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The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:28:11 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I started a new 41 campaign with a friend. We have played each other fairly often over the years in both this game and other games as well so we are familiar with each other's playing style - which we will use as an excuse for some of our 'mis-plays' (the "I only did it cuz it would drive him wild!" excuse).

House Rules:

1) German Panzer Corps are locked into Army Group boundaries on the first turn.

2) No German Mechanized units south of Tarnopol on the first turn.

3) Soviets MUST attempt to ZOC every frontline Axis unit each turn. The frontline is defined as a unit which has no or a single Axis-Controlled between them and a non-isolated Soviet-Controlled hex.

4) There is a running total of "Blitz Points". If the Axis reach 15 by the end of Turn 25, they achieve an Automatic Victory (or optionally move the final victory condition two grades in their favor).

5) If the Axis have 10 Blitz Points at the end of Turn 25, they will move the final victory condition one grade in their favor.

6) Blitz Points are awarded at the end of the Axis Turn. Blitz penalties are awarded at the end of the Soviet Turn.

7) Blitz Point penalties consist of the Axis being awarded 1 Blitz Point for every 10 (rounded down) Axis frontline units that are not in a Soviet ZOC at the end of the Soviet Turn. An additional penalty is that if a city that has awarded Blitz Points to the Axis is either isolated or recaptured at the end of a Soviet Turn, that city will no longer award blitz points to the Axis at any time. The Soviets are also awarded 1 Blitz Point penalty for every 5 (rounded down) Axis stacks that are forced to retreat/rout/surrender in the turn.

8) Blitz Point Awards are based on the following city control by the Axis. Some of the turns are marked with a '?' and are awarded without regards to a turn. Where there are two turns indicated, they correspond to the two BP awards.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:33:11 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Axis Game Turn 1:

It's turn 1, what can you say? I am down 2 Blitz Points already with the fall of Riga and Lvov. AGS has formed two pockets (Kovel and Dubno), AGC has formed two (Grodno/Volkovysk and Yuratshki), and AGN has formed five (Liepaja, Ukmerge, Panevezys, Talsi, and Svencioneliai). All appear pretty solid except for the Yuratshki pocket in AGC and the Dubno in AGS.

AGN: Across the Dauga from Riga to Daugavpils already and in position to strike for Pskov next turn for the Blitz Point there. I will have to reinforce the Balkans in order to keep my frontline formed over the next few turns.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:33:57 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGC: With the traditional Bialystok pocket already reduced and beatened back, the German infantry will be able to pour through Vilnius in the north and Baranovichi in the south to help support the panzers next turn. They are well positioned to threaten both Smolensk and Gomel by turn 4 for the additional Blitz Points. They are also screening the Pripet Marshes pretty well and may pick up an additional Blitz Point or two if I can't ZOC them there.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:34:39 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGS: Good solid penetration along with the capture of Lvov exposes a lot of my forces there. The Kovel pocket traps the 22nd Mech Corps (MC) and looks pretty solid. The 15th MC near Kamenka-Bugskaya is pretty well trapped also. The AGS infantry has surged forward, but there are sufficient forces left on the flanks to keep the Axis infantry slowed down. Even without Recon yet, I can pinpoint the four panzer XXs so I can see the frontline will stretch from Rovno to Brody.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:38:38 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Soviet Game Turn 1:

I adjust the Air Doctrine to 5 Percent Required to Fly and the Intercepts up to 300. I then disband the SAD , PVO, Baltic, and Black Sea Airbases as unnecessary and a good amount of manpower to help build up the Soviet Army. I also disband the BAK commands and the Long Range Command.

All of my commanders have remained in place, although GENM Nikolaev is KIA. GENL Kuznetsov (3rd Army) earns a mention by Stalin as the only commander at the Army or higher level with more victories than defeats (5 victories / 4 defeats). Three Tank and one Motorized XX are removed for conversion. I also set all Soviet XXs to refit mode.

Recon shows me 37 Axis units that will need to be ZOCd in order to prevent an Axis Blitz Point. That also tells me that there are at least 4 or 5 that I did not detect that will bite me in the behind - so I better get all of the ones I see to be safe.

Counterattacks (okay, movement) by pocketed troops recapture the port of Liepaja, but the port is too damaged to use now. The Panevezys and Ukmerge pockets merge while the Yuratishki, Kovel, and Dubno pockets are relieved.

