Area Weapons in DW: Shadows

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Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/24/2013 9:05:01 PM

Primordial Soup Nazi

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Joined: 7/24/2013
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Hi folks; long time (off-and-on) DW player, first time poster.

So, I just purchased DW: Shadows, and noticed that "Expanded and improved Area Weapons" was a listed feature. I did a forum search, but didn't turn up any relevant info. I'll be honest; Area Weapons have always been my number-one gripe with this (otherwise awesome) game. How exactly are they improved? Traditionally, they tend to:

1. Clobber your own ships (I think? Its been a while).

2. Clobber any other hapless faction's ships that happen to be in the vicinity, thereby lowering your relations with said faction(s).

3. Have the same effects for other factions with area weapons, throwing everybody's reputation in the dump by late-game.

Have any of these circumstances changed? More "oomph" is about the last thing I'm looking for out of Area Weapons, and if that's the only nature of the "improvements," then, well...that sucks. The last time I played Legends, I didn't even bother researching them at all.

Gotta say, though, absolutely brilliant game, otherwise; I've definitely logged some hours into this one over the past couple of years.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Post #: 1

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/24/2013 10:07:32 PM

Strat_84

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I'm wondering as well, what are the improvements to area weapons beside the graphic effects ?

In my last game I got my hands on the area superweapon, I couldn't resist making a few capital ships to test it. Despite being heavily shielded my ships just got slaughtered, they disabled each others and were finished by pirate escorts while the weapons were reloading.

(in reply to Primordial Soup Nazi)

Post #: 2

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/24/2013 11:05:05 PM

Larsenex

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I never research or buy/trade for Area weapons. They are too much trouble as stated above. In fact the 'super' weapons are a complete waste of space. There was some number crunching a while back. The super beam weapons is TERRIBLE! Its good on a world destroyer where you can pack a few and bring them to bear on a star port but you would get far more efficient firepower out of Torpedoes and Titan beams.

+1 coppers.

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RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/24/2013 11:39:00 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi
So, I just purchased DW: Shadows, and noticed that "Expanded and improved Area Weapons" was a listed feature. I did a forum search, but didn't turn up any relevant info.

I seem to remember Erik indicating that they changed the algorithm, such that AoE weapons won't be triggered if there are too many "collateral damage" targets that would be hit. I don't recall him giving any specifics, so the effectiveness of the change is anyone's guess. About as useful and reliable in battle as Fox News is for staying informed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi
1. Clobber your own ships (I think? Its been a while).

Still happens. Though mitigated (supposedly) in Shadows.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi
2. Clobber any other hapless faction's ships that happen to be in the vicinity, thereby lowering your relations with said faction(s).

Ditto with 1 above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi
3. Have the same effects for other factions with area weapons, throwing everybody's reputation in the dump by late-game.

Ditto with 1 above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi
Have any of these circumstances changed?

Not really. Or not that I've seen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi
The last time I played Legends, I didn't even bother researching them at all.

Usually pretty low on my list as well - but necessary if you want to research Massive Ion Weapons so as to build Giant Ion Cannons on your planets. Not that I've found them (ion cannons) to be cost effective... but if the enemy is going balls-out for a particular planet, every little helps.

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RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/25/2013 12:29:28 AM

Primordial Soup Nazi

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Thanks for the quick replies. Bummer about the lack of Area Weapon revision, though. Seems to me that the only way to get any sort of practical (and safe) usage out of 'em would be to micromanage like a hawk, but this is really more of a macromanagement game, I find. Ah well.

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RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/25/2013 12:44:05 AM

Starke

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Though I've never gotten them myself, I believe there are now gravitic weapons that do AoE NOT centers around your ship - IIRC it targets another ship, drawing other ships towards that point and doing damage to any ships in the area. It sounds more useful than the dedicated area weapons.

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Post #: 6

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/25/2013 6:42:26 AM

feelotraveller

Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Primordial Soup Nazi

Thanks for the quick replies. Bummer about the lack of Area Weapon revision, though. Seems to me that the only way to get any sort of practical (and safe) usage out of 'em would be to micromanage like a hawk, but this is really more of a macromanagement game, I find. Ah well.

