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Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

 
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Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 8:36:44 AM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		For multiplayer game, I still prefer the traditional PEBM instead of server based only. At least a additional PEBM option is a must.

Tks
Post #: 1
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 10:55:56 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
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From: London
Status: offline 		Any particular reason why? :)

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 12:38:29 PM   
Blond_Knight


Posts: 1031
Joined: 5/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Any particular reason why? :)



Well because if Slitherine/Matrixgames ceases to exist or falls on hard times and decides to discontinue the server-based PBEM then we could continue to play with friends.

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 12:52:03 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		I have heard this before and can understand the argument while I strongly disagree with it. It tends to come from people new to the system but once people have been using it for a while this goes away as its just so good. The PBEM server has been going for 4 years already and is a key part of our future plans.

Is there any reason why you feel it would actually be better? I can see no advantages to old style PBEM and it creates a lot of additional work for the developer to support for no gain so I just cant see why we would want to focus resources on that instead of other features.

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 1:00:42 PM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		Shall I ask why this normal wargame function be cancelled? :)
I just thought should have an alternative option for people choice. For me, since I can not connect to your server at the office, because of the company rule, so I can only play multiplayer game at home. But if it has the normal PBEM function, I can easily play them whenever I want at anywhere. if you think this is a particular reason? :)

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 1:19:17 PM   
Blond_Knight


Posts: 1031
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline 		I can see your point Iain, but then why was that functionality included in WITE? I always suspected it had something to do with WITE's price, and as a flagship product traditional PBEM was demanded by the customer base.
Im skeptical that it creates a lot of extra work for the developer. I think Slith/Matrix uses the server-based PBEM more as a form of DRM to prevent copies being shared by friends.

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Post #: 6
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 3:41:54 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

It's not intended as DRM, though I can understand why some might see it that way since it relies on a server. The truth is that it does require additional development time to implement non-server PBEM. For War in the East, we already had non-server PBEM in there when PBEM++ became available. PBEM++ has proven so popular and so much easier than normal PBEM that we wanted to get that in there too, but there was no reason to remove the old PBEM as it was already implemented. For Germany at War, we had a choice to either implement PBEM++ or an improved traditional PBEM system. Between those two, PBEM++ always makes the most sense. I agree that in an ideal world we would be able to do both, but that's not always possible. We have many other games with just PBEM++ and the community has been very happy with them.

If there is enough demand for traditional PBEM, we'll see if it's feasible to add it in. We're not opposed to the idea, it's just additional development time.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 7
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 4:51:57 PM   
jzz001

 

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Status: offline 		+1

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 10:31:13 PM   
tide1530

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 4/15/2011
Status: offline 		I played a scenario against Ronald using the server...my first time as a matter of fact and found it easy to use with no problems. I have no philosophical questions about it being better or worse then traditional PBEM. If the server goes away some day it's all part of the rich fabric of life.

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Post #: 9
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/26/2013 10:59:17 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jiangzhouzi

Shall I ask why this normal wargame function be cancelled? :)
I just thought should have an alternative option for people choice. For me, since I can not connect to your server at the office, because of the company rule, so I can only play multiplayer game at home. But if it has the normal PBEM function, I can easily play them whenever I want at anywhere. if you think this is a particular reason? :)

I'm intrigued by a company so security conscious that it blocks (normal HTTP) access to the PBEM server, yet allows you to install a 3rd-party game on your computer .

I'd add to the other responses that the PBEM++ server also make it far easier to spot cheating and turn replays. So that's another bonus.

Cheers

Pip



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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/27/2013 4:49:08 PM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		I paid $ 35 to buy this game and I do not just play with AI. I only want to ensure that if one day your server no longer providing services, I can still play multiplayer games. Do not tell me that you will never stop the service, even major companies like Microsoft, it's MSN service can say "stop". How do you make me believe that even in case of a loss you will also continue? Here I just want you to give the players more choice, and give us the protection that will not be enslaved to uncertain factors. I do believed that it is a reasonable request.
This game should have the PBEM, according to your webpage Product Specs but it looks like a cheating that make me difficult to understand.
See the picture below.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jiangzhouzi -- 7/27/2013 4:50:27 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/27/2013 8:58:32 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I asked about this on my FB page. Seems everyone really likes the PBEM++ system, but would like the old method aswell...just in case.

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/27/2013 11:45:19 PM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		My preference is not to be forced to use a central server for PBEM or real time play because of the dependency to the central server and company. I still play my older games that would almost certainly would not be possible as a number of the companies have gone out of business and even if they were still around would they be willing to pay for the central servers 5-10+ years....

< Message edited by Tejszd -- 7/27/2013 11:46:29 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/31/2013 12:06:41 PM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Eric,
Could you please explain to me what is meant "PBEM:Yes" which is stated on your product spec page?
Thus I can only think of a traditional PBEM feature is included in the default. If I had known only server based features, then I probably would not consider buying. This really misled me.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 14
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/31/2013 1:01:34 PM   
Charly G


Posts: 157
Joined: 9/25/2004
From: France
Status: offline 		My first game with PBEM server was BA. I like very much this system : easy to find an opponent or create a game, cheating is obsolete and player with a pirate copy can't play PBEM. I've bought many games with this PBEM server system and I would like this one in the older games.

I don't understand why it's a problem now after some years where many games use this one.

I hope if you create a traditional PBEM, price of the games don't change.

If Slitherine/Matrix games ceases to exist, it will be a very sad news. For me, this will be the end of PC wargame.

