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RE: Playtesting RA 6.0

 
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RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 4:43:07 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

Force Z now has 1 BB and 2xBC to be slaughtered on a historical start?

KB-2 TF 18 is an air TF but only has 3 DDs in it.


This is the augmented Force that FatR and I decided upon for the Perfect War Mod. I have real mixed feelings on it. On one hand you have a 3rd Capital Ship but on the other you have a THIRD CAPITAL ship that could be smashed ASAP.

Other Ideas bandied around were the following:
1. Have Renown start with Hermes in Ceylon.
2. Have Renown enter with the first British Flattop in March 1942.

What do people think? Am totally open to ideas and opinions here...



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Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 31
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 4:45:09 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I have several ships using the same ship art. Ie Le Hardi and a few more I'll have to look and see which ones. I need to start writing stuff down when I see it. This could just be me where I have messed around with my art files.

Is it just me or does it seem out of place that you have a good size French fleet at Noumea with only a small inf detachment at the base. Wouldn't it seem right to have atleast a base force of some type present?

The Oz CD units. Was the 6" MKV in a fixed position or was it somewhat mobile?

So far looks pretty good.


Had the same thought regarding the French and did a couple of things earlier today:

a. Increased Noumea's Port to 3 and raised the Forts to 2.
b. Added a French Base Force that begins at 50% strength.

Makes a bit better sense this way. Thought about a French HQ unit of some sort and then decided that might complicate things too much.


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Post #: 32
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 4:46:50 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

TF 407 starting at Darwin ends up being an Air TF. It has some AP and xAPs in it with troops loaded. Not sure what will happen with it.


I was lazy and didn't create a separate TF and need to. We'll have the APs and AKs in TF 407 and CLV Charlotte, CA Pensacola, and 4 US DD in their own Air TF. Makes stronger sense this way.


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(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 33
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 6:55:12 AM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

Force Z now has 1 BB and 2xBC to be slaughtered on a historical start?

KB-2 TF 18 is an air TF but only has 3 DDs in it.


This is the augmented Force that FatR and I decided upon for the Perfect War Mod. I have real mixed feelings on it. On one hand you have a 3rd Capital Ship but on the other you have a THIRD CAPITAL ship that could be smashed ASAP.

Other Ideas bandied around were the following:
1. Have Renown start with Hermes in Ceylon.
2. Have Renown enter with the first British Flattop in March 1942.

What do people think? Am totally open to ideas and opinions here...




I like option 1 but 2 is fine also. In my last three games as Allies, my opponent has chosen a historical start and I tend to lose PoW and Repulse, this would give them the potential of sinking Renown also on turn 1.

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Post #: 34
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 10:56:31 AM   
ny59giants


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quote:

2. Have Renown enter with the first British Flattop in March 1942.


My vote!! (And I carry a picture ID that is government issue)

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Post #: 35
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 1:01:54 PM   
ny59giants


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Dutch Subs:

I see there are NO upgrades for any.

O16 Class - ID 237 (Ship #4904)
O21 Class - ID 239 (Ship #4907)
KXI Class - ID 233 (Ship #4896)
KXIV Class - ID 234 (Ship #4899)
KVII Class - ID 240 (Ship #4965)
O19 Class - ID 238 (Ship #4905) This and O20 are great minelaying subs.

Need to get AA and radar sometime in '43, I would guess.
What American mines could they then use after upgrade??

Somebody may need to go through the Dutch and see what else like the CLs & DDs that survive can get an upgrade in '43 with American AA and radar.



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Post #: 36
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 3:39:43 PM   
John 3rd


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Am headed to work and will look at all this later today. Agree about the upgrades listed above.

Keep Posting what you see or have questions about. Need more votes on the fate of Renown with or without Force Z?


