RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 7:17:39 PM

String

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No brit fighters such as Hurrianes? They might do good with the increased armor, but then again, I haven't played for a while and don't know how they fare under recent patches.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 7:18:55 PM

Canoerebel

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No way to get them there except by ship, which would be extremely dangerous given enemy subs and the proximity of enemy air and ships. Not worth it. The Americans have to handle this particular job.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 10:19:10 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Capital ships at Sabang will have to absorb heavy blows.

absorb or engage in heavy fighting? Are the old BB's around to fight? The young BB's?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 10:23:40 PM

Canoerebel

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All the "ponies" are in the corral. IE, both the fast and slow BBs are there. By "absorbing blows," I mean the Allied fleet is prepared to take blows if enemy air makes it through the CAP. From a surface action standpoint, I'm fairly confident the Allied fleet can handle anything Japan can send. There should be big carnage on both sides.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 10:36:53 PM

Cribtop

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IMHO the fact John hasn't come yet means he is "winding up" to go for the knockout blow. While this slightly increases his chances of success, I believe it significantly increases the chances that this battle will be decisive from the standpoint of IJN attrition. Like Guadalcanal and Philippine Sea rolled into one. Can't wait to watch it.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 10:49:59 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
There should be big carnage on both sides.

Yay! Carnage!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 11:16:23 PM

Canoerebel

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I like carnage too, but only when it's one sided in my favor. But no matter how I work this, I can't come up with a risk-free way to shape this battle, nor do I think avoiding battle is a viable option. So, what are the advantages?

1. John will have more aicraft, what with combined LBA and carriers. He'll have far more aircraft than he had in the Battles of Assam.
2. However, he probably won't have big airfields in close proxmity as he did in Burma. Port Blair is 12 hexes; next best are Tandjoen (level two) and Singers (and adjacent fields). I think the Allies have successfully put VP and Georgetown out of commission.
3. During the Battles of Assam, there was the potential for John to bring much more seapower to bear than the Allies could muster. He didn't, but he might have. This time, there isn't the potential for such one-sided action (at least, I don't think there is).
4. The Allies get the benefit of Sabang's airfield, mines, PT boats, etc.
5. IF Japan's airfields are indeed as I've laid out here, John probably has to keep the KB fairly close to Sabang to have a shot at his air getting through CAP to hit the Allied fleet. The Allied carriers, on the other hand, probably have more flexibility - they can stick close to Sabang or maneuver for an advantageous shot.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/5/2013 11:42:10 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

IF Japan's airfields are indeed as I've laid out here, John probably has to keep the KB fairly close to Sabang to have a shot at his air getting through CAP to hit the Allied fleet. The Allied carriers, on the other hand, probably have more flexibility - they can stick close to Sabang or maneuver for an advantageous shot.

Hmmmmm, I'm not going to ask but I suspect you have moved these. you would not have gone north, you can get trapped, What's the point in keeping them in port, you might have removed them entirely, If I had to guess you moved them way south and may try to get behind the KB or make a thunder-run into the DEI. Keep it quite, I don't mind being surprised.

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 7/6/2013 1:14:00 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 12:28:48 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Keep it quire, I don't mind being surprised.

Oh, oh - you may get some strange PMs with that kind of message ...

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 7/6/2013 12:29:58 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 1:14:38 AM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Oh, oh - you may get some strange PMs with that kind of message ...

told you I couldn't spell. thanks and fixed

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 1:59:24 AM

Schlemiel

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If things start getting hairy with your spelling, just consult with your Italian lawyer again.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 4:50:22 AM

JeffroK

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What if JIII doesn't come to the party.

D+14 , he must know that you are getting everything ready for him.

A possible approach for him is to shore up southern Sumatra to make it very expensive for you to advance, added to you push into the Malay Peninsula may have him more concerned in minimizing his base losses and keeping his fleet as a threat for another day.

A failed KB assault could see him effectively lose the war in 1 battle, whereas CR would only be delayed by the loss of his CV at this time.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 5:14:39 AM

Cribtop

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Problem is, the aerial noose will tighten around John's Oil supply, house rules notwithstanding. John has to keep Palembang out of LBA range. Dec '42 is too early to lose access to the main tap at the DEI bar for Japan.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 5:43:01 AM

Canoerebel

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John won't wait long before pouncing. The importance of the Allied position and the proximity of so much of the Allied fleet - he lives for opportunities like these! - will be absolutely irresistable.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 5:49:12 AM

String

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

No way to get them there except by ship, which would be extremely dangerous given enemy subs and the proximity of enemy air and ships. Not worth it. The Americans have to handle this particular job.

You could use one CVE, load them on and fly them to the base when in ferry range. But you probably don't have enough carriers as it is.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 8:06:02 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schlemiel

If things start getting hairy with your spelling, just consult with your Italian lawyer again.

Did somebody asked for a spelling professor?

Here am i

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 11:08:22 AM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

If things start getting hairy with your spelling, just consult with your Italian lawyer again.