I attempt to form a front line to ZOC all of the Axis units and I am forced to leave 13 Axis Units (that I know of) unZOCd. So at least one, hopefully not two, Blitz Points will be awarded to the Axis. I also attempt to build up some defensive lines in my rear. I manage an okay line from Vitebsk to Mogilev, Pskov to Zilupo, and from Rovno to the Romanian border. Nothing that will really STOP the Axis drives, but at least slow them down enough not to lose Pskov, Vinnitsa, and Zhitomir next turn and give up more Blitz Points. Minsk is past its danger point in yielding BPs so I only have to worry about it to slow down the Axis and keep a front line formed.

<Actual count of non-ZOCd Axis Units is 14, so +1 BP for a total of 3 BPs on turn 1>

AGN:





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:40:30 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGC:





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 11:41:04 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		AGS:





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 12:56:32 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		looks interesting - have you tested/calibrated your 'blitz point' idea or is this the first outing?

Surprised you disbanded so many airbases and the long range command.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 2:57:27 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		This is the third run through. The first lasted about six turns in and there was a major patch that fixed the Soviet Morale ceiling so we restarted. The second time through went to turn 15 when it was an auto victory because my opponent got very good at gaming the ZOC points. So we added the Soviet ability to subtract BPs for every five retreats. Our notes showed that it would have balanced out better and the game we had been playing would have been at 8 BPs instead of 15 at that point.

I disband the SAD airbases and Long Range Command early because I have gotten burned by the 42 SAD Airbase disbanding a few times in the past. The Soviets benefit from the massive influx of manpower from the disbanding (over 300K manpower). I don't retreat all of the Air Groups to the Reserve like many players, preferring to keep the VVS flying in the early turns as a boost to defense and to hinder the LW. I have found that the normal airbases give me enough bases and I usually start to get reinforcement ABs in September / October frame when I start needing more. As to the Long Range Command, I don't tend to do as much Strategic Bombing and such as I probably should because the air game effects are strange in WitE. The WitW air rules are much better, although a bit much at times, and I will probably keep that command in WitE 2.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 3:24:20 PM   
Bozo_the_Clown


Posts: 890
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From: Bozotown
Status: offline 		Very nice house rules! Wouldn't the Blitz Points be enough of an incentive for the Soviet player to fight forward? You might not even need rule #3 which is somewhat complicated.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/2/2013 3:39:39 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Rule #3 is a primary rule to stop the runaway. It also means more pockets for the Axis. The BPs would be some incentive, but the Axis players on the forum blasted an earlier set of rules because "it gives nothing to the Axis, it just gives benefits to the Soviets" and that was with rule #3.

It really is not that difficult to do the rule itself. The only problem is verification if the Soviets do not have good recon. It really drives the Soviets to maintain a front line and, sometimes, stick around to be pocketed. Nothing that bad with either of those effects.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:19:34 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Axis Game Turn 2:

No Blitz Points awarded this turn as the Axis advance falls short of Pskov in the north and Zhitomir and Vinnitsa in the south. No large surprise on either of these developements - its just the way it is with a Soviet forward defense. The only non-broken pocket from Turn 1 that is still around is the Svencioneliai pocket where the 179th RD is still holding on. AGN has formed another pocket in the Madona area while AGC formed three (Ushachi, Minsk, and Berezino) and AGS reformed the Kovel pocket and formed a new one in the Shepetovka area.

AGN: Mechanized forces have reach the Velikaya River near Pskov. I am not sure if the infantry has crossed the Daugava as of yet, but they should be close. Something for my recon to try and discover. Novograd is a danger point for me now as it does not clear out its one BP value for two more turns.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:20:18 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGC: One Panzer Corps is over the Dvina and covering from Vitebsk to NE of Drissa. Another Panzer Corps covers south to Mogilev. The Berezino River line is completely breached north of Berezino and almost down to Bobruisk. The Pripet Marsh rail line is full of broken units and displaced HQs, but the major rail from Slutsk to Osipovichi is still in Soviet hands.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:20:56 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGS: The forces continue to advance. Southern Front is now released - before the Romanians. But having to keep the line ZOCd in will limit my ability to withdraw here. The Shepetovka pocket contains a lot of troops, but I should be able to relieve both that pocket and the Kovel one again. The Lvov salient is difficult to withdraw from without granting a lot of BPs for non-ZOCd units. I might have to bite the bullet on that one and not allow the Axis to continue to milk the points there.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:22:36 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Soviet Game Turn 2:

All of my commanders are still in place. Two GENM were killed (Lazarev and Petrov) last turn. Nobody of note still. I will begin replacing leaders around turn 4 or 5 after the Corps HQs are disbanded and I can start to reorganize the Soviet Army into Armies. While I have a few Mechanized and Airborne corps commanders that have more victories than defeats, I no longer have any Army or above commanders in that group. Two tank XXs go for reorganizing and one NKVD Border III is disbanded.