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Post #: 37
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 3:50:16 PM   
Lecivius


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PLanning on running another AI game with this as allies to do a Stare & Compare. Let me know when you have an updated copy

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Post #: 38
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 7:31:33 PM   
Adolf Galland


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I think the old cruiser Iwate etc... need more AA in later upgrades this ships have ca. 10000 tonnage the are a huge and a solid platform for many heavy AA guns. She can carry more Guns than 4 x 12,7cm AA.

www.ww2incolor.com/german-navy/

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/nymphe/history.html


http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/undine/index.html
anti aircraft battery Undine. Her armament consisted now of 8-10.5cm guns, 5-4cm guns and 16-20mm MK guns

this floating flak batterys have a tonnage from 3000t - 5000t

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 39
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 11:10:39 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adolf Galland

I think the old cruiser Iwate etc... need more AA in later upgrades this ships have ca. 10000 tonnage the are a huge and a solid platform for many heavy AA guns. She can carry more Guns than 4 x 12,7cm AA.

www.ww2incolor.com/german-navy/

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/nymphe/history.html


http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/undine/index.html
anti aircraft battery Undine. Her armament consisted now of 8-10.5cm guns, 5-4cm guns and 16-20mm MK guns

this floating flak batterys have a tonnage from 3000t - 5000t


I don't find this ship in my RA Database. What is the Class Number?

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Post #: 40
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 11:12:11 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

2. Have Renown enter with the first British Flattop in March 1942.


My vote!! (And I carry a picture ID that is government issue)


Due to just two votes, I guess I will move Renown to join the Formidable's TF arriving in March 42.


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Post #: 41
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/20/2013 11:59:04 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Dutch Subs:

I see there are NO upgrades for any.

O16 Class - ID 237 (Ship #4904)
O21 Class - ID 239 (Ship #4907)
KXI Class - ID 233 (Ship #4896)
KXIV Class - ID 234 (Ship #4899)
KVII Class - ID 240 (Ship #4965)
O19 Class - ID 238 (Ship #4905) This and O20 are great minelaying subs.

Need to get AA and radar sometime in '43, I would guess.
What American mines could they then use after upgrade??

Somebody may need to go through the Dutch and see what else like the CLs & DDs that survive can get an upgrade in '43 with American AA and radar.




OK. Gave all these classes an upgrade providing 20MM instead of .50 Cal and added radar. Did a random set of upgrade dates ranging (by the roll of the dice) from June 43 to Dec 43.


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Post #: 42
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 12:13:42 AM   
John 3rd


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Covering the Darwin Reinforcement TF is now an Air Combat TF comprising CLV Charlotte, CA Pensacola, and 3 DD. Dividing the large TF into an Air Combat and Transport TF makes a lot of sense to me.


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Post #: 43
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 9:32:53 AM   
Adolf Galland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Adolf Galland

I think the old cruiser Iwate etc... need more AA in later upgrades this ships have ca. 10000 tonnage the are a huge and a solid platform for many heavy AA guns. She can carry more Guns than 4 x 12,7cm AA.

www.ww2incolor.com/german-navy/

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/nymphe/history.html


http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/undine/index.html
anti aircraft battery Undine. Her armament consisted now of 8-10.5cm guns, 5-4cm guns and 16-20mm MK guns

this floating flak batterys have a tonnage from 3000t - 5000t


I don't find this ship in my RA Database. What is the Class Number?



Iwate class and Asama class the 4 old ca cruiser pre war 1... the idea is a powerfull AA Plattform or a hyprid Minelayer with heavy AA guns.... (Tokiwa is a good exampel) the old cruiser Hulk is a huge plattform vor many heavy AA guns ! the 15 cm must be remove...

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 44
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 10:21:07 AM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adolf Galland

I think the old cruiser Iwate etc... need more AA in later upgrades this ships have ca. 10000 tonnage the are a huge and a solid platform for many heavy AA guns. She can carry more Guns than 4 x 12,7cm AA.

www.ww2incolor.com/german-navy/

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/nymphe/history.html


http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/undine/index.html
anti aircraft battery Undine. Her armament consisted now of 8-10.5cm guns, 5-4cm guns and 16-20mm MK guns

this floating flak batterys have a tonnage from 3000t - 5000t



Iwate lost 2x2 203/45 guns and 4x1 152/40 guns in 1945 and received instead 2x2 127/40 Type 89, 1x3 25/60 Type 96 AAMC, 2x2 25/60 Type 96 AAMC, 2x1 25/60 Type 96 AAMC and 2x1 13.2/76 AAMG in 1945.