My Cousin GreyJoy! GJ could be my lawyer anytime!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 2:53:17 PM

Canoerebel

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11/25/42 - D+15, Operation Des Wallace

Who's going where? Who's doing what? Forces are converging, but the picture isn't yet clear as to what the chief threats are and where the best opportunities lie.

Capital Ships: Still no sign of the KB, but that little enemy carrier force up near Victoria Point is sliding slowly southwestward; another carrier is reported down around Benkolen. BB Yamato has entered the Malacca Straits and is posted at Tandjoen, probably to provide security for incoming reinforcements, but posing a threat to Allied operations in ports like Medan and Alor Star. This raises the tension level considerably, but I do like having enemy capital ships in these confined, dangerous waters (an enemy DD hit a mine and I think sank). An enemy TF (7 ships reported) is up at Sinabang, possibly guarding against reinforcements or possibly about to raid Sabang. Most of the Allies combat shipping remains at Sabang, where I'm torn between all the important missions: (1) provide security for Sabang; cover reinforcement missions to Sinabang and Alor Star; provide security for troops arriving at Medan against Yamato bombardment mission (Medan is clear terrain, so bombardment will be very effective); engage in bombardment missions against Medan/Georgetown/VP; etc. I can't do them all, but one to three will be done.

On the Ground: Japanese air is wearing out the little Allied garrison at Singora. I think it will fall tomorrow. The relief force (tanks and part of an Indian brigade) crossing the narrowest part of the peninsula isn't strong enough to break through the Thai unit in the jungle. The lead Allied units (two tank outfits) arrives at Medan, which John is reinforcing. The reinforcing Indian division is ashore at Sabang. Batoe-Eilenden falls to Sasebo Assault Division.

In the Air: Roughly 60 4EB from Ramree hit the enemy airfield at Port Blair, destroying some 20 aircraft - mostly Betties and Tojos. If the Allies can make that base tenuous for John, his airfield options become much more limited, what with Georgetown and VP in a bad way. Sabang airfield goes to level 5.63 - three days to level six. The airfield (level 2) at Langsa is nearly operational, though it will take some time to get it big enough to be useful. I don't have enough fighters to provide CAP there, so my main hope is to either use it as a forward base for bombers (once it reaches level 4) or possibly to stage in carrier air on occasion to mix up the look (speaking of which, can an Air HQ with torps allow Avengers to fly from a level two airfield?).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 2:56:48 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Problem is, the aerial noose will tighten around John's Oil supply, house rules notwithstanding. John has to keep Palembang out of LBA range. Dec '42 is too early to lose access to the main tap at the DEI bar for Japan.

Cribs right here. Sumatra and Java mean little as far as territory go. It is only for the bases that are in range of John's oil. Once the oil is dead the area quickly becomes a backwater. And, it provides great jumping off places for invasion of the Malay Peninsula. (assuming John throws Canoe out of there) Later in the game, Singapore is the big plum because the Allies are in sore need of a shipyard in that theater.

There is no need to advance towards Southern Sumatra. Heading that way take you no closer to Tokyo..

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 3:28:59 PM

Canoerebel

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John will load up southern Sumatra and Malaya with troops, so I don't foresee the Allies advancing much further than the current positions. No need for Sherman to assault Kennesaw Mountain when he can sidestep. The Allied invasion should yield sidestep opportunities, though we're entering the phase now where John knows where the vulnerabilities are and should be attending to them. But John's task has to be pretty challenging - with however many (10?) divisions in Burma and his pressing need for major reinforcements in Sumatra and Malaya, he'll have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

In the near term, as I wrestle today with orders for the next turn, I have to decide whether in Sumatra I'm still mainly on the offensive or whether it's time to hunker down and prepare for the enemy onslaught.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 4:20:46 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

(speaking of which, can an Air HQ with torps allow Avengers to fly from a level two airfield?).

yes

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 5:58:50 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
In the near term, as I wrestle today with orders for the next turn, I have to decide whether in Sumatra I'm still mainly on the offensive or whether it's time to hunker down and prepare for the enemy onslaught.

Aye. And time to determine which circuitous route your carriers can take to the South-Southeast (map) to hit John's wagon train in the nether regions.

ETA: I've no idea where John's support fleet is at this moment. I'm venturing the whereabouts and mission of Dan's carriers at this time.

I doubt very much that they're anywhere near the Sabang-Ceylon LOS. I'm betting they're either going back down the Western Australia coast to Perth (eventual redeployment to SWPac) or will take the swing in to try to interdict shipping after John moves KB through. Another thought is that they've gone into the East coast wormhole, but I consider that the least likely outcome.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 7/6/2013 6:05:06 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 7:25:15 PM

BBfanboy

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Makes some sense CB. Kill the AOs and KB cannot linger long.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 7:30:25 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Makes some sense CB. Kill the AOs and KB cannot linger long.

Aye. If Palembang is threatened, it makes sense to get as much out of there with AOs as possible. After they refuel KB, of course. No matter the sequence, a sweep behind KB should yield a nice catch of support ships.

