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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> Dec 4, 1942

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Dec 4, 1942 - 8/19/2013 8:33:20 PM

John 3rd

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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Combat Report
December 4, 1942

We're back rolling!

Tried calling Dan but he was 'out to lunch.' Simply wanted to make sure this is what he wants to do. I thoroughly understand burnout and how this game can simply takeover one's life. Just for the record we will add that life here is still crazy and far busier then I would like. Turns should be about one/day with occasional skips due to work issues at the store.

North Pacific
Quiet. Some shipping spotted over at Kodiak.

Central Pacific
Quiet. Have several supply and fuel TF making their normal runs.

South Pacific
There is activity in NE Australia. I'd be willing to make a bet that Dan will try to grab something CHEAP in this area. A Convoy is lifting the 38th ID from its position on Horn Island to bring back to Sumatra. Have another Convoy bringing an Atoll Defense Unit as well as Naval Guard to keep the position strong to hold out against anything short of a Division+ Attack.

Most of my aerial striking power is concentrated at Lae: we have about 100 Fighters, two Daitai of Betty, a Daitai of Vals, and a Daitai of Kates training and watching. This force can be supplemented from elsewhere if activity is noticed.

A small STF of 2 CL and 9 DD sits at Rabaul. It is a reaction force if needed.

Australia
NW and Western Aussieland is quiet.

Malaya
The 48th ID reaches Singora and begins to redeploy. This ID shall blast the Brit 18th ID from its base.

Have a strong Brigade unloading at Singapore. Plan to add it to my Western Sumatra Attack and am shifting it from large APs to smaller AKs.

Victoria Point has been pounded by Allied Warships ever since the Sumatra--Malaya landings. Unfortunately for Dan his last two attacks haven't done much and so the base has moved to somewhat operational (Runway clear but Service Damage at 50). Move two large units of Kates and Vals to this base. Attack is set for 6 hexes and we hope to PLASTER the next bombardment TF to come visiting. Be nice to knock his regular bombardments off kilter some...

Georgetown has been completely closed but Taiping is quickly growing in strength. Don't think my opponent has noticed this because there have been no bombs dropped on the facility. Have two Sentai of Tojos here as well as a Daitai of Vals present.

Sumatra
With the fall of Medan last turn the EASTERN Sumatra campaign is now at a crossroads for Dan. He MUST take Tand??? but I have had lots of time to build it up (Forts 4 and AF about to go to 3). The AV is over 650 presently and looking very nice. The 14th ID is now fully unloaded and waiting for anything to approach. Any bombarding TF that comes in will be greeted by 3 CD units. It will be a hot mission if he tries that.

With a fresh ID unloaded at Tand??? I order BB Musashi and 2 CA to move up the coast to a position terminating above Langsa. Perhaps this potent force will catch something hugging the shores...

Over in WESTERN Sumatra we have the 10th ID, which drove back Allied to units to Sibolga, is now moving SW to aid the 2nd ID in taking Sibolga. This move is a bit of a risk since I could have TWO ID in Tand??? instead of one. If we can quickly free-up Sibolga then I can support Tand??? from that direction as well. Also would allow me to move up the coast to threaten Langsa and/or Sabang.

Siberoet FALLS this day! The base is bombarded by 1 BB, then 4 BC, and finally by 6 CA. The SNLF Assault Brigade goes in and scores a 37-1 result. The two Allied units surrender and 2,220 POWs fall into Japanese hands.

Those three Bombardment TF are about to concentrate everything on Sibolga next.

Next target Nias...

Near Sumatra
Port Blair gets the attention of over three dozen B-17/B-24. The raids come in four packets and are met by 40+ Tojo and Nicks. Five of the big planes are shot down and the AF takes slight damage. There is only a single AA unit here and it is about to get FIVE more added to it. This should serve a bit of notice to those bomber pilots!

KB slides due west (by the map) moving away from Sumatra and will begin to angle in towards cutting the Allied supply line in about 3 days.

Burma
Continued interesting developments. He has moved nearly all of his high performance fighters to Sumatra so my Bombers and Fighters are doing pretty well. Still have about 250 planes up here doing pretty fair work.

2nd TK Div just smashed two British units due west of Magwe a couple of days ago. This potent force now moves NE to meet the 7th Indian ID that just entered the clear terrain from the forrest. LRCAP the TK Div with nearly 80 Fighters in anticipation of his bombers hitting it tomorrow.

We still hold the hex east of Ramree with a full ID, Eng Rgt and 4 Art Bn. It will take a pretty big hit to blast these troops out. Due south (along the coast) is a Birgade, 2 TK Reg, and RF unit. They cover the line-of retreat from the Ramree hex if needed. Prome is solid and the hex NE of there now has two Brigades, Artillery, and a some Engineers.

Dan's main force is at hex 56,48 on the west side of the Irrawaddy. This powerful stack contains a Brit Brigade, 6th Aust ID, and 7th Aust ID. Though worn down by the constant campaigning, Respect must be given to this potent force. Think that Dan is in a conundrum here. He has units spread in the two hexes angling from 56,48 towards Prome. If he advances his main units that direction then he is entering a sack with Japanese on three sides. IF he moves there, I shall not hesitate to cross the river and advance upon his rear. Within a few days I could have 2nd TK Div and two full strength ID moving to accomplish this. We'll have to see what he wants to try!

Northern Burma still holds though there are lots of small units moving about. The 12th ID is now at Shwebo and is my strongest unit without an assignment currently. Two ID refit in Rangoon presently but they are at about 50% strength.

China
The big victory at Kweilin on Dec 1st presents new opportunities for the Japanese. Planning:
1. Clear the RR moving east towards Changsha. Two ID just moved into hex east of Kweilin and will attack the Chinese present.
2. A Drive north is possible. I am thinking of threatening Kunming.

Ideas here would be helpful.

Have opened the aerial assault on Chungking. For the last three days roughly 50 Fighters and 75 Bombers have pasted the AF. AF is now at 70% damage and we're destroying aircraft on the ground.

Naval Reinforcements
Due to my utter stupidity, the 3 CVL (Chitose, Mizuho, and Chiyoda) will be arriving without air groups. Read the RA development thread for that debacle. Will have to figure out how to equip them so they can aid the Kaigun as quickly as possible.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/19/2013 11:49:07 PM >

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Post #: 1201

Siberoet FALLS - 8/19/2013 8:36:45 PM

John 3rd

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Screenshot:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1202

Burma - 8/19/2013 8:49:35 PM

John 3rd

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Here is Burma as I described.

The LOVELY Pink color denotes either a Japanese TK Div or an Inf Div. The RED line is the box I was speaking of...

EDIT: I forgot to circle the 2nd TK Div as it moves NE towards that Indian ID.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/19/2013 8:50:37 PM >

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Post #: 1203

December 5, 1942 - 8/20/2013 11:28:21 PM

John 3rd

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Combat Report
December 5, 1942

An interesting but fairly calm turn.

KB moves off and away from Sumatra moving NNW. The TF refuels from my AOs. Split off the CVEs and send them back to Soerabaja. I have a new job for them...

Port Blair
Dan moves some (all?) of his CVs to a range of 4 hexes from Port Blair. This is a surprise but he must be disappointed when his B-24 arrive FIRST and my Fighters plaster 6 of 12 Bombers THEN a SWEEP of 88 F4F come in. I had pulled two Tojo Sentai due to morale getting low so the fight with the Liberators brought most of my 26 Fighters down so the Sweep achieved nothing. A Squadron of 18 SBD accompany the attack a moment later and waste their bombs on DD Tokitsukaze. In case he comes again, I move 4 large, rested Daitai/Sentai to Port Blair and clear the harbor of shipping. BB Mutsu is still here and I ordered her to prepare for sailing yesterday. If Dan attacks the Port he will probably sink her. If not, then I will try to save her by moving to Tavoy or Mergui.

Victoria Point
In the spirit of how this game has gone from the beginning, I spot an Allied TF moving in to Bombard VP and NONE of my planes fly. In the AM flight operations are cancelled due to inclement weather and in the afternoon no one can find his TF. CRAP! Another carefully laid trap wasted. Order out the 2 Fighter Groups, the Vals, and Kates. No point in allowing him to take a crack at all those airframes...

Sibolga is struck by 4 CA in a Bombardment that is largely ineffective. Order a BB, 4 BC, and 6 CA to plaster it tomorrow. The Allied troops here look pretty weak. Think about ordering 2nd ID to strike but will wait a few days for the 10th to arrive.

Burma
The 2nd TK Div moves into the hex occupied by the 7th Indian ID. Order EVERY Bombers in the Theatre to hit it. Add to this nearly 150 Fighters set to LRCAP. This could be an interesting hex tomorrow! I'd like 2nd TK to have less disruption (38%) but I order the Shock Attack anyway and we'll hope for the best.

China
Attack the three weak Chinese units at 76,53 NE of Kweilin. Just miss a 1-1 (482-547). Order four Sentai of Bombers to strike here tomorrow and place the two Japanese ID to Shock Attack. They have little-to-no disruption so we'll have hopes for a good result here.

My bombing campaign against Chungking scores 6 supply hits this day. NICE!

Engineering
Padang AF-5
Merauke AF-2
Chiba AF-5

For this campaign, it was a fairly calm round...

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/21/2013 12:14:51 AM >

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Post #: 1204

RE: Dec 4, 1942 - 8/21/2013 1:40:14 AM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Naval Reinforcements
Due to my utter stupidity, the 3 CVL (Chitose, Mizuho, and Chiyoda) will be arriving without air groups.

Not a complete solution but does it help to move the units from some CVE's to the CVL's and expand the groups? CVL's have to be better that CVE's no? Maybe move some ASW groups to the CVE's?

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Post #: 1205

RE: Dec 4, 1942 - 8/21/2013 4:25:00 AM

Flicker

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John 3rd - I'm happy to see that you and CR are continuing the game. I enjoy reading both AARs and y'all are great at keeping your audiences informed. Carry on!

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Post #: 1206

RE: Dec 4, 1942 - 8/21/2013 7:01:51 AM

John 3rd

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Mr. Dillworth: I agree with your idea on using those air groups. I've got some Vals, Kates, and Zero Chutai that could be expanded. Will do that.

Thanks Flicker. Life is still pretty crazy and Dan is fighting burnout so I am glad we're moving as well. Not too sure HOW LONG we'll go but it will certainly be interesting until then!

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Post #: 1207

RE: December 5, 1942 - 8/21/2013 4:46:29 PM

janh

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Great to know that you guys are back on track with this game! It is in a pretty unique and exciting state, and I think it is impossible to predict how this Sumatra adventure will end. Looks pretty much in balance right now.

How many CV are spotted at Port Blair? Any missing? I imagine he doesn't like the thought of an open airfield in his left flank and adding to his 4EB to close it for once. If that happens his 4EB can probably keep it closed without bad losses to your CAP. The 4EB alone don't seem to get the job done. Any chance of giving him a rude awakening there with KB from his back and some LBA?

I admit was very puzzled by his landings on the Malayan peninsula, I don't think they can have had any serious intention of being more than diversion raids cutting the rail connection to Singers. Expensive attempts, whatever they are. Maybe he wanted to cut the sea lane/supply flow to Burma, but as long as KB can reroute around Sumatra to cover from Port Blair, you can still get convoys past that choke point? Maybe grounds for a CV battle there...

Can you recount what LCU you spotted on Sumatra? How many of the US infantry and marine divisions are among them, i.e. any chance of Dan pulling off a surprise elsewhere? I'd be looking towards the Hebrides or New Guinea once again, or perhaps his failed Western Australia attempt? Any suspicious signs elsewhere?

< Message edited by janh -- 8/21/2013 4:49:00 PM >

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Post #: 1208

RE: December 5, 1942 - 8/21/2013 6:59:56 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

Great to know that you guys are back on track with this game! It is in a pretty unique and exciting state, and I think it is impossible to predict how this Sumatra adventure will end. Looks pretty much in balance right now.

How many CV are spotted at Port Blair? Any missing? I imagine he doesn't like the thought of an open airfield in his left flank and adding to his 4EB to close it for once. If that happens his 4EB can probably keep it closed without bad losses to your CAP. The 4EB alone don't seem to get the job done. Any chance of giving him a rude awakening there with KB from his back and some LBA?

I admit was very puzzled by his landings on the Malayan peninsula, I don't think they can have had any serious intention of being more than diversion raids cutting the rail connection to Singers. Expensive attempts, whatever they are. Maybe he wanted to cut the sea lane/supply flow to Burma, but as long as KB can reroute around Sumatra to cover from Port Blair, you can still get convoys past that choke point? Maybe grounds for a CV battle there...

Can you recount what LCU you spotted on Sumatra? How many of the US infantry and marine divisions are among them, i.e. any chance of Dan pulling off a surprise elsewhere? I'd be looking towards the Hebrides or New Guinea once again, or perhaps his failed Western Australia attempt? Any suspicious signs elsewhere?

Good Thoughts janh. My next Posting will cover a good chunk of your comments but me hit the nail on the head regarding your last one.

If I was Dan I would try to open another Front on the cheap. This is why I am pulling the CVEs. They are heading to Soerabaja and then Rabaul. They may not be much but they do carry nearly two full CVs worth of firepower. I think he did move troops in that diversion up the coast of Australia. Those troops are still there and could be used. ALL his CVs appear to be at Port Blair. Those CVEs could cause some havoc if used correctly against a weakened force.

These are my thoughts...

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Post #: 1209

Port Blair - 8/21/2013 7:08:56 PM

John 3rd

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December 6, 1942
Port Blair Area

This is quite an exciting day for the defenders of Port Blair. A very calm morning of no activity gives way to massed strike from US and British CVs. A massed strike of 90 F4F, 169 SBD, and 30 Avengers arrive to find 77 Japanese Zeros, Nicks, and Tojos in fine fighting form. The Japanese fighters do very well and take only 9 losses over the base as the Allies work their way into their targets. Roughly 2/3 of the strike concentrates on the AF and the remaining 1/3 goes after crippled Mutsu sitting in the Port. Results must be very depressing to the Allied Commander because over 30 Allied planes are destroyed in exchange for light damage to the AF (23 Runway Hits) and 7 (4 500 and 3 1,000lb) bomb hits on the BB. Allied losses are appraised at: 19 F4F, 12 SBD, and 6 Avengers plus damage to a BUNCH MORE.

To raise the stakes (fighting on home turf), the Japanese fly in another Tojo Sentai and Zero Daitai to raise the fighter total to nearly 150 possible planes. CAP is set to 80% tomorrow and we'll see if this bloody nose can be added to...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/21/2013 7:09:41 PM >

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Post #: 1210

December 6, 1942 - 8/21/2013 7:32:23 PM

John 3rd

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Combat Report
December 6, 1942

Detailed some already but we'll hit all the action.

North--Central--South Pacific
Calm...

Sumatra
Sibolga
Have decided to order an attack at Sibolga. The 2nd ID is at 4 disruption and has lots of supplies. We shall see 1 BB, 4 BC, and 6 CA POUND this base tomorrow night. The troops present have been hit by 150+ bombers everyday for 4-5 days. That total will climb to 250+ bombers tomorrow. MUST take this base! If we can secure it then the two ID will immediately head NE to Tand??? and pose a serious threat to Dan's right flank. If this attack fails we shall have the 10th ID arrive in 2-3 days where we'll finish off the Allied lodgement.

The hex north of Tand??? (46,77) sees the 1st Marine ID and two smaller Inf Units knock the shattered remains of the Medan blocking force back into the Tand??? hex. For some reason he allows the TK unit to pursue. I shall CRUSH it tomorrow and drive it from the hex! The chance to shatter another unit cannot be underestimated.

Am going to tempt Sabang on the northern tip. Send a small STF of 4 DD to probe what is present. Maybe my Long Lancers may get lucky. Trying to take a page from the 'Little Ship That Could' AAR.

Port Blair
Already detailed above.

Victoria Point
The Allied TF arrives to bombard the target and scores ZERO hits! Outstanding. Will wait a day and then move my ambush force back into position.

Burma
My plan to blast the 7th Indian ID out of hex 57,45 works to PERFECTION! The Indians are smothered under 198 Bombers who inflict over 500 Casualties. Dan tries to interdict with his B-25s and a weak CAP of Hurricanes but they are severely punished by 50 Tojo and Zeros flying LRCAP. Losses amount to 8-10 Hurricanes and a similar number of B-25s plus many more damaged. The Tanks roll in and score a 12-1 victory! For 52 Japanese Cas, the Indian Division is smashed for 2,863 Cas, 57 Guns, and 28 Vehicles.

2nd Tanks SNARLS and pivots. It will head south towards those damned Aussies.

Redirect the bombers to hitting all along the Allied lodgement pointing towards Prome.

Kido Butai
See the screenshot below. KB will go to a Flank Speed sprint NNW in an attempt to catch shipping moving around in the area. If Dan chooses to pull his CVs away from Port Blair, life could be very exciting. The CVs currently have 700 or so aircraft available. My bet is that Dan will stay near Pt Blair one more turn and then retreat once KB makes its move. Course I've been wrong a bunch in this game so we'll see...

China
Attack 76,53 and score a 1-1 against the three Chinese units here. Disruption climbs some so we'll rest a day or two and redirect all bombers to pound the enemy here paving the way for a good result. The 40th ID is tasked with moving out of Kweilin and aiding the assault.

SS Action
My I-Boats have taken many shots but scored few hits recently. Well...they got a big one today when I-23 plants pair of torps into AP West Point about 6 hexes NW of Sabang. NICE!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/21/2013 7:33:40 PM >

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Post #: 1211

RE: December 6, 1942 - 8/21/2013 8:19:18 PM

zuluhour

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D/L on Kido Butai?

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Post #: 1212

RE: December 6, 1942 - 8/21/2013 8:33:48 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I-23 plants pair of torps into AP West Point about 6 hexes NW of Sabang.

Anything in her or was she empty?

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Post #: 1213

RE: December 6, 1942 - 8/21/2013 9:01:03 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I-23 plants pair of torps into AP West Point about 6 hexes NW of Sabang.

Anything in her or was she empty?

Empty.

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Post #: 1214

December 7, 1942 - 8/21/2013 9:20:11 PM

John 3rd

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Combat Report
December 7, 1942

One year ago today. Have had an awful showing to this point...

North--Central Pacific
Nothing

South Pacific
Have loaded 38th ID from Horn Island and it is now heading for Sibolga.

Sumatra
Sibolga
The Port is pummeled by two bombardments and over 300 casualties are inflicted. 2nd ID goes in misses a 1-1 attack by about 15 points. The 10th ID arrives in the hex and we will Shock Attack to take the hex/base tomorrow.

Tand???
The 763rd TK Bn is CRUSHED by a 257-1 attack from the Japanese defenders. He now knows what is present in the hex.

That small STF of 4 DD will mess with Sabang tomorrow.

NEWS
It appears that a massed Invasion Fleet is approaching Port Blair. Two days away at this moment. His CVs stay close and launch a strike of 86 F4F and 98 TB at the Port. Mutsu takes 3 bombs and he loses another 8-10 planes with sorties expended and wear-and-tear mounting. If he chooses to land at Port Blair he will find an AV of 500+. Sz-4 Forts, lots of supplies, and 250 mines. Makes sense to do this. We'll see about his fortitude.

KB makes its spring and arrives JUST SHORT of attack range of nearly 8 Convoys. Just how this game has gone for a solid year. KB is less then 10 hexes from the Allied DEATH STAR. What will Dan do? He has an Invasion Force moving but highly vulnerable. Truly HOPE he cancels and pulls away. Am in no mood for an 'all the marbles' fight at the moment but will if I have to. Move KB 5 hexes NW and try and bag shipping heading for Ceylon and to see what he elects to do. Order 10 SS to move into the area near Port Blair and his CVs.

Burma
Fly in Zero Daitai to Rangoon and Moulmein. Have 8 Betty/Nells units resting and able to jump into the attack if it is to be Port Blair. There is the 9th Aor Fleet HQ at Moulmein and an Air Flotilla at Rangoon. LOTS of Torps!

Prome flies an assault of 22 Tojo and 23 Betty at shipping in Ramree and easily plasters the 10 Hurricanes flying CAP while then sending two AKs to the death. NICE!

Malaya
My Inf Brigade arrives at Taiping. Order it to advance on Alor Star.

48th ID is about to enter the hex between Singora and Alor Star. The ID will then blast the pair of units sitting there and advance on its main objective.

Move my ambush group back to Victoria Point. Have 72 Fighters, 60 DB, and 60 TB ready to fly.

SS OPs
I-18 sinks AK Vancouver City near Car Nicobar

BIG THINGS will happen this coming turn or the next. The war just might be decided in a big way...I am headed to work so no new turn until this evening. SORRY!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/21/2013 9:22:01 PM >

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Post #: 1215

The Battle Arena - 8/21/2013 9:24:26 PM

John 3rd

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Here is a far better screenshot of the fighting area:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1216

RE: The Battle Arena - 8/21/2013 9:47:00 PM

Chickenboy

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Oh gee...lookee lookee...

If you get closer to the Allies, you stand a good chance of having a number of your strikes diverted by Allied shipping before you can get at his carriers.� You know, a cynic would say this was an ideal opportunity for the Allies to attack land targets (which your opponent rarely does) with their fleet carriers as a pretext whilest getting 'behind' an arc of sortie soaking shipping.� Someone who was skeptical would say that this arc of shipping was intentional contrived to shield the carriers which just so happened to be behind it for the last three turns.

I assume that he won't have any compunction about moving the Allied carriers into battle after diluting your striking power accordingly?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 8/21/2013 9:48:39 PM >

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Post #: 1217

RE: The Battle Arena - 8/21/2013 10:42:38 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oh gee...lookee lookee...

If you get closer to the Allies, you stand a good chance of having a number of your strikes diverted by Allied shipping before you can get at his carriers.� You know, a cynic would say this was an ideal opportunity for the Allies to attack land targets (which your opponent rarely does) with their fleet carriers as a pretext whilest getting 'behind' an arc of sortie soaking shipping.� Someone who was skeptical would say that this arc of shipping was intentional contrived to shield the carriers which just so happened to be behind it for the last three turns.

I assume that he won't have any compunction about moving the Allied carriers into battle after diluting your striking power accordingly?

There is one response to this strategy .. small DD forces or sacrifice AMC's that sweep forward and engage these cargo ships during the night with the CV's bearing in close behind. It is quite possible that the CV's absorb zero operations costs while the aux attack forces finish off the screen .. Also simply picking off the pickets might be a sport in itself

Also, I thought Michael adjusted the propensity for air strikes to prefer CV's/BB's vs cargo ships ??

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Post #: 1218

RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 12:44:44 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oh gee...lookee lookee...

If you get closer to the Allies, you stand a good chance of having a number of your strikes diverted by Allied shipping before you can get at his carriers.� You know, a cynic would say this was an ideal opportunity for the Allies to attack land targets (which your opponent rarely does) with their fleet carriers as a pretext whilest getting 'behind' an arc of sortie soaking shipping.� Someone who was skeptical would say that this arc of shipping was intentional contrived to shield the carriers which just so happened to be behind it for the last three turns.

I assume that he won't have any compunction about moving the Allied carriers into battle after diluting your striking power accordingly?

There is one response to this strategy .. small DD forces or sacrifice AMC's that sweep forward and engage these cargo ships during the night with the CV's bearing in close behind. It is quite possible that the CV's absorb zero operations costs while the aux attack forces finish off the screen .. Also simply picking off the pickets might be a sport in itself Also, I thought Michael adjusted the propensity for air strikes to prefer CV's/BB's vs cargo ships ??

Oh, I understand the response you state, Crackaces. Those large clusters of perfectly positioned cargo ships could be dealt with by surface interdiction. In the meantime, some CV sorties get misdirected, scant torpedoes used up and so on. This continues for more than two combat phases and it's a decided advantage given up.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 12:59:43 AM

Chickenboy

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Request to John III: Please post the entirety of your combat reports over the next few days, if you are able. Thanks.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 1:00:09 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oh gee...lookee lookee...

If you get closer to the Allies, you stand a good chance of having a number of your strikes diverted by Allied shipping before you can get at his carriers.� You know, a cynic would say this was an ideal opportunity for the Allies to attack land targets (which your opponent rarely does) with their fleet carriers as a pretext whilest getting 'behind' an arc of sortie soaking shipping.� Someone who was skeptical would say that this arc of shipping was intentional contrived to shield the carriers which just so happened to be behind it for the last three turns.

I assume that he won't have any compunction about moving the Allied carriers into battle after diluting your striking power accordingly?

There is one response to this strategy .. small DD forces or sacrifice AMC's that sweep forward and engage these cargo ships during the night with the CV's bearing in close behind. It is quite possible that the CV's absorb zero operations costs while the aux attack forces finish off the screen .. Also simply picking off the pickets might be a sport in itself Also, I thought Michael adjusted the propensity for air strikes to prefer CV's/BB's vs cargo ships ??

Oh, I understand the response you state, Crackaces. Those large clusters of perfectly positioned cargo ships could be dealt with by surface interdiction. In the meantime, some CV sorties get misdirected, scant torpedoes used up and so on. This continues for more than two combat phases and it's a decided advantage given up.

Are you thinking/implying that the convoys seen are there as soakers rather than actually carrying supply and/or troops to Sabang (or wherever)?

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 2:34:25 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you thinking/implying that the convoys seen are there as soakers rather than actually carrying supply and/or troops to Sabang (or wherever)?

The placement, numbers and presence in a screen before the carriers made this possibility cross my mind, yes. I believe he may offer plausible deniability, but I've my opinion.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 4:26:44 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you thinking/implying that the convoys seen are there as soakers rather than actually carrying supply and/or troops to Sabang (or wherever)?

The placement, numbers and presence in a screen before the carriers made this possibility cross my mind, yes. I believe he may offer plausible deniability, but I've my opinion.

...and I totally agree with it.

I am certain this is all here to draw away my sorties. How many DOZEN ships have I sunk that are sent closer to my airbases or on the flanks to draw off my ships or planes from the real targets?!! We'll see what happens this coming turn. Was shocked when I just got home to NOT FIND a turn waiting for me. If the ships shown here scatter and flee AWAY from my CVs then we know they were on legitimate business. If single, ones--twos--threes remain then that will say everything and I shall be PISSED. (personal comment that I hope I'm wrong about this)

If he is going for Port Blair then he will run into the heart of Japanese Air Power. I'll have 200 Betty/Nell in position tomorrow for the day after.

To be honest, the last thing I want is a CV Battle right now:
1. I've got Judy and Jill in full production right now and want to begin upgrading my Daitai.
2. There are 3 CVL within a days of being completed in Tokyo.
3. Need to fill out some of my Daitai.

All this being said, if he moves close enough I will fight. Have to. Pretty much that simple.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/22/2013 4:27:48 AM >

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 1:12:46 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
If the ships shown here scatter and flee AWAY from my CVs then we know they were on legitimate business. If single, ones--twos--threes remain then that will say everything and I shall be PISSED. (personal comment that I hope I'm wrong about this)

Yes, I agree. That will be a useful test. Will they scatter? Will they scatter AWAY from your carriers or stay (scattered) in place? Someone that uses this may also argue for the benefits of scattering them in place and therefore-towards-your CVs.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 1:17:21 PM

Miller

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I hope you have your CV a/c flying all at the same alt? Never piss about with altitude settings, I go with 10k feet for everything and it has served me well in the past. You want maximum Co-ordination to get as many planes through his CAP as possible.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 2:47:57 PM

John 3rd

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Ditto to what Chickenman said.

After the discussion we had about this some months ago I have set all my Vals and Kates to 10,000Ft.

No turn for quite a while today. Shocked there wasn't one waiting when I got home from work yesterday. Work this morning and am then taking 50% of my staff over to Fort Collins for afternoon training. Will get to the turn after that.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 2:49:42 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I hope you have your CV a/c flying all at the same alt? Never piss about with altitude settings, I go with 10k feet for everything and it has served me well in the past. You want maximum Co-ordination to get as many planes through his CAP as possible.

Certainly 10,000 is within the bounds of TB/DB's climbing up for the DB attacks ... but what recent behavior leads you to such a strong statement of not stratifying CAP? Especially some CAP at 20,000 feet? Is this a particular odd behavior you have seen with an opponent or a series of observations? Certainly I have observed high level CAP miss low level targets; however, one tactic is to set some escorts at a high altitude and the CAP jockeys climbing up to meet the fighter escorts do not do as well --if not also miss the strike. The game is no simulation and thus I am interested if in fact just setting fighter CAP to 10K is really the ticket.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 3:06:55 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oh gee...lookee lookee...

If you get closer to the Allies, you stand a good chance of having a number of your strikes diverted by Allied shipping before you can get at his carriers.� You know, a cynic would say this was an ideal opportunity for the Allies to attack land targets (which your opponent rarely does) with their fleet carriers as a pretext whilest getting 'behind' an arc of sortie soaking shipping.� Someone who was skeptical would say that this arc of shipping was intentional contrived to shield the carriers which just so happened to be behind it for the last three turns.

I assume that he won't have any compunction about moving the Allied carriers into battle after diluting your striking power accordingly?

There is one response to this strategy .. small DD forces or sacrifice AMC's that sweep forward and engage these cargo ships during the night with the CV's bearing in close behind. It is quite possible that the CV's absorb zero operations costs while the aux attack forces finish off the screen .. Also simply picking off the pickets might be a sport in itself Also, I thought Michael adjusted the propensity for air strikes to prefer CV's/BB's vs cargo ships ??

Oh, I understand the response you state, Crackaces. Those large clusters of perfectly positioned cargo ships could be dealt with by surface interdiction. In the meantime, some CV sorties get misdirected, scant torpedoes used up and so on. This continues for more than two combat phases and it's a decided advantage given up.

I think the real problem comes when we start thinking this game is a simulation of WWII rather than a complex chess game. For example, there is no historical reason for the IJ to have a one hex advantage in CV naval strike range. In fact, the allies struck at 8 hexes in the Battle of the Marians. But the developers decided to make the game more interesting by providing an advantage to the IJ. Just to add to the pile ... In real life US dive bombers at Midway followed DD screening forces to find the carriers. In the game, most likely a strike package of some strength would dump hell on earth of the DD's rather than locate and focus all firepower on the CV's. All this detail is abstracted in a die roll I guess ... and strike packages spent on "screening forces" is also a die roll in this game ... This argument goes on religiously in this forum depending upon where on the spectrum a particular person falls -- from this is the greatest WWII WitP simulation .. home rules can make this the greatest WWII WitP simulation .. all the way to my religious believe that no amount of home rules is going to make this anywhere close to a simulation. The really religious types that have attacked me personally I have blocked

I guess it is also important to find an opponent that is somewhat close to ones belief system on this spectrum.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 3:26:46 PM

John 3rd

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I don't agree with some of your thoughts Crackaces:

1. The Japanese did have a range advantage and used it several times. It was the entire objective at the Marianas.
2. I rarely have seen any strike package (Allied or Japanese) NOT go for the closest target.
3. The additional problem here is the whole sortie and TT load topic. Had a full Daitai of Kates spotted a lone AK acting as a decoy while their MISSION was to attack the enemy's CVs, would they expend EVERY TT on that lonesome, useless target? NO!

This is why the possible tactic is so effective for an Allied OR Japanese player to use.

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RE: The Battle Arena - 8/22/2013 3:46:31 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I don't agree with some of your thoughts Crackaces:

1. The Japanese did have a range advantage and used it several times. It was the entire objective at the Marianas.
2. I rarely have seen any strike package (Allied or Japanese) NOT go for the closest target.
3. The additional problem here is the whole sortie and TT load topic. Had a full Daitai of Kates spotted a lone AK acting as a decoy while their MISSION was to attack the enemy's CVs, would they expend EVERY TT on that lonesome, useless target? NO!

This is why the possible tactic is so effective for an Allied OR Japanese player to use.

The 1-ship TF issue has come up in our game. My side of it is in my AAR; I don't know if Mike discussed it in his. CR also weighed in briefly on the topic after I termed using picket ships "crap." I think he took umbrage.

There are various arguments for and against using merchants as pickets. I find the historic argument about merchant crews being civilians true but unpersuasive in a no-HR game such as mine. But I still don't use them. I do use 1-ship TFs, which is a different issue than picket ships meant to draw off sorties. While it is true that the phase structure of the game prevents interim command involvement to change orders in mid-turn as search intel is received, it is also true that the other side of the issue is hamstrung by the attacking player not being able to order no attacks on picket ship merchants. The attacker can't order his pilots to attack nothing but carriers for example.

FWIW this is part of the e-mail I sent to Mike giving my own "rules" for when I use 1-ship TFs.

"My view is I use 1-ship TFs when it's tactically needed. This is a list, maybe not exhaustive, but most of the times I would do this.

1. When the supply need at the other end doesn't justify more ships. I accept the risk of sub attack, which in the code is significantly higher with a one merchant TF than a one merchant and any escort. In some cases I might do this in a forward area, especially early war, to save fuel. Same comments about risks.

2. When I have a larger TF and I need to unload at the fastest possible rate in a smaller port. I will break away one ship, put it at the pier to unload, and leave the rest out in the harbor unloading as best they can away from the pier. In some cases the pier space might be big enough for two or three 1-ship TFs to unload. I do that so the smallest can finish and be ready to undock at the start of the next turn, rather than leave two, or three, ships with a little left on-board each. Also, I may put a 1-ship TF at the pier because it's damaged or burning and I want to get the max off before it sinks.

3) When fleeing the first week areas such as the PI. It was every man for himself and no escorts available.

4) Any combatant can go in 1-ship TFs with no restrictions.

5) When transiting new ships, empty, to a new homeport.

In this game I have done all five of these things. I have not used 1-ship TFs as ammo sponges or the well-known "picket ship." In one case I used 1-ship TFs (three I think) as a screen for incoming combat ships, BUT each was going to a port where they would pick up something valuable (a 2-day load period) and go back to someplace which needed the valuable thing. Their route helped complicate the targeting picture, yes, but that wasn't why I did it. As it turned out it didn't matter."

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