How does this game play?

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How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 5:39:50 PM

bob.

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Is this basically Panzer Corps gameplay or is it more like a "traditional" hex-based wargame that just happens to have units with steps similar to Panzer Corps?

I'm mostly talking about complexity here. Is this Panzer Corps with more historical unit setups or is this something else?

I would really like a gameplay video or something similar.. when I search for this game on Youtube I find exactly nothing. I don't think that's very good advertising, I will definitely not buy a game I know basically nothing about.

< Message edited by bob. -- 7/25/2013 5:40:32 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 5:49:53 PM

Erik Rutins

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It is similar to Panzer Corps, but with more realistic maps, orders of battle and historical unit upgrades. Basically, if you like Panzer Corps or Panzer General, you will enjoy this game and it will give you a more historical experience. We've posted a few after action reports that should give you an idea of gameplay. We're hoping to see some "Let's Play" videos showing up soon as well.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 5:52:07 PM

michaelincol

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Developer's note and recent AAR told me alot about game. I especially appreciated developer's note. Great presentation of thought behind game and approach was enough to get my purchase - and being in Matrix stable always helps for cred. Gotta head out door but download and patch worked fine. Game is polished. Played around with Stalingrad battle some. As developer notes lay out, deeper than PC and simpler than Victor's DC classics. Smells like a keeper to me. thanks developers and Matrix.

Michael

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 5:55:29 PM

Erik Rutins

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Thank you gamerincol, great points.

I'll link the developer's notes here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3370923

And an after action report here:

http://www.wargamer.com/article/3394/after-action-report-germany-at-war-barbarossa-1941-aar

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 6:06:48 PM

Blond_Knight

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Is the map rotate-able? I recall in their last release it wasn't.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 6:21:21 PM

stormbringer3

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I've purchased WitE, Decisive Campaigns Case Blue and Panzer Corps. I'm looking for a title that is between Panzer Corps and WitE in complexity. I like the fact that this title is more historical than Panzer Corps but I'm hoping for a more complex game than Panzer Corps. Are there enough options to move this title above "beer and pretzels"? I'm not criticizing Panzer Corps, I've spent a lot of time with it and really enjoyed it.
Thanks for any opinions.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 6:59:58 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight
Is the map rotate-able? I recall in their last release it wasn't.

You can do pretty much everything except rotate it. Rotation would not be hard to add though as far as I know, we just didn't think it was necessary.

You can scroll it several ways, it zooms in and way out smoothly. As you zoom out units also change from the 3D type to NATO symbols to make it easy to see which unit is in each hex (you can also turn NATO symbols on all the time).

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 7:01:15 PM

michaelincol

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I think you nailed the sweet spot aimed at. Check the link Erik supplied in tis thread to the dev's notes. It'll show you the depth it has beyond PC. I am still overwhelmed by WiTE and am learning/playing Victor's DC games. But also wanted something deeper than PC (yet lighter than DC)to give me a quicker swag of the historical realities of the campaigns which then makes grappling with the more complex games less daunting for me.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 7:11:47 PM

Erik Rutins

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Hi Stormbringer3,

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3
I've purchased WitE, Decisive Campaigns Case Blue and Panzer Corps. I'm looking for a title that is between Panzer Corps and WitE in complexity. I like the fact that this title is more historical than Panzer Corps but I'm hoping for a more complex game than Panzer Corps. Are there enough options to move this title above "beer and pretzels"? I'm not criticizing Panzer Corps, I've spent a lot of time with it and really enjoyed it.
Thanks for any opinions.

This is a very good game, but is more towards the Panzer Corps side than the War in the East side, but I think that it will be very enjoyable for most wargamers as it covers a good sweep of the Eastern Front in a very interesting and dynamic campaign. The difficulty can be adjusted and supply rules can be changed to be more or less detailed and resources adjusted for balance and more historical replacement rates.

Complexity-wise though, Decisive Campaigns is a good step down from War in the East, as are some of the smaller War in the East scenarios in Lost Battles or Don to the Danube. I guess the next step from Decisive Campaigns would be something like Command Ops, Combat Command or the SSG games like Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets and Across the Dnepr: Second Edition.

From Panzer Corps, the next step up I'd say would be Germany at War or Unity of Command.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 7:45:00 PM

stormbringer3

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Thanks for the opinions. I already have Unity of Command, an excellent game, had at least one of the SSG games years ago so I'll probably try this title.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 7:52:50 PM

Blond_Knight

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I think you hit the right price point for this title, waiting for payday.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 8:14:29 PM

ComradeP

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It is quite similar to Panzer General and Panzer Corps as far as the basics are concerned, but the main aim was to make it (within the confines of the level of complexity, obviously) put more pressure on the player in terms of managing his resources ("prestige" in PG terms) and you have more control over how tough the enemy units will be as you can adjust the resources the enemy receives as well as the experience of enemy units. You also have to keep track of your fuel and ammunition usage as replenishment is not free.