Recon shows me 48 Axis units to be ZOCd. Some of them will be difficult to reach. The Lvov Salient is beginning to be very dangerous at this point. The Romainians will be activated next turn and the pocket is just begging to be formed. It would probably cost me two BPs if I try and evacuate everyone now, but not all of my troops can get out of there, so I will try and be selective on who stays. All HQs, Mountain, and Armored units need to escape if possible, but the 15th MC is just too tied up to escape anyways.

AGN: I relieve the Madona pocket and use it to cut off the majority of the AGN Motorized forces. My defensive line for Pskov is pretty thin and the Zilupe section of the line is very weak. Hopefully the Axis will be delayed for another turn or two while the infantry will have to fight through to the panzers and let them resupply.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:24:24 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGC: I am able to relieve the Minsk and Berezino pockets while cutting off two Panzer Corps. This should delay the Axis infantry another turn. I have to defend further West than the Dnepr River and it means that my defensive line behind the river is weaker than normal. But I am also slowing down the Axis infantry and that should help more than the line usually does.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:27:07 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		AGS: I have pulled back some from the Lvov salient while leaving a rear guard that is trying to delay the Axis infantry as much as keeping Axis units ZOCd and not losing the BPs. I am able to do a good job of cutting up the Axis Panzer Corps and their supply lines. Two Panzer Corps (roughly) appear to have been isolated so their supply situation will not be the greatest next turn.





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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 12:27:55 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		Romania: I pulled back what I could while still ZOCing the Axis troops.

I rail out the Odessa and Mogilev ARMs. I spend the rest of my rail cap moving out 5 of the Leningrad Vehicle factories. I spend APs to create 5 sapper regiments in each of the activated Fronts and 4 for each of the forward MDs.

Overall a good turn. I am able to slow down the Axis forces with the forward defense, although pockets have been formed I have been able to break most of them. I have missed six Axis units unZOCd so hopefully I will not lose any BPs this turn. Currently the Axis have three BPs but it is early yet for both the Axis and the Soviets to really be getting too many.

<Actual count of non-ZOCd Axis units is 11, so another BP point for a total of 4.>

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 2:20:43 AM   
governato

 

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Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		This approach looks very promising. EDIT: the Blitz Points that is!

< Message edited by governato -- 9/4/2013 2:21:21 AM >

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 7:00:54 AM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: governato

This approach looks very promising. EDIT: the Blitz Points that is!


agree, it seems to be creating a rather nice mindset for Soviet play. The fear of encirclement is there but you can't simply rail the entire army out of the way. Nor, I guess, can you afford to strip the Ukraine of everything or you will give away too much advantage by failing to contest with AGS

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 8:51:55 AM   
Blubel

 

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Status: offline 		I think this is a really great idea. Have to try this some time.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 11:09:55 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		I am trying to stress the difference in mind set that the Blitz Points forces the Soviet player into. You worry about pockets, but there is a cost for retreating from them that you have to weigh before you do give up that territory. Or you try to figure out how to keep the pocket from forming, which is what the Soviets managed to do for three 'turns' (weeks) in the Smolensk battles.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 2:23:51 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
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Status: offline 		Carlkay58,

A few questions, please.

"1) German Panzer Corps are locked into Army Group boundaries on the first turn." - Is this rule needed with the new patch?


"3) Soviets MUST attempt to ZOC every frontline Axis unit each turn. The frontline is defined as a unit which has no or a single Axis-Controlled between them and a non-isolated Soviet-Controlled hex."

To be clear: the units one hex behind the most forward units do not count even though they may have a single Axis-controlled hex (occupied by an Axis unit) between them and a Soviet hex.

"4) There is a running total of "Blitz Points". If the Axis reach 15 by the end of Turn 25, they achieve an Automatic Victory (or optionally move the final victory condition two grades in their favor)."

What are the grades you are referring to?

"An additional penalty is that if a city that has awarded Blitz Points to the Axis is either isolated or recaptured at the end of a Soviet Turn, that city will no longer award blitz points to the Axis at any time."

Does the Axis player then lose any previously awarded points?

