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RE: December 29, 1941 - 9/10/2013 9:00:57 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is your info here intentionally cryptic?

Where is this strike hitting? What were the loss ratios for the day? What do you mean he is running away?

Cryptic? Me??? Totally innocent...

Didn't have time to Post Turn results. The entire Allied Fleet pulled away and disappeared!

The MIGHTY Tojo flies this turn coming up. Early prediction: 75 Tojo for 175 Allied Planes. The damned range is a certain disadvantage...

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Post #: 1411

Here we go... - 9/10/2013 11:02:56 PM

John 3rd

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Home and running turn. Let us see what happens team.

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Post #: 1412

RE: Here we go... - 9/10/2013 11:07:45 PM

GreyJoy

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can't wait

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Post #: 1413

RE: Here we go... - 9/10/2013 11:20:31 PM

ny59giants

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I would open a beer, but I'm on call tonight.

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Post #: 1414

Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/10/2013 11:37:41 PM

John 3rd

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A start:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1415

RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 12:08:36 AM

zuluhour

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YOU TEASE!!

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Post #: 1416

Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 12:46:32 AM

John 3rd

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Combat Report
January 1, 1943

Operation Falcon is launched this day and the results are pretty wild. As expected ALL eight Sentai of Tojos (flying from the same base and at the same altitude) come in ONE AT A TIME. Strike coordination: ZERO. OK.

I'll detail the strikes just a bit to give you some idea of resistance:

Raid 1: 42 Tojo vs. 271 Fighters (Composition: 11 Beaufighter, 6 P-38E, 16 P-38G, 63 P-40E, 88 P-40K, and 87 F4F-4)
R2: 42 vs 247
R3: 42 vs 225
R4: 42 vs.186
R5: 30 vs. 154
R6: 39 vs. 131
R7: 34 vs. 99
R8: 30 vs. 76

Losses for Day ONE are even. All my Tojos came in at 32,000 Ft and bounced all Allied fighters except the P-38s.

Pilot Losses: KIA 41, MIA 27, WIA 10.

Draw pilots and planes from the pool. Order 4 Sentai to SWEEP tomorrow and rest the other four for a day. The 3rd's attack will feature at least 4 Sentai (will shot for 5-6) and we'll bring the Zeros into it (150 or so of these). Let us see how long this can be kept up on either side.

KB draws nearer Sabang and is no longer spotted. If the ships flush then we'll move in hit them.

ANY ideas on Strike Co-ordination? Am all ears fellas!!!

Here are my numbers. See if you can get Dan to go through his actual losses. Would REALLY love to see if these numbers are near accurate:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/11/2013 12:47:15 AM >

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 12:51:57 AM

zuluhour

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Does weather hamper coordination? I read somewhere that cruising speed maybe a factor.

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Post #: 1418

RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 2:36:42 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Does weather hamper coordination? I read somewhere that cruising speed maybe a factor.

They are all Tojos. No differing planes or speeds...

It must be range. This is a LONG way for them to fly...

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Post #: 1419

RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 2:45:20 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Strike coordination: ZERO. OK.

You're not going to get good strike coordination-different chutai/sentai sweeping together. Just not going to happen. Getting independent groups to sweep as a cohesive whole is progress enough.

I don't know if the sweep coordination issue is hardcoded, but I do know it's a long-standing standard issue affecting both Allies and IJ.

Thus, each sweep you sent in was against superior CAP numbers at whatever altitudes he had his CAP set. I think you came out well with 1:1 losses. You can afford an attritional fighter battle here (I hope you came prepared to swap out / rebuild losses per suggestions). With his pathetic fighter pools he cannot.

Your sweeps should look better in the coming days, particularly when the numbers favor your sweepers at >2:1 ratio. Then you'll really start to knock 'em down.

Patience, grasshopper. Now snatch the pebble from my hand!

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 3:40:19 AM

ny59giants

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quote:

Patience, grasshopper. Now snatch the pebble from my hand!

John sees himself more as a young Jedi.

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Post #: 1421

RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 3:42:47 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Patience, grasshopper. Now snatch the pebble from my hand!

John sees himself more as a young Jedi.

He's playing for the wrong side then!

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Post #: 1422

RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 7:17:59 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Strike coordination: ZERO. OK.

You're not going to get good strike coordination-different chutai/sentai sweeping together. Just not going to happen. Getting independent groups to sweep as a cohesive whole is progress enough.

I don't know if the sweep coordination issue is hardcoded, but I do know it's a long-standing standard issue affecting both Allies and IJ.

Thus, each sweep you sent in was against superior CAP numbers at whatever altitudes he had his CAP set. I think you came out well with 1:1 losses. You can afford an attritional fighter battle here (I hope you came prepared to swap out / rebuild losses per suggestions). With his pathetic fighter pools he cannot.

