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RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/20/2013 10:44:41 PM

MDDgames

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feltan

Perhaps I am the only one, but I try to evacuate as much as I can.

If you are lucky: you can get one to three base forces out of the Philippines, and a ton of units out of Singapore. You can't keep them in supply, and they are doomed anyway. Everything you get out gives you some options for a second defense line (Australia for the Philippine units, and Port Blair, Calcutta, various islands for the Singapore evacuees).

Other than that, run away. Run your carriers south/southeast and keep them out of harms way. Losing the two CV TF's early is foolish, and you'll pay for it for over a couple of years. Keep Saratoga in port --- there are subs waiting for you!

Regards,
Feltan

I agree. the few times I play allies, I pack up everything I can from Malaya and Java and get the hell out of town. Esp Dutch base forces. They are way too handy to let die. The only thing you are going to do to the Japs is delay them a little. Frankly, as good as that sounds to the allies, the Jap player (or I should say the SMART Jap player) is going to stop his rampaging in June anyways regardless if you put up roadblocks or not.

I find its better to hold the line where you KNOW he cant keep pushing.

(in reply to Feltan)

Post #: 31

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/20/2013 11:02:17 PM

zuluhour

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If you just pack up and leave the IJA will be in India or Australia before spring.

(in reply to MDDgames)

Post #: 32

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/20/2013 11:06:45 PM

Canoerebel

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It's natural for alert, wary, overwhelmed newbies to want to pack up and skedaddle. Better to live and fight another day after getting some experience under the belt. Perfectly understandable. But Zulu is right. There are many good places to defend and there are many opportunties to sting or slow Japan. The only problem is that it usually takes experience - drat it! - to know when and where. :)

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 33

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:09:23 AM

geofflambert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

If you just pack up and leave the IJA will be in India or Australia before spring.

In my last PBEM against a competent Japanese player, he took all of northern Australia only to have to bug out when I invaded Burma (from India, having abandoned it til I could build up sufficient forces). Any time the Japanese invade India or Australia more likely than not they're overreaching. Having them waste troops in those places is a good thing for the Allied player.

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 34

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:26:59 AM

zuluhour

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CG2?

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 35

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:33:47 AM

Numdydar

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This is very ture because I have done this as Japan lol.

The issue is you know that '42 is your time to run rampant as there is not much in your way to stop you. I can attest, not only is this a bad idea as Japan, it is very hard to resist. After who does not want as Japan to show the Allies what Japan REALLY could have done if they were in charge

While northern Oz is very doable, it gains you very little in the long run as you sure as heck will not be able to keep it if the Allies want it back

I got to Noemea in my game and found out that omg it is a LONG way to there from Rabual or Truk. Talk about exposed lol.

Against the AI (unless you are playing Ironman) there is almost nothing you can do as the Allies and lose. Of course against a human you really need to draw a line and risk everything to hold it. Otherwise it is very easy for Japan to get an AV in '43 just by overruning China. So you need to hold onto high VP locations that Japan did not get in the real war that are outside of China, like Darwin, Calcutta, Cylon, etc.

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 36

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:39:02 AM

Numdydar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

CG2?

Scenerio 2 campaign game where Japan gets extra oil, pilots, ships, (mainly DDs) to give them a more sporting chance

. Mainly used for PBEM games.

If you want a harder AI Japan, then Ironman sceerio is the one you want

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 37

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 5:32:03 AM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

There are some AARs which have just started and many older ones by vets above. Start a couple, find one which suits you and compare notes. Plenty of "tactical" advice is always here. Strategic insight is also well cited by several players. I don't want to recommend one myself because I read half a dozen for different reasons. There are the "classic" ones which players with intimate knowledge of the system itself max out the game on one hand, and others, "romantic" (that's you guys LADM Sprior and Capt'n Mandrake) which provide an alternate side of the war.

So, if it's ok to ask, which are the elite AAR (players) to look at? I'd prefer to leverage some of their vast knowledge to prevent my arse getting kicked around for 3-4 years

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 38

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 5:53:03 AM

jzardos

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So what do people think I should do with all the B18 Bolo MB? Train them for?

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Post #: 39

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 8:42:11 AM

Encircled

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Low Naval bombing or ASW at a guess

I'm still using mine as ASW aircraft in April '43, and they suck, but at least they take the place of decent aircraft that I can use on the front line.

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Post #: 40

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 10:31:17 AM

Sardaukar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

You can put a sub base in the Aleutians as well. I think it is Adak can be built to port size 6. A good site for subs hunting the northern Japanese isles.

Midway and Wake make good spots for an Advanced Sub base. Wake will be a little more exposed if KB is still running around. You will want to move your advanced sub bases forward as the "front lines" move forward with your advance.