Or, it could be forestalled in favor of a quick trip around Oz to get back to the South Pacific.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/6/2013 9:07:34 PM

Canoerebel

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That's one of about a dozen moves that might pay big dividends. But it's got lots of down sides too. John will expect it, so he's apt to keep his supply train in the Java Sea. I can position my carriers for a "just in case," but they might sit there for a week or ten days with no luck, while other opportunities pass. For these and other reasons, I didn't elect to do this. I came up with a course of action that offers a guarantee of some payoff with a possibilty of larger ones.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/7/2013 12:19:38 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's one of about a dozen moves that might pay big dividends. But it's got lots of down sides too. John will expect it, so he's apt to keep his supply train in the Java Sea. I can position my carriers for a "just in case," but they might sit there for a week or ten days with no luck, while other opportunities pass. For these and other reasons, I didn't elect to do this. I came up with a course of action that offers a guarantee of some payoff with a possibilty of larger ones.

You put the planes ashore and sent the carriers to CT for upgrades? Oh, man ... sneaky! I like it!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/7/2013 2:57:47 AM

Canoerebel

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11/26/42 - D+16, Operation Des Wallace

There's so much happening that I'm afraid of getting bogged down in details that don't paint a good picture of the overall dynamics.

Japanese Moves: John did several things today that had varying levels of success - a paratroop assault took Car Nicobar (wiping out a small base force detachment); a deliberate attack wiped out most of the little garrison at Padang; a shock attack recaptured Singora (but the Allied troops withdrew down the railroad, keeping that blocked in a way that will take him another week to 10 days to dislodge); a CL/DD force penetrated NW of Sabang and found the crippled AE that had nearly made it out of harm's way (but the Allied carriers were nearby and probably did mortal damage to CL Tatsuta); he landed a detachment at Phuket via fast transport; and last, but not least, elements of I. Guards and 4th Div. (the latter pretty stout) shock attacked two tank units at Medan an failed miserably. So John has sniffed out the location of the Allied carriers and begun nibbling here and there. I have no doubt he's beginning to unleash his counterattack. LBA from Port Blair picked off several supply xAKs moving to Sabang. Allied 4EB did slight damage to the airfield.

Allied Moves: The Allies should have two infantry divisions - 550 AV or so - at Medan tomorrow. Barring something surprising, that base should fall within a few days. Troops have moved east out of Sibolga to create a small perimeter; these units hope to link up with the Allied troops that (I hope) will soon be moving from Medan to Tandjoen. I moved the carriers to a point perhaps 15 hexes WNW of Sabang for a variety of reasons, including a feeling that they might be needed, to perhaps slow John down, and to cover a number of important convoys coming into and leaving Sabang. Let's see how John reacts. Sabang airfield goes to 5.77, so it should reach 6 tomorrow. This base is currently Port 1 (3); Airfield 6 (7). IIRC, getting the combined levels to 10 prevents supply waste and also does away with malaria effects? Langsa airfield is up and running, though I won't use it yet. Allied mines and subs claim several victims in the Malacca Straits. The PB boat flotilla has arrived at Sabang.

What's Next? If John wants a carrier clash, he'll come. My carriers will move a few hexes north (a tad bit closer to Colombo rather than towards the enemy). Here they'll be in good position to provide cover for shipping. There are other plans in the works. OVerall, the situation is complex and fluid. Who emerges the victor in this chess match remains to be seen.

Burma: Allied 2EB messed up 33rd Div. in the open. Japanese air has been hammering two exposed Indian brigades, which is about to get attacked by 12th Div. SigInt that 48th Div. has been divided and is prepping for Phuket. To this point, one of the side beneifts of this operation has been the mauling of Imperial Guards. 4th Div. is about to suffer the same way, I think. And perhaps the Allies can rough up 48th Div.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/7/2013 3:50:16 AM

princep01

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The plot does thicken.

If the entire 4th Div and elements of Imp GD are at Medan, you will find that a tough nut to crack. He will certainly bomb, shell and bombard the devil out of your troops and I guess you will do the same to his, but IF that is the whole 4th Div, this will become Verdun.

Is there no way you can remove the unsinkable land CV known as Pt Blair from your supply lines by invasion? I have no idea what he has there in land forces. That is going to remain a bloody, bleeding sore spot if you cannot.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/7/2013 5:39:38 AM

Canoerebel

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The fragment of Imperial Guards at Medan has a raw AV of about zero. The 4th Div. cadre probably has a raw AV of about 125. The two of them failed miserably to dislodge two US tank units. Two divisions (32nd, at full strength, and 27th, at 1/3rd strength) will arrive tomorrow, followed a day later by 1st Marine Division (about 1/2 strength). Unless John reinforces quickly, Medan should fall quickly.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/7/2013 5:42:03 AM

Canoerebel

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The Allies have inserted all unrestricted troops in theater into Sumatra and Malaya, leaving nothing to employ against Port Blair, which is probably be too tough a nut to take on right now anyhow - big airfield and whatevever troops are still there will be dug in.

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