(in reply to Adolf Galland)
Post #: 45
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 11:48:51 AM   
Adolf Galland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Adolf Galland

I think the old cruiser Iwate etc... need more AA in later upgrades this ships have ca. 10000 tonnage the are a huge and a solid platform for many heavy AA guns. She can carry more Guns than 4 x 12,7cm AA.

www.ww2incolor.com/german-navy/

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/nymphe/history.html


http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/aabattery/undine/index.html
anti aircraft battery Undine. Her armament consisted now of 8-10.5cm guns, 5-4cm guns and 16-20mm MK guns

this floating flak batterys have a tonnage from 3000t - 5000t



Iwate lost 2x2 203/45 guns and 4x1 152/40 guns in 1945 and received instead 2x2 127/40 Type 89, 1x3 25/60 Type 96 AAMC, 2x2 25/60 Type 96 AAMC, 2x1 25/60 Type 96 AAMC and 2x1 13.2/76 AAMG in 1945.


That is nothing for a 10000 tonnage ship... we have space for more guns, that is the point.

Gruß nach Hamburg schau dir mal die Deutschen flakschiffe an wie zb. Niobe,Medusa,Udine was die an Antiaircraft guns tragen !!! und das mit 3000 tonnen !!! also da ist noch viel platz frei auf den alten Kreuzern.

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 46
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 12:48:57 PM   
oldman45


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Good idea, but because of the game mechanics, perhaps change them into PG like the British monitors.

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Post #: 47
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 12:51:59 PM   
Terminus


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Germany had INFINITELY greater industrial capacity than Japan. The Japs had constant shortages of gun tubes, and had to juggle the needs of first-line combat ships and the rest of the fleet. You think they're going to over-gun an ancient armoured cruiser like that when they have modern ships sailing into harms way?

No.

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Post #: 48
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 2:07:23 PM   
Symon


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I see one of the usual all-things-great-and-nazifull hijackers has showed up. Maybe best to just ignore it. It will eventually go away. This should be for playtesting issues and comments.

Speaking of which, I'm looking for comments on the new map data: supply flow, movement, and the like.

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Post #: 49
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 2:09:12 PM   
Adolf Galland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Germany had INFINITELY greater industrial capacity than Japan. The Japs had constant shortages of gun tubes, and had to juggle the needs of first-line combat ships and the rest of the fleet. You think they're going to over-gun an ancient armoured cruiser like that when they have modern ships sailing into harms way?

No.


Nice we take the old 12,7 cm AA guns from the other ships in the pool... The IJN Mainfleet made the refit to 100/65mm,so we have enough old guns for the 4 old cruiser...

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 50
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 9:44:07 PM   
Terminus


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Also, think about this: why would the Japs want to make a floating flak battery before 1944-45? Their enemies were far, far, far away from them, and highly unlikely to be able to attack them from the air.

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Post #: 51
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 10:17:46 PM   
Adolf Galland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Also, think about this: why would the Japs want to make a floating flak battery before 1944-45? Their enemies were far, far, far away from them, and highly unlikely to be able to attack them from the air.


the upgrade is a late war refit !

floating flak battery is a cheap refit. I think this the best what we can do for the old Boys...for Navy action to slow... (heavy AA escort for slow Konvois)

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Post #: 52
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/21/2013 10:43:21 PM   
Symon


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Okay. Got it. Some 6th grader nazi boy hijacks in, and everyone would rather respond to him than the thread purpose. Okey dokey. That's one reason that Babes people don't post here. And that's one reason I will not do so in the future. So long as a$$holes like that are allowed, I am out. Good Bye and good luck.

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Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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Post #: 53
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/22/2013 3:30:23 AM   
Skyros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Okay. Got it. Some 6th grader nazi boy hijacks in, and everyone would rather respond to him than the thread purpose. Okey dokey. That's one reason that Babes people don't post here. And that's one reason I will not do so in the future. So long as a$$holes like that are allowed, I am out. Good Bye and good luck.