Combat is also a somewhat more complex affair than in PG or PC as nearly destroying full strength units with 1 attack is extremely rare. I have never seen it. The average "good" result would be something like 3 or 4 losses for the enemy per attack. The Soviet units are often understrength, but the 15 strength units won't roll over and die when attacked by 2 Panzer units, like in a typical PG or PC game.

Your units will become better than those of the enemy in terms of experience, but generally speaking the attrition can mount over time.

The resource allocation is not "work in progress" per se, but the developers will quite probably do more finetuning in the future as more player feedback comes in and a better "average" requirement can be determined of what a player needs to avoid being attrited to death.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 7/25/2013 8:15:25 PM >

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/25/2013 11:03:17 PM

demyansk

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any discount for testers of the product?

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 2:06:19 AM

rodney727

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For what it is worth... What Erik says is true. If you love panzer corps you will like this game. While I have only dabbed into this I feel I have been here before. In PC you get to name your units while this game names them from you from the start. It feels more like PC 2 than an original start from scratch type of game which leaves me to wonder if allied corps was the last in the series. The limited scenarios begs to wonder when the dcls for this game will start to pew out. Only time will tell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It is similar to Panzer Corps, but with more realistic maps, orders of battle and historical unit upgrades. Basically, if you like Panzer Corps or Panzer General, you will enjoy this game and it will give you a more historical experience. We've posted a few after action reports that should give you an idea of gameplay. We're hoping to see some "Let's Play" videos showing up soon as well.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by rogo727 -- 7/26/2013 2:07:10 AM >

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 2:19:37 AM

Numdydar

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I can easily see GaW 1942, 1943, etc lol.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 11:39:50 AM

ComradeP

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quote:

In PC you get to name your units while this game names them from you from the start.

In Panzer Corps, you're using generic units (like in most PG games). In GaW, you're using mostly historical units, depending on whether you purchase more units or equip units with different equipment.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 12:57:15 PM

spillblood

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If you like Panzer Corps, and would like to try out a more historical 3D version of it, give it a try. It's a really good game, and the 3D graphics increase clarity of the map, weather effects are shown directly as animated effects.
I also liked the 3D models of units, though they might annoy some grognards and can be switched to NATO symbols if you prefer it (I don't).
It also is more realistic in regards of unit capabilities, overruns with one attack or extreme strength loss due to a single attack aren't possible and the combat seems less random than in PC with normal dice roll rules enabled.

< Message edited by spillblood -- 7/26/2013 1:01:34 PM >

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 1:57:34 PM

jjdenver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
It is similar to Panzer Corps, but with more realistic maps, orders of battle and historical unit upgrades. Basically, if you like Panzer Corps or Panzer General, you will enjoy this game and it will give you a more historical experience. We've posted a few after action reports that should give you an idea of gameplay. We're hoping to see some "Let's Play" videos showing up soon as well.
Regards,
- Erik

Erik, my main problem with Pz General was that it was so scripted. I never felt like I was an actual commander, instead I got more of a space invaders feel with wave after wave of unexplainable enemy units appearing and attacking. I remember one scenario in Poland where I was defending (or maybe I was supposed to be attacking, I don''t recall) with the Germans and there was an inexhaustible supply of Polish troops zerging forward. It felt like a stupid video game not an operational wargame. Because of this I couldn't even finish the first Panzer General and I think I bought an expansion before I realized how awful Pz Gen was and never even played it at all nor played more than half of the Pz Gen campaign. It was a waste of money and time for me. Hearing that you are sending it to iPad makes me sad that you are wasting resources on this game instead of promoting something more worthy to iPad.

Similarly with Unity of Command (which I liked better than Panzer General, well enough to actually play through the campaign unlike pz gen) there was a scripted feel with small maps, very tightly timed objectives - each scenario felt like a puzzle that I probably should replay to "get right" rather than an large sweeping operational wargame.

So, my question is - will/does this game feel like an actual operational wargame or like a scripted/puzzle-based game?

Thanks

< Message edited by jjdenver -- 7/26/2013 1:59:18 PM >

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 2:09:23 PM

ComradeP

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In my opinion, the limits of the IGOUGO system will result in a "puzzle" feel on an operational level nearly by default, even if the opponent can't buy a wall of cheap units to stop you like in PG/PC. The second problem is that the lethality of the combat system in most of those games means creating a larger scenario is difficult.

That is the problem I encountered with UoC's DLC, so I shortened scenarios to roughly the size of historical operations. In most cases during the actual war, the defenders would just (slowly) retreat and would not be destroyed unless encircled. In games like this, that is essentially impossible without a serious overhaul of the design and the way combat works (a serious challenge, but one that people are working on).

