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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 9:06:19 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		So, the CVE would have to be part of a air combat TF for its fighters to fly CAP. Uh oh, I may have to Go Bullwinkle.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 9:32:19 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

So, the CVE would have to be part of a air combat TF for its fighters to fly CAP. Uh oh, I may have to Go Bullwinkle.



Either part of an undocked Air Combat/Escort/Amphbious taffy OR have its air groups flown off to an airfield.

There is another taffy type that would work "CV Escort" maybe? Forget the name.

Disbanded CV/CVL/CVE may repair their damaged aircraft in port but I am pretty sure they dont fly. Training might work. Not sure.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 9:39:52 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		By the way. You can fly in shorter legged non-carrier-capable fighters to Sabang from a CVE or something.

You transfer them in port to the CVE. They will appear damaged. You let the carrier lads repair the aircraft, then you approach within ferry range of Sabang. They will then take an order to transfer to base. In this way you could bring P-39's and Hurri's into the fight so you dont have to watch the P-40's fall out of the air by the dozen.

Of course, you have to protect the CVE because they cant fly combat or CAP missions from the carrier


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 9:59:16 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		My experience is that the P-40K performs pretty well in combat. I may be about to learn differently through the school of hard knocks. If the P-40K flown by good pilots isn't up to this mission, I'm in big trouble.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3394
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 10:07:02 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My experience is that the P-40K performs pretty well in combat. I may be about to learn differently through the school of hard knocks. If the P-40K flown by good pilots isn't up to this mission, I'm in big trouble.


Perhaps, but what about replacement pools? Nice to have some RAF airframes in the fight to share the burden. I suppose if you run out of P-40K's you could convert a burnt out squadron to P-39's en situ.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 10:17:44 PM   
Canoerebel


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Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I only have about 30 P-40K in the pools and only about 15 F4F, so indeed that will be a problem. But I do have perhaps 100 P-39, so that may be of some help.

A few months back I mentioned that I think there's something wrong in RA with P-38G production. I have no pools, have just one squadron equipped, and probably haven't lost a single P-38G in combat in two months. IE, even though I haven't lost any I don't have any. Doesn't seem right that by late 1942 the Allies don't have but 25 available.

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Post #: 3396
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/4/2013 10:57:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Turn sent. I think something happens on Boxing Day. Call it second sight or ESP or clairvoyance. But I will also note that I do not gamble or predict the outcome of elections, for I am usually wrong.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 12:01:23 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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Status: offline 		Go get 'em, CR! Well, actually, stand fast and get 'em, but the principle is the same.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 12:35:21 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Turn sent. I think something happens on Boxing Day. Call it second sight or ESP or clairvoyance. But I will also note that I do not gamble or predict the outcome of elections, for I am usually wrong.
Hmmmmm, bordering on politics again but I don't think predicting elections in Georgia would be all that tough. Same could be said about parts of New York though. My county is actually 50/50 Red/Blue but my E.D. , "The Peoples Republic of Northport", usually goes blue

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 1:05:08 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
But I will also note that I do not gamble or predict the outcome of elections, for I am usually wrong.


Forget about elections but if you could guarantee to be wrong at least 60% of the time on college football we could all make some big money.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 1:40:14 AM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		I'm 100% sure that CR is right at least 50% of the time......or something to that effect.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 2:50:25 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

By the way. You can fly in shorter legged non-carrier-capable fighters to Sabang from a CVE or something.

You transfer them in port to the CVE. They will appear damaged. You let the carrier lads repair the aircraft, then you approach within ferry range of Sabang. They will then take an order to transfer to base. In this way you could bring P-39's and Hurri's into the fight so you dont have to watch the P-40's fall out of the air by the dozen.

Of course, you have to protect the CVE because they cant fly combat or CAP missions from the carrier




The only mission that USAAF non-carrier capable aircraft could perform in this context would be 'transfer'. Interestingly, you can carry up to twice the rated numbers of aircraft for the 'ferry' operation of which you speak (manual 15.4.1.2).

CR-have you thought about the use of AKV shipping for this purpose? Keep your flight decks clear for fighting purposes if nothing else.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 2:55:55 AM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		Oh, one last thing, Dan. If you choose to use your CV airgroups at Sabang, John will have nearly instantaneous information in the combat report regarding the identity of the units taking part in these sorties. If he can time it right, he may be able to bag your carriers after they are separated from their landbound airgroups. Operating your CVs 'naked' within 22 hexes of Sabang is a risk that may be prosecuted.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 3:03:27 PM   
Lomri

 

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CDs are also useful for shooting at enemy minesweepers. I don't know what range they have to have to be effective but have you ever tried sweeping Truk? The Fort there just blows your AMs out of the water instantly. They DO sweep a tiny bit first. You have enough SAGs at Sabang that this kind of sweeping isn't going to happen (or happen any time soon) but thought it was worth saying CDs can make minefields that much more challenging to deal with.