Adak and Midway make great advance sub bases. Especially if scenario allows you ARD (floating dock) ships. AS (or 2 preferably), AR and ARD would make a great sub base.

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to rockmedic109)

Post #: 41

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 12:41:14 PM

Feltan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It's natural for alert, wary, overwhelmed newbies to want to pack up and skedaddle. Better to live and fight another day after getting some experience under the belt. Perfectly understandable. But Zulu is right. There are many good places to defend and there are many opportunties to sting or slow Japan. The only problem is that it usually takes experience - drat it! - to know when and where. :)

I certainly was not advocating an unrestrained Sir Robin approach. The fact is, with the Political Point situation, you have to defend some areas -- you can't afford to pack up and skedaddle except for a few key units.

In my opinion, the two unrestricted naval base LCU's in the PI will do the Allies much better service in Oz than needlessly being destroyed in the PI. The III Indian Corps units in Singers are better used in Port Blair and Coccos and other island locations than drawing limited supplies and eventually giving up the ghost for the addition of maybe a few additional days of resistance of the Raffles Hotel.

The real question in my mind is how many, if any, PP you expend to withdraw other units. I agree that a balance has to be struck between creating credible road bumps, and living to fight another day. However, given the situation, I have a strong bias to save as much as I can and fight that other day.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 42

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 1:55:42 PM

Sardaukar

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There are few units one may consider to withdraw. I usually transfer 2 AUS brigades of 8th AUS Div out of Singapore and US Base Force from Cebu..usually sending that to Port Moresby.

There are also reinforcement convoys with 2 Indian brigades, Gurkha brigade and 18th UK Inf Div going to Singapore...they are better off in Burma, IMHO.

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

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Post #: 43

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 2:43:14 PM

Canoerebel

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Feltan, my comments weren't in reply to yours. Mine were in reply to MDD, who said he "packs up everything he can" in Malaya and Java. The more I play, the more I disagree with that approach, but that's due to experience. The point being, I totally understand why newer players err on the side of evacuation. Against certain top caliber opponents, I might do the same today. But in most games, an experienced and capable Allied player is much better off, long term, in picking his places and fighting. Singapore is one of the best places to do so. Exhibit A would be Bullwinkle's current game. There are several other good examples I can point folks to.

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 44

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 3:26:11 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Feltan, my comments weren't in reply to yours. Mine were in reply to MDD, who said he "packs up everything he can" in Malaya and Java. The more I play, the more I disagree with that approach, but that's due to experience. The point being, I totally understand why newer players err on the side of evacuation. Against certain top caliber opponents, I might do the same today. But in most games, an experienced and capable Allied player is much better off, long term, in picking his places and fighting. Singapore is one of the best places to do so. Exhibit A would be Bullwinkle's current game. There are several other good examples I can point folks to.

I think with experience with the engine, the newer LCU rebuild changes in patches (no cadres needed), and air transport a "consolidate and delay" strategy in the Japanese primary belts is a better move than a Sir Robin. There are certainly targets on Java worth defending if they buy 2-3 months.

To me a bigger debate is how to use the RN and USN in the first 6-8 months. There you can get more disagreement. Sometimes sending the carriers deep right away works, sometimes it blows up.

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The Moose

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Post #: 45

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 3:45:29 PM

Lecivius

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I try to save the Cavite Naval Base, and some of the bigger base units. Everyone else gets left to delay the inevitable, but those units are primo.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 46

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:21:26 PM

Lokasenna

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My latest decision has been to save what I can of Cavite Base Force, though I forgot the Asiatic Fleet behind (and I assume I can just rebuild it, honestly). Nothing else out of the PI. This is after seeing what even a trickle of supply can do for the forces there, in Bullwinkle's AAR. Delay long enough outside of your strong points to build forts, then hold there as long as you can with as much supply as you can get in. It's worth losing xAKLs if every other or one in every three makes it through to unload 1000 or 2000 supplies, in my opinion.

Same deal in Malaya. I think it's worth pulling out some units (the RAF air HQs, for example, and some other support units) but I'm leaning that you should leave as many combat forces behind as you can stomach losing, to delay longer. There are several points down the Malayan peninsula, assuming no Mersing gambit, at which you can delay the invasion before it gets to Singapore - giving you more time to build forts and use up less supply there. I'm thinking Kuala Lumpur and Johore are good places to build up some forts to try to last through a couple of attacks before retreating. Doing so may allow you to get forts in Singapore to 4 or even 5 before he crosses the causeway, and if you have enough combat power in place behind those forts that forced shock attack can be devastating to him and severely disrupt his timetable. It may be the most important thing you can do early, aside from making larger strategic decisions on where you're going to focus your shipping/bombing efforts/etc.

