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RE: Looking for Shipart - 6/24/2013 6:52:24 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline 		For SuluSea: KPM De Klerk




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Post #: 31
RE: Looking for Shipart - 6/24/2013 6:54:26 PM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Wow, many thanks (to you and John)!

Lot of the stuff you want had to be abstracted into what was available. I tried to accommodate Don as much as I could. Will look at making some relevant art for you because most of your ships are very near and dear to our hearts.

I'll do this for you (and Don) but they won't likely show up individually in standard games. This is only for you and Don and a couple other crazy people out there.

Question, some of the Ellerman Line stuff had a Maier-form bow. Do you wanna dig that deep? Ciao. John


I'll have to find out what a Maier-form bow is

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Post #: 32
RE: Looking for Shipart - 6/25/2013 12:18:08 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Okie doke Kereguelen, I already started on De Klerk the neat thing about doing ships is more times than not the interesting stories about their service. As always the artwork that comes with the game is fantastic so I try to do my best to make the ships I work on fit within the art scheme. I'll post pictures and the files once they are complete.

Have a great and safe trip!

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

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Post #: 33
RE: Looking for Shipart - 6/25/2013 2:06:56 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JuanG

Had to grab myself a copy too, this looks like a great resource. The only seller I could find on Amazon didn't do international shipping, so I found it also listen on Alibris incase anyone is in the same position.

Really a shame to see things like this slowly lost.


Try on Amazon.co.uk. Seller betterworldbooks does international shipping.

(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 34
Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 3:35:23 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
I already owned the 1942 and 1944 version of Talbot-Booths Merchant Ships. I stretched to buy the 1949-50 in hopes of details on late war building programs and completed ships. Unfortunately, the 1949-50 version does not deliver what I had hoped for. The book has changed formats, with fewer, smaller, less detailed line drawings and much less ship data.

According to the introduction, it is the first release since 1944 (nothing 45 thru 48) and has changed to primarily a recognition reference. Instead of detail on lots and lots of ships it has a line drawing of one "representative" ship and a general note that there were lots of similar ships. Gone too is the list of ships for each shipping company. It retains only the funnel markings and flag data for the various lines - but nothing on ships they own.

I attempted to reference one small group of ships built in Canada at the end of the war. These were the coasters of the "B" and "C" class. Small but useful ships, many of which were sold post war to Chinese coastal lines (the "B" class were thus known as "China Coasters"). Alas, nothing.

All in all I must recommend against the 1949-50 version - at least for the purposes of an AE modder. Between the 1942 and 1944 its the 1942 for sure. More data, more line drawings. Seem to be lots of 1942s out there and at reasonable prices. Grab one of those and give the rest a pass.

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Post #: 35
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 6:01:27 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Don,

thanks for the info! Good to know as I was tempted to aquire the 1949 version.

Do you have, perchance, solid real life data about the Japanese wartime standard ships (A, B, C, D, E, F, K and Tankers). I have all of them in my mod (with correct data for commissioning etc.) but still lack real life data about GRT, NRT, DWT and oil capacity for some of them (never bought 'Ugly Ducklings'). [I'm somewhat unhappy with the specifications provided for them in the AE]

Thanks!

'K'

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Post #: 36
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 6:42:39 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
I have "Ugly Ducklings". It's primarily Type A, but has some data on the others. More data in the text, like speed (13 max, 10 economical). Have not found endurance and have no reference for AE specs like maneuver or durability.

Here are a couple of scans. First is summary of Japanese Standard Types. Second is detailed specs on a Type 3A completed post war.




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Post #: 37
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 6:43:19 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		And the twoth one...




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Post #: 38
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 7:11:11 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
And, lastly, let me add one more ship to the list of requested artwork (line drawing from the 1942 Merchant Ships, of course).




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Post #: 39
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 7:21:19 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Do you have, perchance, solid real life data about the Japanese wartime standard ships (A, B, C, D, E, F, K and Tankers). I have all of them in my mod (with correct data for commissioning etc.) but still lack real life data about GRT, NRT, DWT and oil capacity for some of them (never bought 'Ugly Ducklings'). [I'm somewhat unhappy with the specifications provided for them in the AE]

Thanks! 'K'

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
I have "Ugly Ducklings". It's primarily Type A, but has some data on the others. More data in the text, like speed (13 max, 10 economical). Have not found endurance and have no reference for AE specs like maneuver or durability.

Lots of sources out there for this. Some good, some not so much. I like http://homepage3.nifty.com/jpnships/ because Mr Nagasawa is in tune with Japanese shipbuilders and is pretty righteous about the war period.

There's a bunch of stuff, Srcs and otherwise under http://homepage3.nifty.com/jpnships/ under tiem No 6.

It's in Japanese, but that shouldn't matter. You all should be able to figure it out.

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 40
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 7:31:11 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage3.nifty.com%2Fjpnships%2F&act=url

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Post #: 41
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/25/2013 8:40:11 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
One more...

These are the B, C, and "Shelt" type coasters. These were meant for service in the Far East, primarily around Malaya during and after the scheduled British invasion there. Also for post war use, of course.

B and C types were also built on the Canadian West Coast, and it was these that started me on this topic.

I'm primarily interested in the "B" Type. 215 Feet waterline, 224 feet overall. Appreciate it if some nice person could do the artwork...