80-90% cap? Sure, over stacking the pilot pool keeps fatigue down... pilot fatigue! But your airframe fatigue will creep up. Keep an eye on that. If you find yourself maintaining this level of activity you could start getting a cascade of maintenance issues with airframes. I see this as a real issue because if you keep an even load of fatigue on your airframes you are more likely to have them all need maintenance around the same time.


As for the 200 passes issue you mentioned from GJ's AAR, working off the same data (having read the AAR) and minimal experience with aircombat with that many aircraft I think a reasonable operating assumption is that if he commits an equal number of fighters as you have plus bombers you should expect enough bombers to get through that it will put some hurt on your shipping. Not a reason NOT to do what you are doing, but best to plan for it.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 3:06:03 PM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

A few months back I mentioned that I think there's something wrong in RA with P-38G production. I have no pools, have just one squadron equipped, and probably haven't lost a single P-38G in combat in two months. IE, even though I haven't lost any I don't have any. Doesn't seem right that by late 1942 the Allies don't have but 25 available.


What does the Intel screen say about monthly production, this month? and combined P-38G production so far?
As said by other i see no difference in the numbers between RA and the normal scn. That doesnt mean that a flaw hasnt creept in, but there could be other factors.
U only get 20 per month in production in both RA and standart scn between 10/42 and 5/43. So u say u havent lost any in 2 month in combat that should leave u with 40 from the last 2 months production.
Problem is 20 is not really a fixed number. As the math per turn is 20(production)/30(days) = 67% chance per day of getting 1. Still its a roll u could theoritcally have missed all the rolls and gotten nada. Its not very likely but having follow the fluctuasion over seveal of my games the worst i had is only getting 1/3 of what i was suppose to over a 3 month periode of one particular airframe while on the other hand getting 25 in a month instead of the 15 i was suppose too in another airframe. So these things can fluctuate and it could be that. That doesnt per say have any thing to do with RA.
Other than that. P-38 has a high service rating. In my first games i played i didnt pay much attention to plane fatigue and such. I have a feeling its the same for u. Any how once i understod how it impacts ops/transfere losses especially with high SR aircrafts and toke this into account my ops losses has decreased much. Again i have no idea if that is the reason u dont give details like that in ur AAR, just saying its a possibility knowing u dont tend to pay much attention to the micromangement side of the game. Not that i blame u.


Any how if u willing and want me too, if u send me a turn ill tally up the numbers and see if i can find any inconsistancies.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 9/5/2013 3:13:07 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 3:41:47 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		There's no perfect solution, but I have to maintain the highest possible level of CAP, I think, to stand a chance. IE, it's the best combination possible.

I don't mind losing this battle in a fair fight - the KB or combat ships come in and win a stand-up battle with my ships; or after a tough struggle, his LBA wins. But I hope this doesn't come down to John having essentially unlimited numbers of aircraft while mine are limited in the extreme.

I could have foreseen this eventuality and taken this into account in planning this op. So it's on me if I've gotten myself into something bigger than I can handle. I also realize that some players could take the advantages achieved in this game - the Allied move on Sumatra was indeed massive and utterly successful - and work their magic making the op more successful than I have.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 4:39:36 PM   
pws1225

 

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Status: offline 		Regardless of how this all turns out, you are to be congratulated on not being afraid to push the envelope on what's possible for the Allies in 1942.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 4:51:38 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

A few months back I mentioned that I think there's something wrong in RA with P-38G production. I have no pools, have just one squadron equipped, and probably haven't lost a single P-38G in combat in two months. IE, even though I haven't lost any I don't have any. Doesn't seem right that by late 1942 the Allies don't have but 25 available.


And shouldn't you be seeing some Spitfires by now?

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 9/5/2013 4:57:52 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 5:39:17 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I don't mind losing this battle in a fair fight - the KB or combat ships come in and win a stand-up battle with my ships; or after a tough struggle, his LBA wins. But I hope this doesn't come down to John having essentially unlimited numbers of aircraft while mine are limited in the extreme.


You won't get a fair fight. John can have huge numerical advantage over you, it's a question of whether he chooses to press his numerical advantage here. I'd do it. Anybody with a numerical advantage should choose to maximize that advantage while it lasts.

Fight fair? Pistols at 20 paces at the drop of a kerchief? No thanks.

Invading Sabang in the Fall of 1942 is gutsy. It's not a "safe" play. You can't expect a marginal response from an experienced player like John. You're going to get two kitchen sinks, and rightly so. You stuck your neck out on this venture. You can't deride the means by which your opponent takes advantage of your over extension (if he can that is).

YMMV/IMVHO.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/5/2013 5:42:47 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 5:56:24 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There's no perfect solution, but I have to maintain the highest possible level of CAP, I think, to stand a chance. IE, it's the best combination possible.