"8) Blitz Point Awards are based on the following city control by the Axis. Some of the turns are marked with a '?' and are awarded without regards to a turn. Where there are two turns indicated, they correspond to the two BP awards."

I assume no points if captured after the listed turn?

Thanks,

Marquo


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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 10:30:39 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		Marquo,

1) Yes. The Axis can do the 'extended Lvov' opening without violating anything else. This will immediately trap about 50% of the Southwestern Front - about the same as if the traditional Lvov opening is used. So it would only be a swap between the Northern portion of Southwestern Front and the southern portion - oh and the Blitz points that would be awarded from running away in the southern area . . .

3) Good clarification, thanks.

4) A grade of victory is the Victory type: Decisive, Major, Marginal, Draw, etc. So a two grade shift from a Soviet Marginal would go to Draw and then to Axis Marginal Victory.

5) Yes. If the Axis capture Smolensk on Turn 5 they will receive 1 BP. If the Soviets, at any time after this, manage to isolate or recapture Smolensk, the Axis player will lose the 1 BP and not be able to regain it. This is a strong incentive for the Soviets to counter attack with the goals of recapturing the major cities.

8) Correct, if the city is captured after Turn 25 (and all these rules end after Turn 25 - because then you enter Winter and all of its other problems) there are no BPs awarded. Essentially the BP total is evaluated on Turn 25. A historical BP total, by our rough count, would be 9. If the Axis better that, then the victory type would shift one category in their favor. So a Pelton who plays for an Axis draw would be able to turn that into an Axis Marginal victory if he scored 10 BPs or more.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 10:43:22 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Great example of house rules in action Carl. Look forward to seeing how this works out.

I wonder if the units in ZOC requirement would be easier to keep track of for the Soviet player and thus a bit more straightforward overall it if was based on the number of Soviets divisions with ZOC on German units rather than the number of German units without a Soviet unit adjacent.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/4/2013 10:45:14 PM >

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/4/2013 11:43:59 PM   
timmyab

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
I wonder if the units in ZOC requirement would be easier to keep track of for the Soviet player and thus a bit more straightforward overall it if was based on the number of Soviets divisions with ZOC on German units rather than the number of German units without a Soviet unit adjacent.

The only problem with that is that it could lead to some ultra wacky gaminess.The German player starts retreating back towards Berlin on turn one and wins by a blitz point knockout on turn 25.
In fact, thinking about it, wouldn't this already work with the rules as they are?


< Message edited by timmyab -- 9/4/2013 11:46:06 PM >

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/5/2013 2:37:51 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		Not really - a full withdrawal would be behind hexes that are already Axis controlled and thus no units in the front line = no BP penalty! A great offensive plan! The Soviets love it!

As the Soviet player, I do not know exactly where the Axis 'front line' units are. Thus, I have a great incentive to try and push back the Axis controlled territory. Gosh, Soviet offensives are forced on the Soviets in 41! Thus the mechanic is there to force the Soviets not only to defend forward, but to advance or counter attack into Axis controlled areas! The mechanic has made a large difference in how I view the game as a Soviet. The ZOC requirement forces the Soviets to try and maintain a front line at all costs. I have never before had to send troops into the Pripet Marshes or Baltic states just to keep a front line in contact with the Axis. On the other hand, the Axis casualties are pretty high in the game - about 25-30K per turn in attrition losses.

Unfortunately, I can't think of how this type of thing could be programmed into the game. The Soviet ZOC requirement is really a necessary portion of it all, but it is the most difficult portion of the whole idea.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/5/2013 10:34:55 AM   
timmyab

 

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Status: offline 		Oh I see.This is pretty cool.
I'm thinking it may still be gameable if the Axis player is that way inclined.Also I would incorporate a ban on bomber refueling.
If you could also come up with some rules for the blizzard this could get us to 42 in reasonable shape.
I would also add Tallinn and Sevastopol to the city list.Their naval bases had an importance that the game doesn't recognize and it would add width to the game.
Oh, and another thing.If the Germans are locked into army group boundaries perhaps the Soviet SW and Southern Front units should be too?

< Message edited by timmyab -- 9/5/2013 10:38:50 AM >

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/5/2013 10:54:11 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		Historically, on turn 1 two formations are railed from Southwestern Front to the Western Front. 16A and a corps that starts back by the Dnepr.

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RE: The Blitz is on! - 9/5/2013 11:24:48 AM   
timmyab

 

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Status: offline 		Stavka units could be free to move.

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