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Is this really working as designed?? - 7/28/2013 12:00:49 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		The Russian surrender rules need looking at. I am in another great game with my opponent Battlevonwar. I have played poorly in the east and he is playing a great game and has punished me. However, at this stage I still own Petrograd, Moscow and Tsritsyn (all three capitals). I have a line Odessa, Dnepr, Kharkov, Kursk, Orel, Bryansk, Minsk, Vilna, Kovno and Riga. In the Caucasus I am pushing the Turks back - I own Batumi and Sarikamish.

Despite all this, and despite it being only January 1916, the Russians have surrendered??? That can't be right can it?? I would be grateful for LZ's views on this please.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/28/2013 12:05:07 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805


Post #: 1
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 7/28/2013 12:37:14 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Hate to put back a post but this is to agree with warspite1. At the time of my below post in April there was some discussion on these points. The post is below, I'm still waiting for the next patch.

quote:

I hate to post this, but I think I'll soon stop playing until 1.30 is fixed/replaced.

See other threads but the Russian situation of early surrender plus the perhaps even more the situation of English surrender and/or impotence hurts the game greatly. Even before Russia is out England keeps dropping. Can't really attack can't really defend as either way it just keeps going down.

Great game with great potential but the latest patch situation really hurts it.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 7/28/2013 12:48:11 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

Hate to put back a post but this is to agree with warspite1. At the time of my below post in April there was some discussion on these points. The post is below, I'm still waiting for the next patch.

quote:

I hate to post this, but I think I'll soon stop playing until 1.30 is fixed/replaced.

See other threads but the Russian situation of early surrender plus the perhaps even more the situation of English surrender and/or impotence hurts the game greatly. Even before Russia is out England keeps dropping. Can't really attack can't really defend as either way it just keeps going down.

Great game with great potential but the latest patch situation really hurts it.

warspite1

Hadn't seen this as an issue until now as my opponents hadn't adopted this strategy - and nor had I.

This just makes the game too predictable - all the Germans have to do is adopt a holding pattern in the west and destroy the Russians I would have thought that taking at least one capital was important

Time to put the game away until it is ever fixed I guess


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 3
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 7/28/2013 2:19:16 PM   
JMass


Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I agree, Russia surrends too much easily...

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My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/JMass?own=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1

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Post #: 4
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 7/30/2013 3:52:19 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		....oh and a double whammy. Russia is out of the war in January 1916 and Romania and Portugal's entry into the war is now frozen. In the interests of playability why is that?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to JMass)
Post #: 5
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 7/30/2013 9:21:11 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		This is part of the reason I have not played this game since 1.30 was released. Who wants to played a game half-assed (unless you are really bored)?


(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 6
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 7/30/2013 12:40:48 PM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		In fairness, in both instances where I have managed to KO the Russians I devoted a great deal of resources to this Mission. Both instances the Russians retaliated too strong and did not dig in for a long war. The issue isn't just the Russian Surrender(which OF COURSE should never happen in the beginning of 1916!!! Maybe at the end of it or the beginning of 1917) Plus Portugal and Romania Frozen makes for an easy cakewalk for the Germans/AH/Turks! Without having a sudden 3rd front!

I would like to point out, in all instances of using this strategy I have either Won all or Lost all... It's a do or die gamble and you cannot afford to fail! SO you win or lose.

The Political System needs to be altered! Italy/Romania/Bulgaria influence the game a great deal more than history. Historically, the Italians and AH sat in Alpine Frost. Historically Bulgaria and Romania wouldn't have fielded the type of Armies they do in this game, neither would Serbia for that matter(all her infantry should be replaced with garrisons but 1 on Belgrade and pretty much the same for Bulgaria and Romania). I also think that Austria Hungary's land army is a little too powerful! She could probably do with a tech drop!

Russia cannot be defended because of the power of Cavalry, PERIOD. It owns the Steppe and I am the Cossack not the Russians. Give the Russians some Cossack defenders by Event when things get sticky and it's possible to even the score there. Maybe 2-3-4-5 and enough time to counter with them(a bonus to their fighting capability as well)

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 7/30/2013 12:42:34 PM >

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 7
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/3/2013 10:41:54 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

....oh and a double whammy. Russia is out of the war in January 1916 and Romania and Portugal's entry into the war is now frozen. In the interests of playability why is that?
warspite1

Urgent question please.