(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 47

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:37:34 PM

AW1Steve

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What about the EAB in the PI? That would be useful in building airfields in Oz and other places. Or the two Australian brigades? You can combine them with units in OZ to make a experienced and respectable division.

And is it truly worthwhile to get more supply to Singapore? Even at the cost of merchant shipping? And is it ever worth re-enforcing with more fighter squadrons?

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Post #: 48

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 4:49:10 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

What about the EAB in the PI? That would be useful in building airfields in Oz and other places. Or the two Australian brigades? You can combine them with units in OZ to make a experienced and respectable division.

And is it truly worthwhile to get more supply to Singapore? Even at the cost of merchant shipping? And is it ever worth re-enforcing with more fighter squadrons? ��

IMO the EAB is worth more there building forts. Oz has enough engineers to build air fields for non-existent airplanes for months. What engineers you have should be at Perth IMO.

It's worth it to get supply to Singers, you bet. Five xAKLs? Ten? Who cares when you can tie down 6-8 IDs?

The Aussie brigades can be reformed to the division, but I think they need Lark and the other "bird" units, and they're harder to corral in the mayhem. There it's to taste, but for me the brigades were the absolute backbone of the Singers defense. Is 2-3 months of delay at Singers worth two brigades? I say yes; you may not think so.

Singers is not worth extra fighters. Maybe a few to backstop the TBs until the forts are over 3, but after that no. Just way too many big Oscar bases in range. I think I spent too many fighters at Singers as it was. I would do things differently next time.

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Post #: 49

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 5:20:56 PM

AW1Steve

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So if I understand correctly , Singapore and the PI are primarily useful to the allied player in slowing down the INJ? And that the main goal should be to build up forts and forces in Singapore and somewhere in the PI (I'm assuming Bataan) to last as long as possible? Should those two areas draw off supply from other bases? Should combat units retreat to those strongholds , or stay in place as "speed bumps"? Or should some stay and some go? (Which should do which?). And should PP's be used to change leaders in those places? Should certain ships be "sacrificed" to provide a service in those ports? (As was done to USS Canopus in Corregidor).

I've got some ideas myself, but it's always great to hear from more talented and experienced players , and hopefully my questions might be some use to "newbies" who might not yet know what questions to ask.

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Post #: 50

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 5:46:38 PM

Lokasenna

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Absolutely abandon the areas south of Manila on Luzon. They're open terrain and just asking for a slaughter. I'm not sure that even Manila is worth fighting for, as if you lose Clark before Manila your units will retreat to Bataan. I'd rather have all of my combat power in one place (Clark and then Bataan) and behind as many forts as possible, as split up they're no match for even the starting Japanese invasion forces - particularly Manila and southwards.

Depending on your opponent, you may not be able to do much with Mindanao. Richard III shut down any thoughts I had towards consolidating on Mindanao with well-timed (first couple of days) and well-placed invasions of Davao and Cagayan, effectively splitting what little forces are on the island in 2. I have no hope of recombining the battalions that start at Dadjangas/Zamboanga/somewhere else since Dadjangas is cut off, meaning my eventual last stand is a bit diminished if it can even occur.

If you can buy even 1 month by putting up a hearty defense of Singapore and Bataan, then you may force him to have to finish his conquest of the SRA without the amphibious bonus. Which is huge, IMO, because then you can make him pay some more in time in places like Batavia and Soerabaja. Maybe even in Burma.

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 51

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 6:07:24 PM

Canoerebel

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Singers and Clark are easy to defend until the supply runs out. Japan can force the issue by concentrating bombers on the two bases, but it still takes time. If the Allies are proactive in defending Singers and bringing in supplementary supply early it can take Japan months to reduce the base. Because of the troops tied down there and the city's key location, those months can be absolutely vital to both sides. Holding Singers into February or March complicates Japan's sitaution and makes it tougher and less efficient to move on places like Burma, India and Ceylon.

I devote alot of PPs to replacing leaders at Singers. I've paid 150 to get rid of Percival, others to replace commanders of some of the big combat units, and I always swap out the leaders of the big AA units.

But this is one of those topics that has limitless permutations. Some are for it, some are against it, and there's nearly an infinite number of in betweens. But I can't imagine evacuating Singers or giving it up without much of a fight. IMO, that's crazy sauce.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/21/2013 6:08:22 PM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 52

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 6:41:33 PM

zuluhour

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+1

ps Oddly enough, I could not relieve Percival this game. I think the option disappeared or I missed the chance.