Single ships with AoE weapons can be useful. Send them against a heavily defended position and watch the carnage. Even if they suicide the previously impregnable location becomes a soft target for a follow up fleet. Just make sure your single ships stay single and/or switch their engagment stance to do not engage when they are in your own systems (e.g. refueling).

But overall I agree with you.

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RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/25/2013 6:49:22 AM

Strat_84

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Joined: 12/8/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Larsenex
I never research or buy/trade for Area weapons. They are too much trouble as stated above. In fact the 'super' weapons are a complete waste of space. There was some number crunching a while back. The super beam weapons is TERRIBLE! Its good on a world destroyer where you can pack a few and bring them to bear on a star port but you would get far more efficient firepower out of Torpedoes and Titan beams.

Well, it depends. I remember a game back in Legends where a defense station equiped with beam superweapon(s) (I don't remember if it was the beam you can find on worlds destroyers, or several ones of the lighter type) managed to blow a world destroyer before it shoots. It saved a planet.

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RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/26/2013 10:05:46 AM

paShadoWn

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Hmm i use aoe sometimes and never had my ships slaughtering themselves. You just have to have enough shields, point blank on aoe and standoff on rest. AoE is very good at slaughtering late game junk hordes.

The best improvement on aoe weapons was addition of tractors.

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Post #: 9

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/27/2013 12:44:15 AM

Plant

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Joined: 4/23/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Strat_84

Well, it depends. I remember a game back in Legends where a defense station equiped with beam superweapon(s) (I don't remember if it was the beam you can find on worlds destroyers, or several ones of the lighter type) managed to blow a world destroyer before it shoots. It saved a planet.

Any sufficient force can destroy a world destroyer before it shoots. I do suppose the super weapons have better first strike capabilities though, even though it hasn't the damage rate.

(in reply to Strat_84)

Post #: 10

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/27/2013 11:19:28 AM

Strat_84

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant
Any sufficient force can destroy a world destroyer before it shoots. I do suppose the super weapons have better first strike capabilities though, even though it hasn't the damage rate.

As far as I remember, no.

The only other time I remember I managed to destroy a world destroyer before it destroys a planet, that was because his shot missed. That bought me enough time to reach it with my fleet.
If the world destroyer starts its trip in hyperspace with his main weapon loaded there's basically no way to prevent it from destroying a planet except with a superweapon on a defence station and some luck.

Of course it becomes quite easy if you have a gravity well at that planet, but I voluntarily don't take this case into account since I've never reached the necessary tech level before or during a Shakturi attack.

< Message edited by Strat_84 -- 7/27/2013 11:21:13 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/27/2013 2:34:48 PM

turtlefang

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Super weapons are great for destroying planets and your reputation. If you can't invade, you can zap it.

But for ship to ship combat, I haven't found them of much use.

The only area weapon that really works - for me - is the one at the end of the gravity line, put it on a base, and watch it wreck havoc on fleets attacking the base. Of course, by then, I don't need it.

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Post #: 12

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/28/2013 5:02:00 PM

Jeeves

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The Guardians have them on their defense bases, and can really chew up even size 2250 carriers with 2500 shields, since they damage all components regardless of shields and armor. That area gravity weapon is highly effective for defense.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

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Post #: 13

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/29/2013 12:07:44 AM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Hi guys,

The original note meant that we improved the logic for the existing area weapons as far as when they fire and we also added new area weapons with new targeting logic (the gravitic area weapons) that can be fired at range. If you haven't tried those yet, please do!

Based on the feedback we got on the gravitic area weapons, we're going to expand those improvements so that the other area weapons work in a similar way.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 14

RE: Area Weapons in DW: Shadows - 7/29/2013 2:46:53 PM

Plant

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Joined: 4/23/2013
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I've noticed that the gravitic area weapons is fine; it is very rare that any friendly ships are contacting the dangerous area. Unfortunenately, it also means that rather understandably, the gravitic area weapon wouldn't fire because your ships are too close, even if you want them to.

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Post #: 15