Your sweeps should look better in the coming days, particularly when the numbers favor your sweepers at >2:1 ratio. Then you'll really start to knock 'em down.

Patience, grasshopper. Now snatch the pebble from my hand!

I am trying to be patient. We'll hit with 160 Tojo tomorrow and then we'll throw as many Tojo as possible plus 200 Zeros the day after.

The real question is when to unleash the Bettys/Nells for the shipping present and the Helens to hit the AF. Think that I may try that on Day Three. His morale will be lower and I'll send in fresh pilots from the Zeros. Might be a pretty good moment to strike.

Could always add 300+ Zeros from KB...hmmm...is that stupid or a decent idea? He only has a couple of Strike Squadrons from his CVEs present. Everything else are fighters.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/11/2013 7:19:09 AM >

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 8:40:52 AM

kjnoel

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quote:

Could always add 300+ Zeros from KB...hmmm...is that stupid or a decent idea? He only has a couple of Strike Squadrons from his CVEs present. Everything else are fighters.

Don't do it. Your Tojos are SR1 while his best is SR2. Your Tojos are more than capable of clearing Sabang without KB. No reason to blunt KB.

< Message edited by kjnoel -- 9/11/2013 8:41:14 AM >

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 9:01:26 AM

obvert

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Are your sweeps coming in just the morning phase to Sabang or did they arrive in the afternoon as well? You could have trouble if all of your sweeps knock the CAP down in the morning phase but they come back up in strength for the afternoon.

Using the KB for sweeps will blunt your power against his CVs. I would definitely NOT strike at Sabang with naval air as the flak could be murder. Also, all of the merchies that will likely come flooding out just before his CVs get close enough to engage will take away your TT missions, and if you haven't get some AKE to one of the islands close by for a quick refill.

All of this in mind I'd say the third day would be decent for some strikes at the fields especially. If his groups take refills and if there are damaged planes you could get a good haul and bring morale down of all of his fighters by getting some damage on the fields. Port strikes are fun but unless you have the good 80exp IJN pilots flying in those Netties you're not likely to get the 800kg bombs. If you can they would dent the BBs pretty good and that could be worth it.

For your sweeps you won't get cooperation (we can't use the word coordination because they don't coordinate, they cooperate

) above normal range usually in my experience. Occasionally Jocke has with Mustangs and P-47s flying out of level 9 fields, likely with 1000+ AS, but not with Tojos in 42 out of level 5-6 fields.

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 11:34:10 AM

zuluhour

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night? get some airfield damage?

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Post #: 1426

RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 2:51:03 PM

John 3rd

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We're trying to get two in this morning.

Day TWO of Operation Falcon about to be watched.

Will jump on with comments, observations, and questions before I send the file to Dan.

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 4:18:24 PM

SuluSea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

night? get some airfield damage?

Looks like good advice to me. Damaged planes could be destroyed upon landing with the pilots dying and it helps keep down building of other assets while the field is being repaired.

Win-Win

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 5:25:01 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

quote:

Could always add 300+ Zeros from KB...hmmm...is that stupid or a decent idea? He only has a couple of Strike Squadrons from his CVEs present. Everything else are fighters.

Don't do it. Your Tojos are SR1 while his best is SR2. Your Tojos are more than capable of clearing Sabang without KB. No reason to blunt KB.

I agree. Plus your land-based A6Ms should help spell the pressure on your Tojos for a day or two. The Allies are putting their all into contesting the airspace over Sabang (hence 300+ fighters). If you wanted a place where you could force some multi-day losses on his air forces, this is the place to do it.

I wouldn't bomb until you decimate his fighter support. I'd much rather see your Helen and Sallys shoulder the onus of bombing too. Then, once you get a feel for when he flushes shipping out of Sabang, you can move KB in for destroying ships at sea as they flee.

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Operation Falcon--Day 3 - 9/11/2013 6:02:36 PM

John 3rd

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January 3, 1942

A short teaser since I am late for work. MUST do a detailed Posting when I get home. Trust me: MUST!

THIS is more like it!

Attachment (1)

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 3 - 9/11/2013 6:08:36 PM

pws1225

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Yes!

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Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 8:52:29 PM

John 3rd

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Just got this from Dan:

John,

I want to take a break from the game. I'd say "permanantly," but I know better than to make something final without first taking some time off to re-orient and relax. However, I do want to be candid in saying that I go into this with that possiblity in mind.

The main problem (not the only one, by any means, but the main one) is that the Allied fighter pools have zero in them. I have nothing to fight with. I only have one P-39G squadron on the board, haven't lost any to think of, and yet only have nine in the pools. I think there's something wrong with the mod (or perhaps the game as a whole), but I could be wrong. But I don't see how the game can be so unbalanced, permitting the Japanese to control the intensity, giving the Japanese nearly unlimited pools, and not giving making the minimal adjustments needed so that the Allies can fight back fairly and offer decent competition.