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 8/21/2013 6:42:46 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 53

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 6:59:27 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Singers and Clark are easy to defend until the supply runs out. Japan can force the issue by concentrating bombers on the two bases, but it still takes time. If the Allies are proactive in defending Singers and bringing in supplementary supply early it can take Japan months to reduce the base. Because of the troops tied down there and the city's key location, those months can be absolutely vital to both sides. Holding Singers into February or March complicates Japan's sitaution and makes it tougher and less efficient to move on places like Burma, India and Ceylon.

I devote alot of PPs to replacing leaders at Singers. I've paid 150 to get rid of Percival, others to replace commanders of some of the big combat units, and I always swap out the leaders of the big AA units.

But this is one of those topics that has limitless permutations. Some are for it, some are against it, and there's nearly an infinite number of in betweens. But I can't imagine evacuating Singers or giving it up without much of a fight. IMO, that's crazy sauce.

I imagine you look for higher Land skills on the combat units, obviously. But what skill do you look for in the AA units, Admin to help with disabled devices? Or some other trait for another reason? I've never considered replacing the commanders of Arty units of any type.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 54

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/21/2013 8:24:28 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

So if I understand correctly , Singapore and the PI are primarily useful to the allied player in slowing down the INJ? And that the main goal should be to build up forts and forces in Singapore and somewhere in the PI (I'm assuming Bataan) to last as long as possible? Should those two areas draw off supply from other bases? Should combat units retreat to those strongholds , or stay in place as "speed bumps"? Or should some stay and some go? (Which should do which?). And should PP's be used to change leaders in those places? Should certain ships be "sacrificed" to provide a service in those ports? (As was done to USS Canopus in Corregidor).

I've got some ideas myself, but it's always great to hear from more talented and experienced players , and hopefully my questions might be some use to "newbies" who might not yet know what questions to ask.

Slowing down, yes. Using up combat engineers too. Forts and supply are the key to Singers and Bataan. Some like Clark; it's an argument. I like to hold as long as I can at Clark to buy time to build Bataan, then fall back, build to Forts 4, then send some engineers forward to die when you can't feed them. But watch the Support the engineer units provide.

I put Singers on stockpile on the first day and build like crazy. I retreat every non-combat unit there the first week. Also most of the combat units. I try to rally point at Malacca or similar, but the fragments of the Indians that start mid-Malaysia on the east coast take forever and a day to get to the rail head. Often they're crushed by the time they do and they weren't worth waiting for in order to re-combine the division.

All I retreated out of Singers was some non-Support av HQs. Pretty quickly Singers' AF is wrecked.

I changed Perceval for a CO with very high Admin and it helped a lot in pulling in replacement. Another reason to max supply from the beginning. I eventually replaced every CO I think, even the arty. High skills help them recover after attacks which is as important as performance in the attack itself.

I sacrificed a bunch of XAKs and xAKLs, and a handful of MLs and HDMLs. The CLs I managed to lose elsewhere just fine.

The speed bump theory is misplaced IMO so long as the amphib bonus is in place. Frags are really very small bumps, but when you have a big stack of frags in a base with supply they can do great things.

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(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 55

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 3:32:52 AM

geofflambert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I've got some ideas myself, but it's always great to hear from more talented and experienced players , and hopefully my questions might be some use to "newbies" who might not yet know what questions to ask.

Experienced, perhaps, but "talented"? Bullwinkle simply has bigger antlers than anyone else. Do not be bullied!

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 56

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 3:35:56 AM

AW1Steve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I've got some ideas myself, but it's always great to hear from more talented and experienced players , and hopefully my questions might be some use to "newbies" who might not yet know what questions to ask.

Experienced, perhaps, but "talented"? Bullwinkle simply has bigger antlers than anyone else. Do not be bullied!

Actually I meant the gentleman from Georgia.

A former AW taking advice from a "bubblehead"? Not gonna happen....

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Post #: 57

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 3:38:26 AM

AW1Steve

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So mr. Gorn....ready to get together for a drink or two? I've more or less moved in across the river from you.

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Post #: 58

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 3:43:19 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I've got some ideas myself

I'll go with geoflammbert here, Steve. Sprechenzie!

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Post #: 59

RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 3:55:23 AM

geofflambert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

So mr. Gorn....ready to get together for a drink or two? I've more or less moved in across the river from you.

Let's see, my calendar is so very busy on Saturdays, I don't know if it's possible. Actually, is there any sort of bar cuisine you might care to dabble in? Like raw crawdads fresh from the river? Not. I have a couple of friends who are wargamers going back into the '80s and we usually go on safari to some saloon on Saturday afternoon, so give us an idea about the ethnicity you desire for your tapas on this occasion, and we'll find the place. Almost anything is available in river city, save, regrettably, gorn fare.

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 60