< Message edited by Charly G -- 7/31/2013 1:06:31 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/31/2013 8:07:42 PM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		Firstly, I never wanted to compare PBEM and server based which good or bad, here I just want to and in accordance with their products spec, that I should get what I wanted basic PBEM feature.
Secondly, If you so concerned about the problem of cheating, I have to say that wargame maybe are not for you. I think that people who love and play wargames is enjoying its rigorous deduction process are reasonable. thus I can tell you, real wargamer are never cheating and do not really care about that. If you care so much about this, then I think maybe MMORPG online game is just for you. You can never cheat at the game WOW, right? :)
BTW, do not talk about the pirate copy issue, which would allow I think you are one of Slith/Matrix water army. :) Cheers

(in reply to Charly G)
Post #: 16
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 7/31/2013 8:17:16 PM   
Blond_Knight


Posts: 1031
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline 		If we say that PBEM++ side effect is its use as a form of DRM that's fine. We're not trying to deprive Slith/Matrix of sales. Include traditional PBEM as an option but require players in a PBEM game to have different serial keys.
As far as cheating is concerned, if that's really a problem you need to find better friends.

(in reply to jzz001)
Post #: 17
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 8/1/2013 5:23:27 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hello everyone, PBEM simply means that there is PBEM support. PBEM++ is a form of that. This is not the first game that we've released where PBEM support only goes through the PBEM++ server. This just happens to be the first game where that has been in any way controversial. If you use the PBEM++ system, you'll find that it is a much better and easier way to play PBEM and I also played many PBEM games through the older style of manual PBEM.

The only reason we've gone to PBEM++ is that we've found that it is much easier for players to use and increases PBEM/multiplayer activity, which is a good thing for our community. It's not intended as a form of DRM though I understand that it can be seen that way for those who aim to primarily play multiplayer. We had requests for years to find a way to make PBEM easier and more automated. PBEM++ does that.

With that said, I respect that there are those who want a system that does not require the PBEM++ server, however good it may be. However, adding that support is not without cost. We'll take these comments to heart for future planning, but I can't commit Ronald to any changes to PBEM for this release as he and his team already spent a lot of time getting PBEM++ fully implemented and working.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 18
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 8/4/2013 1:23:11 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline 		Not the first game you've released this way and not the last ....

However, do NOT like being forced into your server based version (or anyone else's) for PBEM ..... What's the issue with emailing turns ?

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Post #: 19
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 8/5/2013 5:25:18 PM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		So I am now just considering whether to buy one more copy for my son, then I can teach him what is real PBEM(Play By E-Mail) wargames at matrixgame. Its called PBEM++ server based only.

< Message edited by jiangzhouzi -- 8/5/2013 5:26:10 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 8/5/2013 10:06:08 PM   
rodney727


Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Because you can long and track who's playing this game? My only concern is that if this game hits its swan song and it will sooner or later my fear is the sever will simply go away unless of course you promise the sever will always be supported as long as m/s is around. Can you guarantee that?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

It's not intended as DRM, though I can understand why some might see it that way since it relies on a server. The truth is that it does require additional development time to implement non-server PBEM. For War in the East, we already had non-server PBEM in there when PBEM++ became available. PBEM++ has proven so popular and so much easier than normal PBEM that we wanted to get that in there too, but there was no reason to remove the old PBEM as it was already implemented. For Germany at War, we had a choice to either implement PBEM++ or an improved traditional PBEM system. Between those two, PBEM++ always makes the most sense. I agree that in an ideal world we would be able to do both, but that's not always possible. We have many other games with just PBEM++ and the community has been very happy with them.

If there is enough demand for traditional PBEM, we'll see if it's feasible to add it in. We're not opposed to the idea, it's just additional development time.

Regards,

- Erik



< Message edited by rogo727 -- 8/5/2013 10:11:04 PM >

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 8/5/2013 10:42:08 PM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline 		I am not saying you would and I am not saying I would, but I WILL say this much.

I have watched great games, remain great games, but, the security of the file process was lousy if it was anything at all.

I have seen games where competitive play was worthless, as a file being sent is not immune to inappropriate behaviour.

I applaud the development of Slitherine's opponent matching service. As I see it, the ONLY way I will play vs another is WITH their service and it likely will be the reason they DO remain years from now.

You do not need to agree with me of course, but, then again, I am not required to think old style pbem is worth anything either.

Now I do say not having hot seat is a major nuisance. Because in a lot of cases in the past, I was the only person playing the game, and I was ok with that. Its not easy having a board game set up indefinitely, and THAT is really the only thing that makes computer games superior to board games. Playing the AI is not in my opinion a reason.

Remember boys, Slitherine Group is not EA or any of the other companies that make MMOs that burn out fade away and then become not worth the resources. I expect the servers to remain as long as the company remains. I don't see any reason to panic that one of my games might lose something in 10 years though. Most of my games are lucky to be of interest that long to begin with.

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Post #: 22
RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update - 8/6/2013 12:51:34 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
Because you can long and track who's playing this game? My only concern is that if this game hits its swan song and it will sooner or later my fear is the sever will simply go away unless of course you promise the sever will always be supported as long as m/s is around. Can you guarantee that?


No one can guarantee that, of course. I understand this point of view and in an ideal world we'd have both types. I explained my point of view above, that if we have to choose from a development standpoint where to put our time, PBEM++ makes more sense as it leads to more PBEM games and more community involvement. It's as simple as that.

I have no problem at all with normal PBEM and I understand that the benefit is that it will always be there, no matter what. Most of our games have good old manual PBEM, but from the results we've seen, PBEM++ is just a better solution. The only drawback is that it does require a server.

Where we can do both, we will, but I wanted to make sure to explain that it's not a trivial difference development-wise and that we included PBEM++ in Germany at War simply because it works better, not for any other purpose.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to rodney727)
Post #: 23
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