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Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 9:39:14 AM

mSterian

Posts: 155
Joined: 7/25/2013
Status: offline

Hi there, I'm about to lose a game, but I'm hoping there's something I can do to turn the tables.

I'm second in victory conditions, at about 60%. But above me are the freaking Teekans, who frequently seem to dominate games in terms of victory conditions, at about 76%.

We're at opposite sides of the galaxy which makes military confrutations a bit hard.
They were with a military power rating lower than mine so I thought I'd start a war with them anyway as they have a victory condition about starting wars. They slowed down a bit, got down to about 74% but I'm still afraid they might win this.

What do you guys suggest, should I just avoid military aggresion and just try to increase my victory conditions and hope I do it faster than they do? They have pretty much ran out of room to grow I think. At least until they get some more reasearch done. Should I risk leaving them alone and hope for the best or should I go full out and try to destroy them? That's pretty risky as their military power is quite high.

My best bet is to get some allies to and combine forces against them but that seems quite hard to do. Should I send gifts to all of their neighboring empires and try to get them to be attacked from all fronts? Or is there a better way to get allies?

Something else I could do is to try and get some more victory conditions by conquering the empires with the lowest miltiary power.

What do you think? What do YOU usually do to overcome a victory condition disadvantage over another empire?

Post #: 1

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 10:33:50 AM

Modest

Posts: 172
Joined: 11/26/2011
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline

Hi mSterian :)

I usually start war in such situations. But prepare well for it - make Your explolers have long range scanners, put them in deep space betwen Teekans systems and than attack. You will see their military movments and so, even if they will be stronger You will know where and when they will show. So You will be able to outrun and outsmart them. They will suffer havy loses, while You will suffer just minimal. Jump from their space port, to another and destroy infrastructure. Capture their planets one afther another - metodicaly You will destroy not only their fighting force, but also their possibility to replenish it. Piece by piece until their homeworld will be open for attack - and if You will be able - take it also! That is what I suggest to do :)

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 2

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 10:45:30 AM

shoutdawg

Posts: 10
Joined: 4/11/2013
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I don't know about any of the other races, but I usually play the Teekans. As a strategy to beat them down and since military conflict is tough at the moment, I'd hit them indirectly.

That is, attack their race victory conditions, namely their trade and economics. I'd try any or all of the following:
- Line up pirate missions to attack them.
- Make trades with empires to impose trade sanctions.
- Find some sand slugs to kill (it's one of the Teekan race victory conditions - most sand slugs killed).
- Attack their mining stations and freighters. You don't have to be at war to do this I think... but they may come after you after a while when it starts really hurting.
- Try to increase your trade to outpace them if possible.
- Bait them into a war by parking some "sacrificial lamb" ships in their system until they become annoyed and start a war (another Teekan race victory condition - start lowest number of wars).
- Line up spy missions to blow up some of their mining stations.
- Your empire trade sanctions and blockades (on Teekan planets and mining stations) would also be useful, but may also be a direct invitation to war and/or reactions from other empires.

If you can take away some of their race victory conditions, that's about 5+% knock to their 76%. You may be able to slow them down enough to make some headway.

Another option if you're playing with the Shakturi storyline is to hope they pop soon and the Teekans get on the wrong end of the stick.

< Message edited by shoutdawg -- 7/25/2013 11:07:29 AM >

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 3

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 11:24:32 AM

mSterian

Posts: 155
Joined: 7/25/2013
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Hey these all are pretty good suggestions. Too bad that they're not so much at a macro level and more of micro. I feel kind of bad and unfulfilled when I have to micro to win as the AI does not strategize at that level. I was hoping to beat him at his own game :) But, it's sure better than losing :P

1) Nice tactic with the long range scanners. I'm too noob at the moment to strategize at component design level but I guess I'll try to get into that. And also good details on micro fleet management.
2) Can you explain pirate missions a bit? I've only ever used them to the extent that the advisor suggests them to me. Is there a limit to how many I can send? And how do I know what the expected outcome of those pirate missions is? As far as I'm aware I'm not informed of any of the outcomes of the pirate missions. Anyway, bottom line on this subject is how do I track and manage pirate mission to a full extent?
3) I don't quite get this one. How do I make empires impose sanctions on the Teekans? Most empires don't like me too much (I'm Ugnari or something like that). The ones I do HUGE trade with (40-50k) still hate me pretty much because they "covet" my colonies and resources. I've managed to get one empire to declare war against the Teekans, but for that to happen I had to impose trade sanctions on another empire. I didn't lose anything from that as I wasn't trading anything with that empire anyway :) Of course, afterwards I lifted my trade sanctions. Btw, does such actions decrease my reputation?
4) Any, easy way to find Sand slugs? There might not even be any more left since most of the galaxy is already occupied. Do Sans Slugs spawn other than the ones at the beginning of the game?
5) This one is a bit tricky. I should scout them first to see if there are defenses right? And then send a minimally powerful fleet to destroy them so I don't jog my important fleets around needlesly right? On this subject, how do I, in turn, defend my mining stations?
6) Trade is already skyrocketing. I have 40-50k trade with each of about 4 empires. Any way of increasing this even more? What contributes to trade? Space ports?
7) Hmm... I thought that if I declare war on them I would hurth that victory condition anyway. But as you say it, it must be THEM that declare war to affect that condition right?
8) Please do explain more on the Shakturi as I have no idea what they are and how to trigger them. (I think I DO have the storyline option enabled)