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Post #: 42
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 2:24:06 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I'll add the Coasters (I assume you want all 3) and Maui to the list Don. Have a great night!!

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"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

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Post #: 43
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 3:07:47 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks. That list must be getting quite large...

Forgot to add: the "C" type were 151 feet overall (144 waterline) and the Shelt 148 ft overall and 143 waterline.

< Message edited by Don Bowen -- 6/26/2013 3:11:41 AM >

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Post #: 44
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 5:25:20 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info on the 49-50 Talbot-Booth, Don. Guess I'll save some money and not go for that one. I ordered the 42 version a few back, hopefully it should arrive soon. Looking forward to it. 

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Post #: 45
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 4:03:08 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Here's KPM DeKlerk in both gray and black hull. Modders choice. I'll upload everything when the package is done because it's possible I may make changes.




Have a great day!!

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 6/26/2013 4:08:23 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 5:30:00 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline 		Yea!!!

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 47
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 5:30:27 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline 		Another YEA!

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Post #: 48
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/26/2013 5:54:01 PM   
MateDow


Posts: 218
Joined: 8/6/2002
Status: offline 		Looks good

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Post #: 49
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/27/2013 11:41:25 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Thanks Sulu, looking forward to your completed package!

Also, thanks John, for your art you put up in this thread.

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Post #: 50
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/28/2013 2:36:41 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Here's KPM DeKlerk in both gray and black hull. Modders choice. I'll upload everything when the package is done because it's possible I may make changes.




Have a great day!!


Superb!

Many Thanks!

The hull color versions can even be used for ship upgrades (black for the peacetime [1941] version, grey when in military use later after class upgrade).

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 51
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/28/2013 2:40:50 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


I have "Ugly Ducklings". It's primarily Type A, but has some data on the others. More data in the text, like speed (13 max, 10 economical). Have not found endurance and have no reference for AE specs like maneuver or durability.

Here are a couple of scans. First is summary of Japanese Standard Types. Second is detailed specs on a Type 3A completed post war.




Excellent stuff and very helpful! Thanks! Now I only have to find out the net tonnage and/or fuel capacities for them.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 52
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/28/2013 2:42:48 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


One more...

These are the B, C, and "Shelt" type coasters. These were meant for service in the Far East, primarily around Malaya during and after the scheduled British invasion there. Also for post war use, of course.

B and C types were also built on the Canadian West Coast, and it was these that started me on this topic.

I'm primarily interested in the "B" Type. 215 Feet waterline, 224 feet overall. Appreciate it if some nice person could do the artwork...



These are the 'Ottawa' coasters, correct?

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 53
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/28/2013 3:00:37 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


One more...

These are the B, C, and "Shelt" type coasters. These were meant for service in the Far East, primarily around Malaya during and after the scheduled British invasion there. Also for post war use, of course.

B and C types were also built on the Canadian West Coast, and it was these that started me on this topic.

I'm primarily interested in the "B" Type. 215 Feet waterline, 224 feet overall. Appreciate it if some nice person could do the artwork...



These are the 'Ottawa' coasters, correct?


Sorta... Both the "B" and "C" coasters built in Canada had the Ottawa prefix. There were also some of all three types built in Britain (B, C, Shelt). The British built "B"s had Empire prefix.

For the Ottawas, see:
http://www.shipbuildinghistory.com/history/canada/shipsbytype/wwtwo.htm (search for Ottawa).

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 54
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 6/28/2013 3:19:59 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks guys!

Found a couple artist renditions for pre war color cross reference. I included a second Anglo Saxon tanker. Next up will be the Eagle Oil tankers but because of a busy week may be just researching.



Thanks!

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 7/2/2013 1:11:22 AM >

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

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Post #: 55
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 7/2/2013 9:18:18 AM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Thanks guys!

Found a couple artist renditions for pre war color cross reference. I included a second Anglo Saxon tanker. Next up will be the Eagle Oil tankers but because of a busy week may be just researching.



Thanks!


Excellent. Btw., you got the Anglo-Saxon tankers right (referring to the deleted/edited contend of your last post). Yellow funnel, with black top.

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 56
RE: Book Report: Merchant Ships 1949-50 - 7/3/2013 1:16:41 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Kereguelen, I had some time I thought I wouldn't have today so should be done with Eagle Oil tankers minus some fine tuning.





Enjoy!


Next up California Class...

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 7/3/2013 1:18:11 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 57
RE: Looking for Shipart - 7/3/2013 1:51:26 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

For SuluSea: American Republics Line California Class





Boy, lots of info on these ships... Some pretty interesting stories too.

Here's one site

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Post #: 58
RE: Looking for Shipart - 7/9/2013 12:32:02 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Here's California Class Passenger Ship , as I mentioned earlier I came away with some pretty good pictures of these and the artwork depicts the version that was painted in 12/41. I wish the art reflected how much time I spent on it but it doesn't.

Enjoy!!




I had a computer issue this morning and thought I lost the work so I'll be uploading the 4 finished vessels for safe keeping as soon as the package is put together...Hopefully tonight.

Here's American Republics Line California Class

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< Message edited by SuluSea -- 7/9/2013 12:44:28 AM >

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Post #: 59
RE: Looking for Shipart - 7/9/2013 12:46:12 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		KPM De Klerk



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"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

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Post #: 60
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