I don't mind losing this battle in a fair fight - the KB or combat ships come in and win a stand-up battle with my ships; or after a tough struggle, his LBA wins. But I hope this doesn't come down to John having essentially unlimited numbers of aircraft while mine are limited in the extreme.

I could have foreseen this eventuality and taken this into account in planning this op. So it's on me if I've gotten myself into something bigger than I can handle. I also realize that some players could take the advantages achieved in this game - the Allied move on Sumatra was indeed massive and utterly successful - and work their magic making the op more successful than I have.



Not sure if this is correct. If you have good working radar at the base then a lower CAP setting is optimal. If you have no radar then this is the best you can do but it is hard on the planes.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 6:38:15 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I must have 50 units at Sabang, including tons of engineers and base forces (aviaton support is now at 1,100 - which is doubled to 2,200 since it's a level eight field). Surely I have radar, but I confess I haven't checked. Will do so next turn. Tell me, though, do you guys trust radar enough to lower your CAP percentages? If so, how would you configure your fighter squadrons if you considered an overwhelming attack imminent?

I should note that none of my fighter squadrons have any disabled aircraft - not a single plane out of 350+. Probably this is due to the size of the airfield and the tremendous av. support.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:04:30 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

(aviaton support is now at 1,100 - which is doubled to 2,200 since it's a level eight field)


In the turn immediately following the airfield expanding from size 7 to size 8 the display has not yet caught up. But after that, the total shown on the base display includes the doubling.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:04:52 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Regarding Chickenboy's comments, I'm expecting John to fight hard, but I'm hoping this isn't a game of chess in which he begins with four rooks with four replacement rooks while I get two. I would be okay with that if I got three queens, which I do, but the extra two don't arrive until 1944, by which time his eight rooks might have made things unpleasant.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:05:23 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Witpqs, I had 1100 av support before the doubling.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:17:19 PM   
Lomri

 

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Radar makes a huge difference. Like the difference in effectiveness of LRCAP vs normal CAP - that big a difference.

If I forget to drop radar at a base I can tell pretty quickly by how CAP is behaving.

With that much AV support it's hard to imagine you don't have a radar set in the bunch ;) Unless you have frag'ed BFs with the radar still at home (which is possible since they need are a pain to unload).

Marine Def units come with radar too, VERY handy for stack limit islands.

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Post #: 3415
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:35:28 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, you guys made me curious, so I checked the radar status at Sabang. I have six SCR-270 Radar devices (two each for three base force units). Is that good? Any suggestions on how I should optimize my CAP settings? To refresh, I have 350 fighters at this level eight airfield with 1,100 aviation support. No fighters are disabled (probably due to av. support). Current settings are mostly 80% CAP or 90% CAP no rest. Can I do better?

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Post #: 3416
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:36:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Omitted duplicate posting.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/5/2013 7:37:38 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:50:08 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Okay, you guys made me curious, so I checked the radar status at Sabang. I have six SCR-270 Radar devices (two each for three base force units). Is that good? Any suggestions on how I should optimize my CAP settings? To refresh, I have 350 fighters at this level eight airfield with 1,100 aviation support. No fighters are disabled (probably due to av. support). Current settings are mostly 80% CAP or 90% CAP no rest. Can I do better?


I assume your CAP range is set to 0?

My opinion is that your base force / AV support / radar support is excellent. CAP of 80-90% is too high and prone to inducing fatigue if used for longer than a day or two. Unless you're GAR-ON-TEED a strike tomorrow, you may want to back that back down to 60-70%. 60% CAP with the level of support you're providing should last you a good many days of hard fighting before fatigue / morale deteriorates.

Are you doing the 'multiple altitude bands' CAP thing?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:54:38 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Regarding Chickenboy's comments, I'm expecting John to fight hard, but I'm hoping this isn't a game of chess in which he begins with four rooks with four replacement rooks while I get two. I would be okay with that if I got three queens, which I do, but the extra two don't arrive until 1944, by which time his eight rooks might have made things unpleasant.


Dan, just so's we're clear-using your analogy-this is a game of chess in which he begins with 2 rooks with four replacement rooks while you get two. You get three queens in 1944, by which time his 6 rooks might have made things unpleasant. The eight rooks analogy would be scenario 2.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/5/2013 7:55:03 PM >

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Post #: 3419
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/5/2013 7:59:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I don't know exactly how to compare Scenario Two and RA, but I think the air war is identical and it's only the air war that worries me.

Yes, range for all fighter squadrons is (and has been forever) set at range zero. I have CAP staggered from around 14k to 39k (the latter being the P-38G squadron). I do not know anything about altitutde bands. I've heard you guys talk about them, I know they can have signficance, but I don't know how to find them nor what to do when I do find them. IE, my P-40K squadrons, the backbone of my defense force at Sabang, is scattered from 14k to 29k. If they should be concentrated at specific altitudes to match the altitude bands, I haven't done that (obviously).

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/5/2013 8:00:17 PM >

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