Is there anything that can now start the Romanian and Portugese countdown to war or are they stalled for good?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 8
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/4/2013 10:44:22 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

....oh and a double whammy. Russia is out of the war in January 1916 and Romania and Portugal's entry into the war is now frozen. In the interests of playability why is that?
warspite1

Urgent question please.

Is there anything that can now start the Romanian and Portugese countdown to war or are they stalled for good?

warspite1

Guys any chance of a response here? I am in the middle of a game and so it would be really good to know. I have just taken Sofia, hoping that would kick start the Romanians into action - but nothing. Is there anything that can be done or am I wasting my time??

Thank-you.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 9
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/6/2013 11:06:50 AM   
Lord Zimoa


Posts: 837
Joined: 10/10/2008
Status: offline 		We are looking at re-balancing their war entries, but for now no quick solution sorry.

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 10
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/7/2013 8:26:26 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		Any "updates" in the wind?

(in reply to Lord Zimoa)
Post #: 11
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/8/2013 4:43:11 PM   
myness

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		I've played 3 games as the Entente so far, and Russia, regardless of it's position, it seems, has surrendered in early 1916. I love the game and really enjoy the gameplay, but this make the full campaign a non-starter. I hope this gets pushed to the top of the fix pile.

Other than the Russians falling apart early, I love the game!

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 12
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/9/2013 5:32:18 PM   
johnnybravo

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 11/13/2012
Status: offline 		Could you please provide a savegame after which Russia surrenders even tho you think it shouldn't?

(in reply to myness)
Post #: 13
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/12/2013 6:21:48 PM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		Dear Johnny and pretty much everyone else... This is how it works, if the Russian Morale in events takes so many hits, BAM!

Know the formula, cities, Battleship = Death of Russia... PERIOD, there is no random factor to this which destroys game, PERIOD... Anyone who plays the game would know after 10 games, I learned after 5-6

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnybravo

Could you please provide a savegame after which Russia surrenders even tho you think it shouldn't?


(in reply to johnnybravo)
Post #: 14
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/12/2013 10:34:22 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear your problem, However, I just finnished a 1.30 entente game (balanced), The Russians hung in there till the end, they even took Berlin! Matter-o-fact, lost my Russian BB, with Admiral! Thought I was going to be in trouble, and lose the Russians all together, it did not happen!

For those players out there that lose to the AI or whatever; "Learn by your mistakes", keep a close eye on the Production panel, keep a reserve of PPs, don't Cowboy your Manpower away, protect your cities, in time Russia will be a powerhouse.

(in reply to myness)
Post #: 15
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/13/2013 2:48:55 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		Forgot to mention; Germany surrendered 25 NOV 1915, AH shortly before that date. Continued fight with Turkey for some months into 1916, can't say for sure when, possibly near summer.

If I had played all the way through 1916, I would feel justified about my previous post, even more so, if have gone to 1918. So the question of a premature Russian surrender still has room for doubt. Have not played any games vs AI that lasted to 1918, other than my rookie, getting my ass kicked games.

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 16
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/14/2013 12:07:38 AM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: operating


For those players out there that lose to the AI or whatever; "Learn by your mistakes"




(in reply to operating)
Post #: 17
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/14/2013 7:46:25 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating


For those players out there that lose to the AI or whatever; "Learn by your mistakes"





Basically, I like to keep things freindly, and encourge others to enjoy the gaming experience. Maybe you should refer to me as "Operating the Great", but, then again I am a pretty modest individual.

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 18
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/15/2013 10:23:18 PM   
GreyWolf16

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/21/2013
Status: offline 		So - you're advising that it is possible to keep Russia from folding as long as you keep morale up? I was careless with my navy and burnde up my manpower hanging onto cities and like others here - was surprized when Russia folded in 1916. I'll give it one more try and try to keep Russia going.