Damn, I hate it when this happens.

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 54
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/22/2013 4:29:33 AM   
John 3rd


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Could we just work on the Mod issues and corrections? THANKS!

Appreciate the sentiment expressed above guys...


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Post #: 55
New Scenario Description - 8/22/2013 7:04:49 AM   
John 3rd


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Have a rough draft for a new Scenario Description. Please read and comment of good, bad, add this, take away that, etc...


The Reluctant Admiral is a Japanese 'what if' scenario based upon a greater contribution by Adm. Yamamoto Isoroku to the development of the Kaigun in 1939-1941. The premise of the Mod is that Yamamoto exerted a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for a war he didn't want.

He adds two new slipways for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war.

In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building plan replacing the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class Battleships with three improved Shokaku-Class CVs and a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, two Tone-Class CAs, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions shall make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.

The Japan Naval Air Arm is changed so that everything is staked to the Zero Airframe with a specialization of the Zero into a Land-Based Interceptor as well as CV-Based Fighters. Research and production expansion is achieved by streamlining the air industry (cutting several models) while bringing forward second generation aircraft: Judy, Jill, etc… By great effort the IJNAF deploys nearly all new aircraft on December 7th.

On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs.

The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!

Once war begins RA postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better 2nd-class destroyers, CL conversions into CVLs, fast transports and coastal defense fleet.

It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. RA 6.0 brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, several ground units, a French Squadron at Noumea, the use of CLV Charlotte (a Flightdeck Cruiser), a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV, Tangier Class AV, and Cimarron Class AOs into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?

Designer's notes:
1. RA is fully compatible with Da Babe’s Modifications and may be used on the Extended Map with any other Babes feature.
2. This Mod uses the reduced cargo capacity of DBB.
3. Garrison requirements have been raised throughout the CBI Theatre to slow the creation and movement of immense stacks of troops that is considered a-historical.
4. Production is 'on' for this scenario
5. A special pwhexe.dat file is strongly recommended to help slow land movement throughout the map.

Scenario Designers: Stanislav Bartoshevitch (FatR), Michael Benoit (NY59Giants), John R. Cochran, III (John 3rd), Juan Gomez (JuanG), Ben Kloosterman (BK), John (JWE), EJ (SuluSea) and John Young (Red Lancer)


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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 56
RE: New Scenario Description - 8/22/2013 2:32:50 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

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The 2 extra USN Independence CVLs are not showing up in the reinforcement que.
The two slots that were used in 5.5 now have CLs in them that have been moved from
other slots that now have other ships in them. Someone will have to figure out
how to resolve this.

< Message edited by Cpt Sherwood -- 8/22/2013 2:39:07 PM >


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Post #: 57
RE: New Scenario Description - 8/22/2013 2:49:06 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

The 2 extra USN Independence CVLs are not showing up in the reinforcement que.
The two slots that were used in 5.5 now have CLs in them that have been moved from
other slots that now have other ships in them. Someone will have to figure out
how to resolve this.


MAN: I haven't even looked there. Just ASSUMED they would be there. Crap. Not a big deal and will fix later on today.


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(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 58
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/23/2013 10:03:00 AM   
Cavalry Corp

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Okay. Got it. Some 6th grader nazi boy hijacks in, and everyone would rather respond to him than the thread purpose. Okey dokey. That's one reason that Babes people don't post here. And that's one reason I will not do so in the future. So long as a$$holes like that are allowed, I am out. Good Bye and good luck.



the only bad comments on this thread are yours - its no problem for the thread to wander and explore new ideas. Please be constructive in your posts.

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 59
RE: Playtesting RA 6.0 - 8/23/2013 10:07:15 AM   
Cavalry Corp

 

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From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline
Like the idea on slowing the land movement in difficult terrain - interesting to see how it works. I have always advokated that in China the terrain is too user friendly. Its not I can assure you, I have travelled a lot in China and even now rural areas and pretty poor on infastructure. Burma the same the plains are very flat but the jungle immense, a great place to visit.

Looking forward to this mod and feel happy to try either side.

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 60
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