(in reply to shoutdawg)

Post #: 4

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 12:24:06 PM

Modest

Posts: 172
Joined: 11/26/2011
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline

Just remember - long range scanners needs large amounts of static energy, so You will want to put few solar collectors ;) And bigger fules storage... And make sure that You will have at least one Ressuply Ship deployed over fuel spot (Hydrogen or Calson, or both) somewhere inside enemy's territory for quick refuelling. You do use Ressuply Ships, right? ;)

Pirate missions - You select target which You want to get rid of (not ship - bases only) or be raided (planets only) and there should be pirate flag in low left corner (you know, in this interface). That is pirate mission - You klick it and wait until some mercenaries will do it... Chceck first how much does it cost - it may be not worth it ;) Small tip - try to concentrate on one type of strategic resource. Maybe You will cut them of completly? That would be benefical for You :)

Trade is mostly not under Your control. At least not directly. If You want it to be even bigger, make sure that Your mining stations are mining resources that others are not mining. Hard to do that... But there are ultra rare luxuries - Korriban Spice, Loros Fruits and Zentabia Fluid. Capture those, mine them and trade with them. That should improve trade and relations.

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 5

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 12:24:25 PM

shoutdawg

Posts: 10
Joined: 4/11/2013
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Yeah, some micro managing will have to be done... but it is well worth it and demonstrates the flexibility of this awesome game.

1) This was from Modest's post and is a great tip for scouting and fighting a war of attrition.

2) The pirate missions are a bit of gamble since the pirates may or may not succeed (you only pay them if they are successful), but are useful nonetheless. Also, it helps if you have somewhat good relations with a pirate faction. Another tip to note, the chances are usually better if the pirate faction has a considerable amount of firepower.

The available pirate missions can be viewed by clicking on the little pirate flag icon on the left hand side of the screen, between the race flag [potential colonies] and crossed shovel and pick [potential mining locations]. There is no limit, but you need the money to pay for them.

If the mission succeeds, there should be a notification that it was successful and that the money was deducted from your empire. If they fail, you get the notification that they failed and no money gets deducted.

One thing to note about pirate missions as well as spy missions, is that they are not immediate and take quite some time.

3) You don't need to have an empire like you to try and get trade sanctions imposed. Press F5 to open the diplomacy screen and click on the Teekan empire and see if there are any empires that are not on good terms with the Teekans.

Those are the ones you want to trade with. Once you open the trade screen, you will see a list of resources to trade from both sides and keep trying options until you get one that would be accepted. Remember, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Not 100% certain about reputation taking a direct hit from trade sanctions, but I think it may... but you can always kill off some pirates to get this back up.

4) Sand slugs have been a bit of a limited resources in the games I've played. They usually appear early in the games and then are gone by late game. I've mostly found them around asteroid belts and systems owned by other empires (desert type planets).

When I do find them, I usually patrol the area where they were found making sure that at least 1 lives from the hunt since they seem to spawn with at least 1 present.

I don't know if there is a best way to find them, but I'd create some exploration ships and send them to those kinds of locations to see.

5) Yes, scouting would be best to see what you're up against. Depending on the situation, I'd create a strike force to manually control the raids. One thing to do if the mining stations are heavily protected (station defenses as well as Teekan ships), I'd hover around the area and attack the freighters AFTER they get loaded from the mining stations. That way, they not only lose the ships, they also lose the resources they just mined.

Dirty pool... yes, it is. The key thinking here is that this strike force should be considered "expendable" since it will be raiding in enemy territory and , quite possibly, will meet a stronger force once it has raided enough to be deemed a nuisance. Fast destroyers with emphasis on speed and fuel (and enough firepower to destroy freighters and mining stations). These ships should not be constructed for ship to ship battles.

As for mining station defense, depending on your tech level and designs, most stations will have shields and/or some basic weaponry. Some empires may put some ships for defense if it is a critical resource. This is somewhat expensive and also pulls ships away from fleets and strike forces, but this strategy ensures that you have a gas mining station available as a possible refueling point for long way points.

6) Space ports definitely will aid in trade. Also make sure to pick up the "Space Commerce" line of tech in HighTech & Industrial. There are 2 wonders that will definitely boost this:
- Traders Bazaar from "Open Trade Network"
- Trade Guild from "Unlimited Commerce"

The "Docking Bay" branch and "Basic Storage and Payloads" branch in HighTech & Industrial are also useful in increasing freighter and spaceport capacity and throughput.