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 2:44:53 PM

spillblood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver
So, my question is - will/does this game feel like an actual operational wargame or like a scripted/puzzle-based game?

It actually feels like a combination of scripted/puzzle-based gameplay and operational wargames, but tends to go more in the direction of PzGen.
The massing of units on the enemy side isn't a problem in Germany at War because neither you nor the AI can deploy much additional units, it's strictly limited by a slot system, and there aren't lots of scenario/support units, so you focus mainly on your core force in the campaign, which can be divided or reinforced with units from another Army Group at some points of the campaign.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 4:08:21 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver
Erik, my main problem with Pz General was that it was so scripted. I never felt like I was an actual commander, instead I got more of a space invaders feel with wave after wave of unexplainable enemy units appearing and attacking.

So, my question is - will/does this game feel like an actual operational wargame or like a scripted/puzzle-based game?

As others have posted above - I think it's a mix. The more historical focus on maps and orders of battle means that it feels more operational than other Panzer General style games. However, the scenario design and mechanics for these kinds of games means that there is always a puzzle element to figuring out how best to succeed in a scenario. That's honestly the same to a degree in any wargame, there are either strategic, operational or tactical puzzles to figure out - that's part of the fun. We did try to keep the scenarios interesting and dynamic, so in many cases you have more than one way to achieve victory and several different victory levels.

Some scenarios have additional reinforcements that can be triggered by events, but the focus is on keeping these historical or at least plausible for the "what if" scenarios once you go off the strictly historical path. That's part of the style of these games - if you really disliked Panzer General, this is certainly more historical, but the gameplay is quite similar. The scenario design is focused on historical or plausible forces and does not use unlimited forces, but I don't know whether that's enough for your preferences or if you would be happier with a more hard core and more strictly historical operational wargame.

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 4:37:08 PM

stormbringer3

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Since this title has artillery units, do they function as in Panzer Corps with a more than 1 hex range and can support on defense?
Thanks.

< Message edited by stormbringer3 -- 7/26/2013 4:46:47 PM >

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 5:05:04 PM

Erik Rutins

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Yes, they can function at long ranges and can support on defense. However, support on defense is not guaranteed. They have to pass a check based on the historical artillery doctrine and equipment in order to provide support. Upgrades can improve the responsiveness of an artillery unit.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 5:11:51 PM

elmo3

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I'm one of the very few people who never took to Panzer Corps. One main reason was that after playing a large number of scenarios PBEM with a long time gaming buddy we cane to the conclusion that they were balanced for play of one side vs the AI and that made them very unbalanced for PBEM in our opinion.

So my question is; are the scenarios in GaW balanced with PBEM in mind or have they been tested and balanced for play vs the AI? Nothing wrong with the latter, it's just not what I'm looking for. Thanks.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 6:09:16 PM

Ronald Wendt

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Hello,

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

I'm one of the very few people who never took to Panzer Corps. One main reason was that after playing a large number of scenarios PBEM with a long time gaming buddy we cane to the conclusion that they were balanced for play of one side vs the AI and that made them very unbalanced for PBEM in our opinion.

So my question is; are the scenarios in GaW balanced with PBEM in mind or have they been tested and balanced for play vs the AI? Nothing wrong with the latter, it's just not what I'm looking for. Thanks.

main testing and balancing was done with AI in mind. Though some maps seem to be balanced for multiplayer, we did not have enough different players and games with them to make a final verdict. This is definitly going to be adjusted/confirmed as soon as more data/feedback is available.

Regards,

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 6:20:38 PM

stormbringer3

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When you state "Though some maps seem to be balanced for multiplayer" does that mean if one of those maps comes up in the Campaign vs. the AI it will be too easy against the AI? Extra hard is fine with me.
Thanks.

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 6:33:40 PM

Ronald Wendt

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Hello,

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

When you state "Though some maps seem to be balanced for multiplayer" does that mean if one of those maps comes up in the Campaign vs. the AI it will be too easy against the AI? Extra hard is fine with me.
Thanks.

no, this means we have a set of multiplayer maps that are based on single maps. We tested those during the beta phase and some were clearly unbalanced while others felt like both sides could win depending on the players.
But there were not enough matches to be sure.

Regards,

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 6:47:01 PM

stormbringer3

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Looking at the designer's notes, when you adjust the AI from normal to hard etc. what will change?

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 6:53:42 PM

Ronald Wendt

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Hello,

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

Looking at the designer's notes, when you adjust the AI from normal to hard etc. what will change?

the AI is never changed - it plays always the best way it can.

You just alter circumstances with the settings.

Regards,

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RE: How does this game play? - 7/26/2013 7:01:11 PM

stormbringer3

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Thanks for your reply. What I'm looking to find is what you mentioned in altering circumstances with the settings. Some titles, when you go to harder settings, give the AI more resources or extra units etc. What circumstances can you change in this title?
Thanks again.

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Post #: 30