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 19
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/16/2013 5:54:58 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		It depends on your gameplay style. Having a couple of garrisons (When Turkey goes to war), then later an infantry to defend against Turkey. Don't invest much there, for early on there is not much to gain, also, Turkey does not invest much there either. Eliminate the Black Sea cruiser (20 pps gain), less drag on economy. Buy artillery ASAP, later a fighter. Keep in mind, that at the beginning, you have numerical superiority, send units west of Warsaw to threarten cities, (keeps G & AH off guard) attack cities for mininal loses, if only for the purpose of lowering their PPs. Put a blocking force starting at the Rumainian border going west, just to hold AH from manuvering, 3 or 4 units should do early on, don't attack, unless there is a good opportunity to do so. Try and box in the Danzig port, till artillery arrives, in the meantime try to restrict enemy movements towards Warsaw, make nuisance attacks, if only for the reason to buy time to build up your army, and deploy them in your Western most cities. Keep hitting their cities with small attacks, when possible, eventually you will feel comfortable holding your own, then take it from there. One other thing; when the Baltic convoy comes down, hit the cruiser, 5>1 kill, (convoy only 2-3) counts toward getting an admiral, with a defense rating, keep BB at a 10. There could be an argument about attacking the convoy only, however, the Germans do get smarter after awhile. Other opinions could be better than mine, all I am offering is some basics that I have had sucess with.

(in reply to GreyWolf16)
Post #: 20
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/16/2013 9:00:39 PM   
GreyWolf16

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/21/2013
Status: offline 		Even with that Russia is awfully stretched out - huge front to cover. Has anyone found a way to releive pressure from them before 1916? I'm thinking of a serious deployment of British artillerty in Italy to make a breakthrough toward Vienna...

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 21
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/16/2013 11:34:37 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		Here is a hint; (start of 1914 game) German infantry is so gung ho going for the Belgian coast and Calais, "you let them in". Take the Belgian amored car put it one hex to east, bring your beat up infantry, from Brussels to Antrerpt, then drive French infantry, north and to the east of Leighe to the Dutch border. When the AI sees what is happening, it will do every thing it can to break that French line from the east, that will take a lot of pressure off the Russian front. Take your time annihilating the trapped Germans, the AI will go crazy trying to free them up. In the meantime, Russia has some breathing room to gain strength. Build your own Russian artillery, there just no way the English will be able to get anything to ya, not for a long time. By the way, just take pot shots at the AH cities from the Serbians, watch those cities go to "0", if that is of any help. Good luck! keep in touch.

(in reply to GreyWolf16)
Post #: 22
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/17/2013 7:40:30 PM   
GreyWolf16

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/21/2013
Status: offline 		OK- tried again and thought Russia was doing fine. Fairly strongh line against a tattered CP line and did all I could to press Austria from Italy but with Russia at 48% morale they folded on New Years day 1916. Great game - not complaining but I don't think this is reflective of history. It should take a bit more for the Bolshies to rise up than that.

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Post #: 23
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/18/2013 3:39:51 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		What I do notice; is that morale picks up after capturing cities.

(in reply to GreyWolf16)
Post #: 24
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/18/2013 4:27:06 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Whichever way you slice it the game has balance issues - particularly around Russian exit from the war.

For example in a game I am playing at the moment as the Axis, my Russian opponent owns Danzig, Posen and Konigsberg. Admittedly he has lost the Caucasus, but in so conquering, the Turks are on the run in the Middle East against the British. The Germans have been pegged back to their own border and have lost Strasbourg.

Despite all this, I have just received a notification that a revolt has taken place in Russia !!!!

That is really, really crazy and needs fixing soon.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to operating)
Post #: 25
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/19/2013 2:21:11 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		Did your opponent let you know, what his Russian morale % was, when this happened? Also, wat was the date of this revolt? Had your AH taken Serbia close to this timing, and had Russia lost it's BB? At present, playing a CP 1915 scenario, next will do a E 1916 scenario, to see if anything like what you have experienced will happen, maybe an E 1917 after that. Curious, for I have not seen this revolt yet as an owning player. It's a darn shame that both sides don't know eachothers' status, the AI, sure does know what ours is.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 26
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/23/2013 12:12:34 PM   
suprass81

