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OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 1:11:04 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		I know I'm in the wrong ocean but it seems there are quite a few folks here who like to read about the Bismarck. In any case here's a link to the contemporary report of the British interrogation of the survivors:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BismarckINT.htm

(A lot of links to contemporary British interrogation reports are to be found at uboatarchive.net: interesting reading).

< Message edited by spence -- 9/7/2013 1:13:36 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 2:06:32 AM   
Chickenboy


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Joined: 6/29/2002
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Status: offline 		Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 3:46:12 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?

Niagara Falls...

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 4:21:14 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?
warspite1

Naughty


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 8:34:19 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		Scuttled! hehe can of worms...
After reading report
Amazing accuracy gunnery at 25,000 yards Bismarck only fired 32 15inch rounds at Hood to sink her the last 8 was a waste of Ammo...then first salvo at POW hits!
as I note the BB VS BB web site putts Bismarck gunnery as the worst! lol

Tigercub

< Message edited by tigercub -- 9/7/2013 9:31:33 AM >

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 9:16:35 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

Mind you HOODS first Salvo Hit Bismarck.

Tigercub
warspite1

I would be interested to hear where you read that? All accounts I have read suggest Hood hit nothing during the engagement.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 9:29:32 AM   
tigercub


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From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		"Hood," according to "Bismarck" prisoners, fired first, the salvo being over. A second salvo from "Hood" fell short, but the third hit, and three shells in all struck "Bismarck."

I miss read! Warspite

Tigercub

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 10:18:44 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

"Hood," according to "Bismarck" prisoners, fired first, the salvo being over. A second salvo from "Hood" fell short, but the third hit, and three shells in all struck "Bismarck."

I miss read! Warspite

Tigercub
warspite1

The accounts I have read suggest Hood initially fired wrongly at Prinz Eugen and that she only belatedly switched fire to Bismarck. Even so, she hit nothing during the encounter. It was Prince of Wales, realising Hood's mistake, that fired at - and hit - the Bismarck.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 11:53:10 PM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?
warspite1

Naughty


I suppose it finds the same category as "How many IJN Carriers did the USN sink at Midway"

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/7/2013 11:56:42 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?
warspite1

Naughty


I suppose it finds the same category as "How many IJN Carriers did the USN sink at Midway"

You might ask "How many carriers did the IJN sink at Midway?"

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 12:06:12 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		Only one, but all 4 KB Carriers were scuttled by the IJN.

All 4 in a similar state to Bismark.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 12:15:23 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Only one, but all 4 KB Carriers were scuttled by the IJN.

All 4 in a similar state to Bismark.

So your one-word answer would have to be "Five!", eh?

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 1:07:46 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		Yep, the Brain was working so hard on my question ..........

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 2:56:26 AM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I am reading the "Battle of the Denmark Strait" to my sons right now and it states Prince of Wales realized which German ship was which before a salvo was fired. Pretty impressive considering she had green crew and lousy guns. We haven't actually gotten to the point of opening fire but it has been pretty well written this point.


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 3:48:20 AM   
geofflambert


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Status: offline 		The correct procedure would have been to move PoW closer and have Hood maintain range, then both close. Hood's firepower was competitive with Bismark's and PoW's armor was competitive with Bismark. Hood would likely not have been lost if that had been done.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 3:57:43 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The British Adm fought an AWFUL Battle.


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 4:39:58 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Only one, but all 4 KB Carriers were scuttled by the IJN.

All 4 in a similar state to Bismark.


Didn't a sub sink the Yorktown? ;)

Along with DD Hammann, of course.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 6:37:39 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?
warspite1

Naughty


I suppose it finds the same category as "How many IJN Carriers did the USN sink at Midway"
warspite1

JeffK by this comment are you recalling the "debate" from the World In Flames forum?

It was pointed out to me by a poster some time ago that although the Bismarck was sunk, all the honour and glory in that engagement fell to the Germans because the RN didn't actually sink the Bismarck.

He would not accept any argument to the contrary and I pointed out that under his way of thinking, Midway was a glorious victory to the IJN .

He still couldn't see it though....


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 6:45:22 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The British Adm fought an AWFUL Battle.

warspite1

To be fair Admiral Holland went into the fight with a largely unmodernised relic of World War I design. HMS Hood's lack of deck armour meant that she was most vulnerable to plunging shell-fire and thus Holland felt the best course of action was to close the range as quickly as possible. Hood was closing fast and at the point of turning, and thus being able to bring her broadside to bear, when her vulnerability was all too tragically exposed.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/8/2013 8:21:53 AM >

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 4:10:20 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?
warspite1

Naughty


I suppose it finds the same category as "How many IJN Carriers did the USN sink at Midway"
warspite1

JeffK by this comment are you recalling the "debate" from the World In Flames forum?

It was pointed out to me by a poster some time ago that although the Bismarck was sunk, all the honour and glory in that engagement fell to the Germans because the RN didn't actually sink the Bismarck.

He would not accept any argument to the contrary and I pointed out that under his way of thinking, Midway was a glorious victory to the IJN .

He still couldn't see it though....


We were joking about those sort of exchanges, honest!

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 5:54:53 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Interesting. But why so much fuss about a ship that was scuttled?
warspite1

Naughty


I suppose it finds the same category as "How many IJN Carriers did the USN sink at Midway"
warspite1

JeffK by this comment are you recalling the "debate" from the World In Flames forum?

It was pointed out to me by a poster some time ago that although the Bismarck was sunk, all the honour and glory in that engagement fell to the Germans because the RN didn't actually sink the Bismarck.

He would not accept any argument to the contrary and I pointed out that under his way of thinking, Midway was a glorious victory to the IJN .

He still couldn't see it though....


We were joking about those sort of exchanges, honest!
warspite1

Sadly the person I had the debate with on the WIF forum was not.....


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 6:09:50 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Sadly the person I had the debate with on the WIF forum was not.....


I've been party/observer to similar discussions here. The details vary, the mindlessness rarely varies.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/8/2013 8:30:40 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Sadly the person I had the debate with on the WIF forum was not.....


I've been party/observer to similar discussions here. The details vary, the mindlessness rarely varies.
warspite1



I suppose if you take the analogy to its limit then those people can always argue the Allies did not win the Second World War; after all they did not bring Hitler to account. The glory and the honour goes to Adolf as he scuttled himself


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 2:46:05 AM   
witpqs


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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 2:57:58 AM   
denisonh


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Status: offline 		Is somebody trying to resurrect the Bismarck thread? That thing went on forever (until the "The Thread" redefined forever...)

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 3:00:32 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Is somebody trying to resurrect the Bismarck thread? That thing went on forever (until the "The Thread" redefined forever...)

No it didn't.

Yes it did.

Oh wait, is this the abuse department?

No, this is argument, abuse is down the hall!

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 3:21:07 AM   
denisonh


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From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		Nice reference. The Bismarck thread was the forum incarnation of the "Argument Clinic"

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 8:05:40 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Nice reference. The Bismarck thread was the forum incarnation of the "Argument Clinic"


And while we are at it let us not forget:

- the "Zero" vs. "Wildcat" thread

- the "Sherman" vs. "Tiger" thread




Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 8:14:44 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
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Status: offline 		I suppose it brings up that it was fairly standard practice for a Navy to scuttle its cripples rather than allow the enemy to discover any "secrets"

If I recall correctly a number of USN & RAN ships were scuttled after Savo Island.

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RE: OT: Battleship Bismarck - 9/9/2013 10:17:55 AM   
LoBaron


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Status: offline 		Since Bismarck was sunk it does not really matter though, does it?

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