributes but I can't find them anymore. All I remember is that the process is similar to but still different from reserve activation


Die rolls everywhere affect everything is the answer to most questions about this game


AFAIK it's leader initiative rating. What I don't remember is whether distance of the parent HHQ matters.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 8
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 6:04:43 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

15.4 in the manual clearly states that:
quote:

Support units that are directly attached to combat units will automatically be added to the battle.

and
quote:

Support units attached to headquarters units must pass a series of checks in order to be committed to a battle. (...) The maximum number of attached support units that can be commitment by headquarters units to a single battle is 6, with the exception where the defending combat units are in a light urban or heavy urban hex, where the maximum is 18.


There should be no limit on SUs attached to CUs and they all should take part in battle. Perhaps it's only display issue?


Didn't know that direct attachment didn't need checks; learn something every day. Thanks morvael

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 9
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 6:17:11 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Possibly V1.04.28 #3 is the cause.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 10
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/4/2013 6:41:50 PM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		this one:

quote:

New Rule- Added a fire penalty in combat when there is a large number of attacking units. The force value of the attacking side is calculated using the following values for each non-support, non-artillery division unit attacking:
Corps 15
Division 9
Brigade 5 (unless the brigade has less than 2000 men in which case it is 3)
Regiment 3
Once the force value exceeds 28 there is a chance that elements will not get to fire during combat. Artillery elements are much less effected (only impacted at closer ranges in combat), and the chance that elements will not fire increases as the force value increases. In general though, adding more units should result in more elements firing, but a lower percentage of the total elements will generally be firing as the force increases. The CV values of the attacking units are not changed by this rule.


It's not stupid but it's about firing not involved

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 11
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 6:57:18 PM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		Without a clear answer I decide to continue my turn and other battles to do some test.

The first thing I decide : not to engage my art division in my combats but do 1 or 2 bombardement with them before the ground engagement. I had the impression that my problems begins when I started to use them.

After 4 battles I came to the conclusion that everything works perfectly up to 6 Corps are involved in the combat but if the number of Corps increases, the number of SU (even directly attached on units) engaged declines.
I have the feeling that the size of the units is also important.

It's just my first conclusions and I will keep an eye on my future combat reports.

Sorry for my poor english


< Message edited by schascha -- 7/5/2013 7:25:03 PM >

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 12
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 7:37:57 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

Without a clear answer I decide to continue my turn and other battles to do some test.

The first thing I decide : not to engage my art division in my combats but do 1 or 2 bombardement with them before the ground engagement. I had the impression that my problems begins when I started to use them.

After 4 battles I came to the conclusion that everything works perfectly up to 6 Corps are involved in the combat but if the number of Corps increases, the number of SU (even directly attached on units) engaged declines.
I have the feeling that the size of the units is also important.

It's just my first conclusions and I will keep an eye on my future combat reports.

Sorry for my poor english



That's a nerf that was put into game a long while back.

If you have X divisons or Corp in a single battle elements involved in battle will decline.
The more units the less elements commit to the battle.

Not going to bother to find it some other nerd can.


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 13
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 7:45:47 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		All SUs attached to CUs should be included automatically, without limits. I wonder if perhaps you have reached hard limit of units involved in one battle. Your problem starts as you reach 28-30 units, both on and off map.

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 14
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 8:15:40 PM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

Without a clear answer I decide to continue my turn and other battles to do some test.

The first thing I decide : not to engage my art division in my combats but do 1 or 2 bombardement with them before the ground engagement. I had the impression that my problems begins when I started to use them.

After 4 battles I came to the conclusion that everything works perfectly up to 6 Corps are involved in the combat but if the number of Corps increases, the number of SU (even directly attached on units) engaged declines.
I have the feeling that the size of the units is also important.

It's just my first conclusions and I will keep an eye on my future combat reports.

Sorry for my poor english



That's a nerf that was put into game a long while back.

If you have X divisons or Corp in a single battle elements involved in battle will decline.
The more units the less elements commit to the battle.

Not going to bother to find it some other nerd can.



I'm sure you read this thread before without sharing your opinion, knoweldge.

And now when I have find the start of an answer, you told me it was evident and only a nerd...

It's a very curious attitude.





< Message edited by schascha -- 7/5/2013 8:16:58 PM >

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 15
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 8:24:13 PM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

All SUs attached to CUs should be included automatically, without limits. I wonder if perhaps you have reached hard limit of units involved in one battle. Your problem starts as you reach 28-30 units, both on and off map.

I didn't check this number, its a good idea thx

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 16
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 8:44:09 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		By the way, why do you need such overkill? What is that you have to defeat, that you need 2000+ CV? In my battles I usually attack with 2 corps + div + reserves, sometimes with a Tank Army (3 corps) or two armies at most (4/5 corps + div), 1200 CV at most. Thanks to raw elements number advantage you should win on 1:1 to 1.5:1 80% of the time (depends how many reserves kick in).

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 17
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/5/2013 11:54:16 PM   
PastrySquirrel

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		Morale farming? The proper execution of which would be a welcome thread of its own...

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 18
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/6/2013 12:25:30 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PastrySquirrel

Morale farming? The proper execution of which would be a welcome thread of its own...


Done a few already, let him post one then I can trash it and post how its done.




_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to PastrySquirrel)
Post #: 19
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/6/2013 8:00:53 AM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

By the way, why do you need such overkill? What is that you have to defeat, that you need 2000+ CV? In my battles I usually attack with 2 corps + div + reserves, sometimes with a Tank Army (3 corps) or two armies at most (4/5 corps + div), 1200 CV at most. Thanks to raw elements number advantage you should win on 1:1 to 1.5:1 80% of the time (depends how many reserves kick in).


My opponent stopped attack at the end of turn 15, spent the new year 42 in poland and for one year the front is stabilized like this:



We are in march 43, I had some troubles with my trucks during the last winter and the mobility of my units don't allow to do too much attacks. I have in front of me CV between 1000 and 20000 with a good reserve activation.

This is the combat in question for this thread:




My AAR in french:
http://www.leqg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=13114


< Message edited by schascha -- 7/6/2013 8:44:16 AM >

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 20
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/19/2013 4:56:56 PM   
Jagdfluger

 

Posts: 122
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline 		Good questions - thanks for the posts.

< Message edited by Jagdfluger -- 7/19/2013 5:00:35 PM >

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 21
RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU - 7/20/2013 12:08:14 PM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Psheesh... what will you do?

(Feel you are playing at an extreme situation that the game might not handle that well. Looks like WWI Western Front.)

(in reply to Jagdfluger)
Post #: 22
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