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 4/23/2013
Status: offline 		And ther is one more emportant question. What if Russia will surender in 1917. Did enybody survived in MP Game until 1917 as CP with Russia alive? I have played over 12 MP games as Entente and all was wan before 1917 if Russia survived. I've lost 3 times as Entente and it was allways after Russia collapse. One from thouse games should be a draw in my oppinion (the one with Battlevonwar) becouse I was able to knock out ottoman Empire. There should be a victory point for Ottoman Empire in my opinion. After Russia surrender there is allmoust no chance to brake CP lines to gain Victory for Entente and staying alive untill the end is very difficult. In my oppinion there should be changes for US entry (did anyboty saw US enter to war?) I think that if Russia Surrender in 1916 there should be set a date of US entry- maybee right after Russia collaps or at last at the end of 1916.
In my oppinion if Germans did not defeat Russia they will die sooner or later.
There is a chance to defend Russia but this is what is game about- if you are better you can defend east and crush CP after that. But after Russia surrender there is no chance to brake CP.
And one more thing- maybe changng starting position of Russian BB to Petrograd will save them for longer war- you can save 10 National Morale points... maybe this will fix the problem
This is what I think after MP games I've played- didn't play against AI.

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Post #: 27
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/23/2013 7:15:45 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		I'm afraid the situation with Russia is now completely ruining the game to the point I see little point starting any new ones.

I am playing as the Axis in one game. I have NO right to win the game - I played the first few turns like an idiot. I decided on about three different strategies, put none of them into practice, and was waiting to be gobbled up.

My opponent is playing a good solid game. He made one mistake in putting too much effort into defeating the Turks but otherwise - and in particular with regards to the Russians - has played a good, solid game. He has lost a lot of the Caucasus, but the Turks are in full retreat in the west so the Turks in the east will soon have to vacate their new found territories.

In western Russia, the Russians have all their cities intact, have taken Konigsberg, Danzig and Posen, and are threatening Lemburg.

I have just got a message to say the Russians have surrendered....

Its 1916 for goodness sake!!!

Please, please, please, there must be a relatively easy fix to stop this happening - even if temporary (that would be better than unplayable). I love this game, but this is just beyond silly.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to suprass81)
Post #: 28
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/23/2013 9:13:50 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 686
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline 		I prefer the 1.0 incarnation to the current 1.3.

I' think I will reinstall and not patch to continue my solo games, and hope for better things ahead.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 29
RE: Is this really working as designed?? - 8/23/2013 11:25:36 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline 		Since the biggest problem with the game at the moment, appears to be that Countries are surrendering far to early & easily,the way I see it the solution to the problem, is pretty straight forward to fix, I have taken a look at the game files, and all Nations as far as I can see, are set to surrender when the country morale reaches 30%, so I have changed that too 10% so that now they won't even think about surrendering until their country has a -90% Morale drop!

Also while reading the comments in this thread, the biggest problem for gamers is the fact that its Russia that is surrendering in 1916,so again I have explored the data files, and the fault lies in the fact that the Russians, get crippled morale wise, if their morale is at 80% in February 1916 ("FebruaryRevolution") they take a massive -30 morale hit, and it gets worse if their morale is 40% in October 1916 ("OctoberRevolution") then they take a massive -35 morale hit, no wonder Russia surrenders, game designers these penalties are far to severe please fix as soon as possible, by means of a hot fix !!

See below for proof! ( Info comes from GAME EVENTS FOLDER )


-- Februari revolution
function FebruaryRevolution()
if GetEvent("FebruaryRevolution") == 0 and GetEvent("OctoberRevolution") ~= 0 then
if game.date.year >= 1916 then
local russia = game:GetFactionById(4)
if russia.morale < 80 then
SetEvent("FebruaryRevolution", game.turn)
ChangeFactionMorale(russia, -30)
end
end
end
end


-- October revolution
function OctoberRevolution()
if GetEvent("OctoberRevolution") == 0 then
if game.date.year >= 1916 then
local russia = game:GetFactionById(4)
if russia.morale <= 40 then
SetEvent("OctoberRevolution", game.turn)
ChangeFactionMorale(russia, -35)
end
end
end
end

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 8/23/2013 11:39:57 PM >

_____________________________

Make it so!

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Post #: 30
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