7) I believe it must be them to start. I've been in several wars as the Teekans (that I didn't start) and this is the easiest race victory condition to achieve.

8) I don't think I should give this away. Especially since it sounds like you haven't experienced this yet. This would be too much of a spoiler.

But what I can tell you is that the Ancient Guardians must be present in the galaxy.

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 6

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 1:38:57 PM

Plant

Posts: 418
Joined: 4/23/2013
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You want some sort of grand strategy to win before the Teekans do? Well, you haven't given sufficient information to form any kind of specific grand strategy, so of course you are going to receive general strategic advice on dealing with another empire on the other side of the galaxy.

I guess one advice that could be given is to decide whether or not you can influence an empire on the other side of the galaxy, which obviously depends on a huge number of factors that you haven't given. If you can't, your best bet is obviously to simply try to achieve your victory condition faster than they can. But in Distant Worlds, there is a degree of randomness, perhaps the Teekans will fall to rival empires all by themselves.

The other option is in future games is to just simply set the victory setting cap to be higher. 80% of 33% is a desperately low victory condition cap, often you can just conquer 1 or 2 homeworlds and win th game that way.

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 7

RE: Help with strategy - 7/25/2013 8:25:48 PM

Starke

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Joined: 6/7/2013
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It looks like the others posters have the bases pretty well covered, but I've also noticed the 'freaking Teekans' nearly always do very well under the AI's direction. =P They can be tough opponents.

The only tip I can add is if you want to align races against them, you can not only see other races' attitude towards you, but other races' attitudes towards each other: just click on the Teekans and you can see what everyone thinks of them. If you want an ally, look for someone that already likes you but has a beef with the Teekans (and ideally possesses a large military, but take what you can get =P ). And this was mentioned above, but I'll put it explicitly - if you attack them without declaring war, and they declare war on you, it was still declared by them, thus lowering their victory condition.

P.S. I don't know how your intelligence network is shaping up, but high-level sabotage agents can put a crimp in any trade-heavy empire by destroying their spaceports. It helped me in my game against them.

(in reply to Plant)

Post #: 8

RE: Help with strategy - 7/26/2013 9:59:44 AM

paShadoWn

Posts: 70
Joined: 6/10/2013
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The strategy for dealing with bloated empires on the other end of galaxy is to move a few planetary destroyers or big bombardment fleets onto their homeworld and largest colonies. What to do next figure yourself.

(in reply to Starke)

Post #: 9

RE: Help with strategy - 7/26/2013 11:25:08 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
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mSterian, a well designed overwhelming fleet going for their homeworld will definitely be a gamechanger, but the more interesting discussion is probably how to improve Strategies on your next game to ensure you have the lead. As others have mentioned, feel free to post more info.

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 10

RE: Help with strategy - 7/26/2013 11:26:50 AM

Icemania

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Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant
The other option is in future games is to just simply set the victory setting cap to be higher. 80% of 33% is a desperately low victory condition cap, often you can just conquer 1 or 2 homeworlds and win th game that way.

Yeah, but once you have those homeworlds, higher victory conditions become even more of a formality.

(in reply to Plant)

Post #: 11

RE: Help with strategy - 7/27/2013 12:41:09 AM

Plant

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Joined: 4/23/2013
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That's true, but the intention was not to run into the problem of another race "winning" relatively early, when there is still the rest of the galaxy to play for.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 12

RE: Help with strategy - 7/30/2013 8:18:57 PM

vlad1492

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Joined: 7/30/2013
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Maybe cheese.

Build small collection of battleships and a constructor.
Send them into enemy territory.
Convert the battleships into no-warp versions using the constructor.
Gift the no-warp craft to some empire that your target doesn't like very much.

Perhaps having forces in their territory and being unable to move them out would trigger a war.

(in reply to mSterian)

Post #: 13

RE: Help with strategy - 7/30/2013 8:41:28 PM

Jeeves

Posts: 940
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: Arlington TN U.S.A
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HUH? How can a constructor rebuild a ship? Never tried THAT in all my playing. It is possible to gift a base that is worthless like a mining station with one cargo bay, which I have done several months ago, but not a SHIP with no warp drive... What you COULD do is have permission from the empire where you build to have a base in their territory, put construction yards on it, and build a fleet of no warp dive ships to make as a gift, but that is a lot of trouble to go to.

Lonnie Courtney Clay
ps, how do you get around the warning that you need a warp drive on a ship design?

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Live long and prosper!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

(in reply to vlad1492)

Post #: 14

RE: Help with strategy - 7/30/2013 9:20:29 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

I agree in that situation with going after their race victory conditions. You need to find some proxies, either pirates or empires near them, to act in your stead if you cannot reach them yourself. Bolster their enemies, recruit new enemies to fight against them, conduct a lot of espionage to sabotage, assassinate and create revolts to knock back their economy.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC