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Media and the war in the Pacific - 1/13/2003 9:03:55 PM   
Piiska

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Does anyone happen to know how the war efforts in the Pacific theatre were reported in Allied and Japanese media? Especially the Guadalcanal campaign is interesting. How did the two sides report their victories, and more importantly, how did they report their losses?

I know that Japanese reporting was not very reliable - to say at least.

For example, Tokyo radio reported no less than 13 U.S CV sunk during the first days of the ‘I-Go’ operation at Leyte Gulf, which of course was not quite true. The accidental sinking of Mutsu was also concealed and air to air claims that Tokyo radio frequently reported were of course completely fictional.

This is just to give an example of few propaganda tricks. Does anyone know how Midway was reported in Japan? Did they hide the result, or did they call it a great victory?

How about the other side? How did the media in Australia, England and U.S report the war? I’m sure they celebrated destruction of Japanese CV’s at Midway, but what about their own losses?

When Lexington went down, did the media report the loss? If it did, how much later from the sinking did it happen? How about disaster at Savo Island? Was it reported? I’m pretty sure that there was a delay in between reporting a CV sunk, after all the Japanese had people in U.S reading the papers as well.

Hopefully I’m not too much off the topic, but I’m really interested in the role media had in the war and this place seems like an ideal place to ask Pacific war related questions.
Post #: 1
- 1/13/2003 9:19:12 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		As best I recall, in August 1942, Japan announced Midway as a victory, losing one carrier (reported as [I]Hiryu[/I]), and suffering damage to another (reported as [I]Kaga[/I]), while sinking two US [I]Yorktown[/I] class carriers.

Once Japan announced the battle, the US let out a few details, such as sinking four Japanese carriers (but not naming them), but didn't announce the loss of USS [I]Yorktown[/I] until months later.

As we all know carrier losses were four IJN ([I]Akagi, Kaga, Soryu,[/I] and [I]Hiryu[/I]), and one USN ([I]Yorktown[/I]) lost

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Post #: 2
- 1/13/2003 9:30:37 PM   
Piiska

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Would somebody happen to where I could find original articles online? I tried, but to no avail.

It would be very interesting to read articles from that era, just like its interesting to read the after action report of Coral Sea on the other thread.

Has anyone happened to do any research on the subject?

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Post #: 3
Side note regarding subject... - 1/13/2003 9:57:06 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

As a side note I remember what Saburo Sakai wrote in his
book "Samurai".

He was NCO and only after he become officer (one of the
very few that did that) he learned the true war situation.

He wrote that he was aghast because the media said Midway
was victory (and that he always had trouble going home during
war because people there, including his family, believed
till the end that things are going OK for Japan)...


Leo "Apollo1"

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Post #: 4
- 1/13/2003 10:15:00 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I remember seeing an article that, when Time/Life magazine did an article on the battles at Guadalcanal, there were a few photographs of dead marines on the beach. They next month, enlistments for the Army rose, and enlistments for the Marines dropped dramatically. The next month, more care was taken by censors.

-F-

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Post #: 5
- 1/13/2003 10:20:02 PM   
Piiska

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		What about the Allied?

How was the battle of Savo covered, or was it covered at all?
How about loss of Wake island?

And what about loss of Hornet or Lexington. Was there similar delay in reporting as was with Yorktown?

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Post #: 6
- 1/13/2003 10:35:55 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I don't know specifically about Savo Island. But I know that the US proproganda managers succeeded in making Wake Island a massive propoganda coup. It played right into American sympathies of the little guy. While Americans were reading about being pushed back in the Phillipines, the loss of Guam, and the British and Dutch trouples in Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia...

Here was Wake island, defended by a battalion of Marines, part of fighter squadron, and a handful of civilian workers for PanAm, who managed to repulse an attack by "massive" IJN fleet of several cruisers, detroyers and transports supported by land-based bombers and the carriers of the Pearl Harbor strike.

The first aphibious invasion of Japan was REPULSED with heavy casualties (loss of 2 destroyers, 2 transports, and crippling another destroyer and light cruiser) by the US defenders. It turned out to be the only amphibious invasion of the war that was actually repulsed.

When IJN came back in force around Christmas, they squashed Wake, but it catapulted America's first heros to martyrdom and slogan "Remember Wake Island" was almost as popular "Rember Peal Harbor" during the first years of the war. The movie "Wake Island" was actually the first movie made during the war (it's production was rushed, and I believe it was released around May or June of 1942). If you watch it, it's absolutely horrible. But it was definately a successful propganda tool.

-F-

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Post #: 7
- 1/13/2003 10:45:25 PM   
Piiska

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Very interesting. I suppose you wouldn't know how I could get my hands on such material? The film would be interesting indeed to see, as well as the newspaper articles.

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Post #: 8
- 1/13/2003 11:03:03 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		[URL=http://us.imdb.com/Title?0035530]Link to "Wake Island" movie at Imdb.Com[/URL]

I -seriously- doubt you'd be able to rent it. Every one and while (probably around Memorial Day), Ted Turner might get the urge to watch it, and have one of his program directors put it on TBS. Maybe on the History Channel late at night when they hope no-one is watching. Like I said. It's a fairly horrible movie, but if you consider the climate of the summer of 1942 (pre-Midway) you can see why movies like this were useful.

And for futher research...
I remember when I was a kid, being tasked with those stupid science proects and it's annoying compatriot, the dreaded research paper that went along with it. Knowing that my parents were going to drop me off at the library to "waste" a perfectly good Saturday (everything was of course due on Monday). One day I thot to look up the newspapers for the day AFTER some of the major battles. I was already stuck in the microfishe section looking up articles on igneos rocks or plant fibers, so I checked out the "The New York Times" for December 8th, 1941... and June 7th, 1944... If you know a couple of dates, you can look up some really cool stuff (as it was reported back then). Maybe even local papers (which can be very depressing, because there's often pages of casualties list about 2 weeks after the big battles). I don't even know if they still keep stuff on on microfische (maybe, dunno, it's a been a while since I've been to the main library), but that sort of thing has got to still be available somewhere (the internet?).

-F-

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Post #: 9
- 1/14/2003 12:05:36 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		I was going to suggest microfiche as well. I'm pretty sure most libraries would still have that available. Sometimes a battle wouldnt be reported the next day and you'd have to check the front pages for the week or so following before news would reach the US of the battle.

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Post #: 10
- 1/14/2003 12:19:12 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		When IJN came back in force around Christmas, they squashed Wake,

I wouldn't say they Squashed them, the US Naval Commander, didn't think things were going too good, so ordered the surrender, against the advice of the Marine ground commander, after the surrender, the Marine commander had to go around and tell his boys to stop killing the Japs, as they had given up

now to be honest, don't think they could of held out much longer, but the Japs would of had to bring in more troops to do so if they had, or pulled back and let the supplies run out

that battle was a large slap in the face for the Jap high command


for Midway, some of the reports released back home were about how they had decoyed the Allies there to get the landings in the Alutions (spelling) to succeed, wounded Naval personal, that were sent back home to the home islands, were not allowed out of the Hosp or allowed to be seen by anybody not in the service

for Leyte Gulf, what was even worse, the commanders on the islands, were reporting back to the Fleet, how great the battle was going, how many ships had been sunk, and the large amount of planes that had landed and would be turned around to make the 2nd strike (the shame of that battle is the fact that it was a well thought out action, very good thinking in it, only the people in charge didn't let the true info out to those that needed it, the CV fleet was charging in the 2nd day to finish off the remains of the US Fleet, only to find out that there were not plane (not many) to complete the battle)

HARD_Sarge

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Post #: 11
- 1/14/2003 12:36:28 AM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Feinder
[B]
The first aphibious invasion of Japan was REPULSED with heavy casualties (loss of 2 destroyers, 2 transports, and crippling another destroyer and light cruiser) by the US defenders. It turned out to be the only amphibious invasion of the war that was actually repulsed.

[/B][/QUOTE]

sorry to correct you but this is not true
and some days later, the invasion was a succes ( no wonder the japs had 2 CV's from the pearl harbor TF in company then)

Mile Bay turned out to be a landing by the japanese to be repulsed and the japs didn't tried it again.

source : US Naval history in WW2 by Samuel E. Morison.

_____________________________


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Post #: 12
- 1/14/2003 1:27:29 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Oliver, it is commonly held that their were TWO invasions of Wake Island, one on about Dec 10th, another around Dec 19th (I'm fuzzy on my dates, I'm at the office). The first was repulsed, the second was not. When I say "squashed" it is not to say that the Wake Defenders were not able to exact a toll on their attackers during the second invasion. However, the Japanese had returned with more than ample planes/troops/naval assets to do the job.

After it's fall, Wake Island actually became a "study" for US planners, as they knew that they would eventually be invading islands (and Europe for that matter) themselves. They concluded that ...

1. If an invasion is to be thwarted, it must happen within the first 24 hours, and stopped "on the beach" or before it ever takes place.

2. Air superiority is necessary to protect transports and bombardment vessals from enemy planes and shore batteries, and to interdict the enemy's ability to reinforce or resupply.

3. Ironically, no well planned invasion will likely fail, because the attacker knows that he must not attack without air/naval/troop/logistical superiority.

4. The real issue of an invasion then becomes loss minimization and being able to hold on thru inevitable counterattacks.

-F-

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Post #: 13
- 1/14/2003 2:55:59 AM   
TIMJOT

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oliver Heindorf
[B]sorry to correct you but this is not true
and some days later, the invasion was a succes ( no wonder the japs had 2 CV's from the pearl harbor TF in company then)

Mile Bay turned out to be a landing by the japanese to be repulsed and the japs didn't tried it again.

source : US Naval history in WW2 by Samuel E. Morison. [/B][/QUOTE]


Not to nit pick, but the IJN Milne Bay landings were not repulsed. I believe they actually landed unopposed. They were however counter attacked and destroyed some weeks later. I believe Fiender was refering to preventing a landing from getting ashore.

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Post #: 14
- 1/14/2003 3:57:48 AM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		Hi guys

my post wasnt ment to be any kind of offense :) sometimes the language barrier comes up ;)

of course Feinder is right if you say it was a direct repell at wake.

here is what i have in my book about milne bay :

allies made the AF at gili gili ready and started operations from there

the japs had two transports at milne bay and one was badly damaged by a B-17 and left the bay nearly unloaded. The japs managed to get ashore but a a few days later they mostly were wiped out. their attack failed and the allied commander took the initiative and counterattacked the japs.
you can read the full story in vol 6 of the book series i mentioned above :) I can only recommend these great books. :)

So in all the landing at milne bay was repulsed, at land mostly, but it was a total failure for the japanese.

_____________________________


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Post #: 15
- 1/14/2003 4:41:03 AM   
SoulBlazer

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline 		The Japanese did indeed suffer a black eye when they went after Wake the first time. The coastal guns managed to sink one Japanese destroyer that had come in close for fire support and a second destroyer was damaged (by planes on the island, I believe). The Japanese were not really prepared for a landing on a small island in the face of hostile resistance, which became clear after what happened at Wake. It took the help of carriers coming back from Pearl Harbor and additional forces to take Wake. The US was going to put together a relief force, but it was recalled for fear of what might happen to it. The Japanese did'nt have anything like the US Marines (the Japanese SNLF's were really just sailors) and the Marines were a huge adventuge as the island hopping started in 43.

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Post #: 16
- 1/14/2003 4:43:04 AM   
Zeta16


Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline 		A good book on Japan's policies leading up to the war and during read JAPAN"S WAR. It talks about how the government used lies and misinformation to keep the war fever going. It also explains how Japan reported battles to it's people.

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Post #: 17
- 1/14/2003 5:22:57 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Piiska
[B]Would somebody happen to where I could find original articles online? I tried, but to no avail.

It would be very interesting to read articles from that era, just like its interesting to read the after action report of Coral Sea on the other thread.

Has anyone happened to do any research on the subject? [/B][/QUOTE]

You can always try the library, some of the larger one have old copies of major publications in their reference sections, thing like Life Magazine from the 40's.
One other place for interesting information is Nation Geographics, I have not seen the CD version but I have seen the paper copies of the the 1940 till 1945 issues. The latter years in color.

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Post #: 18
- 1/14/2003 5:43:35 AM   
Possum

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/27/2000
From: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Status: offline 		Hello all

1st) Try and find a copy of "Green Armour" by Oscar White
Mr White was a Journalist for the Brisbane Morning Herald during WW2, and he traveled extensively around New Guinia, and the Solomons durning 1942-43. The Book is a Autobiograpy of his experiences during this time. It is very interesting reading.

2nd) The initial Japanese landings at Rabaul in Jan-42 where also repulsed by the scratch Australian Battailon in garrison there.
The Japanese took Rabaul only after they landed 10 miles further down the Coast and marched overland to take the Australian defenders in the Rear.

IIRC 2nd Wake was the only time the Japanese suceeded in a Direct Attack at taking an Objective by amphibious assault. On all other occasions they Suceeded by Outflanking the Defenders.

_____________________________

"We're having a war, and we want you to come!"
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.

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Post #: 19
- 1/14/2003 6:09:46 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		The best two sources of such information are the archives of the New York Times and CBS radio. Both are available on the Web through links on those two companies' Web sites.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 20
- 1/14/2003 9:00:39 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		I was under the impression from reading Sakai that the SNLF were regular infantry who had been trained in amphibious landings.

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Post #: 21
- 1/14/2003 9:04:01 AM   
SoulBlazer

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline 		That's what they were susposed to be. In reality, they were often no better then sailors armed with weapons and told to land. They were under navy control, and the IJN tried to use them like Marines but they fell woefully short.

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Post #: 22
- 1/14/2003 9:53:26 PM   
Piiska

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by pasternakski
[B]The best two sources of such information are the archives of the New York Times and CBS radio. Both are available on the Web through links on those two companies' Web sites. [/B][/QUOTE]

I got lost with these two pages. They are not very clear (Actually they are horrible. CBS and CBS Radio didn't even have a search feature).

The only reference to historical archives I found was on NY times. They have a "On this day" section, but searching articles about specific issues is very cumbersome without a search feature; their search is limited only to their modern stories dating back to 1996. No help there. Not even with help of google search.

Would you have a link to these archives you meant Pasternakski? I think others might find them interesting as well.

Thanks for others posting here as well. However, I'm living in Finland so its a bit problematic for me to go searching microfilms that are located in U.S - unless of course they are online.

Does anyone in U.S know a library that has moved their microfilms online for public viewing?

For Australians. I will be back in Sydney in about a month and I have access to UTS library and their librarians, so I'm sure I can find at least Pacific War coverage in Australia with a relative ease. Bombing of Darwin should make interesting reading.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zeta16
[B]A good book on Japan's policies leading up to the war and during read JAPAN"S WAR. It talks about how the government used lies and misinformation to keep the war fever going. It also explains how Japan reported battles to it's people [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you happen to know if the book has original Japanese newspaper articles translated to English with original pictures?Transcripts from radio would be great also.

Hmm... I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion that If I'm to find any original Japanese articles, I have to learn to read Japanese :eek:

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Post #: 23
- 1/15/2003 7:44:01 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Piiska
[B]
For Australians. I will be back in Sydney in about a month and I have access to UTS library and their librarians, so I'm sure I can find at least Pacific War coverage in Australia with a relative ease. Bombing of Darwin should make interesting reading.



[/B][/QUOTE]


While you are in Oz head down to Canberra and have a look at the Australian War Memorial. They have a great research area that is open to the public, and have staff on hand to help you. There are also THOUSANDS of the old "MovieTone" newsreels on video which you can look at in the video booths, also located in the research section.

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 24
- 1/15/2003 8:08:12 AM   
Piiska

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Mate. I'm going to travel for about a month at the East Coast, starting from Cairns and going to Sydney.

I wonder should I cancel my rainforest, Barrier Reef and surfing adventure and go to Canberra instead? :D

No seriously. Thanks for the info. I live in Sydney, so Canberra is not that far away. However, it is just a bit too far away only to have a quick look at archives.

I wonder what the Sydney main library has? They should have some old newspapers and newsreels as well. Besides, UTS library has great librarians, they can find me almost anything :D

I recently found an article that discussed one intelligence leak by the Media in U.S.

Shortly after the Battle of Midway one major American newspaper reported that the victory was greatly due to cracking of Japanese codes. Apparently, Japanese were not reading the right papers so they didn't find out, but U.S military and intelligence officials were not very happy about the article.

Can't blame them for that.

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Post #: 25
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