I'd simply come to you and ask for an adjustment so that the Allies would have something reasonable in the pools, but, as stated, this is just one of the factors weighing in the decision.

The game has been very fun and tense, keeping me up late at night etc. That's part of the problem too. When we took that six week break it allowed me to see just how much more relaxed I was when I'm not playing.

I know you've given both the mod and this game alot of attention and effort. It's been a fun ride that's a blast - too fun, I think.

Okay, this isn't my final word. I'll let you know after I've had some time to relax and gather my thoughts. In the meantime, if you want to take new opportunities to play, don't let the "non-finality" of my decision influence you. I hereby release you to pursue new games.

Dan

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Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 8:53:41 PM

John 3rd

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Comments?

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Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 9:05:18 PM

John 3rd

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Got to go back to work but this is what I emailed Dan:

Dan,

I concur with your thinking. My time �off� was rewarding as well. You and I had a good chat when we re-started this one and knew our respective positions.

If you DO decide to quit the game, I would LOVE to see if someone might want to pick it up and it continue forward.

As to the production issue you speak about, this is something I�ll throw out onto the Mod side of things. Any comments you have specifically regarding this PLEASE toss out the thinking over in that thread. We�re just about ready to release 6.0 but I could hold on that pending discussion. Don�t think I can make changes to the existing game but will enquire as to that possibility.

Let me know your thoughts. Might give you a call tomorrow morning if that is OK.

Warmly,
John

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RE: Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 9:33:08 PM

SuluSea

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I disagree with adding allied airframes. The low amount of airframes experienced on the Allied side is the butchers bill for going on the offensive too early in Burma, Malaya and Sumatra.

The allied player contesting the airwar over enemy territory is going to cost experienced jocks which in the end is going to cost more planes because of less experienced (well trained) pilots. Atleast over his own base staying on the defensive he'd get more back not to mention flying less hex's he'd put less strain on the airframes to begin with resulting in more stocks. What was it that Eastwood said to Hal Holbrook?

If he reflects on his game he fought in your back yard much too early and is only reaping what was sowed. A heavy air campaign is just what the Japanese side needs and what he gave you. You were going to break his back whether it be today, tommorrow or weeks from now depending on what the influx of planes would be.

Very nice comeback from the heavy Sumatran body blow. I'm a believer that you would have retaken all of Sumatra setting his war effort back a year if not longer but we may never know.

Everything said , Dan's an entertaining, top type guy, I hope to see him around again.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 9/11/2013 9:37:21 PM >

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RE: Operation Falcon--Day 1 - 9/11/2013 9:50:50 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
ANY ideas on Strike Co-ordination? Am all ears fellas!!!

To my knowledge and what has been posted in various threads; sweeps do not and never will coordinate. The best they can do is arrive at roughly the same time. If this is correct, it may be wise to include a few low sweeps to pull CAP down so your higher altitude sweeps can pounce. No need to suggest what aircraft or pilot skills should be committed to be the fodder.

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RE: Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 10:16:20 PM

kjnoel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Comments?

Allies get too aggressive in the air too early and run out of airframes.... it's as true in scenario 1 as it is in RA (well, with PDU on of course). What else is there to say?

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RE: Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 11:03:42 PM

Chickenboy

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I vascillate on this one, John.

I agree wholeheartedly with SuluSea and kjnoel first off.��They've said nothing that I don't completely agree with.� Dan went on the offensive probably 6-12 months too early (Pools?� Who needs pools?) knowing full well he was shackled to poor airframe replacement pools and you were not.� If he didn't know that the pools would stink (a la Scenario 1) for the Allies, he should have heeded any number of commentators to his AAR to familiarize himself with the Japanese and Allied OOB more thouroughly in preparation for your match.� This exhortation included the advice to treat his aircraft (particularly fighter) pools gingerly, as they were a precious commodity.� He's had experience with other scenario 1 or 2 games (isn't this his 7th or 8th?), so he knows the 'game' vis a vis Japanese production flexibility.� Or at least he should.� To bring this issue up now, after >1 year of war and�after he may be (arguably?) overextended doesn't strike me as the best way to approach a game.

That being said, there are some HRs that you have both agreed upon that are exacerbating the Allied airframe hardcode replacements.� If you to mitigate or "give a little" on some of those, both you and he will find that takes some of the pressure off of his Allied fighter pools-a bit.� I'd ask him about his thoughts on those HRs.

Lastly, I don't know the Allied replacement pools in RA.� Are they the same as Scenario 1 or 2 or are they further truncated?� If the latter, I think it's reasonable to 'bump them' up to the replacements in either Sc 1 or 2-whichever is higher.� If you could compare and contrast P-39; P-40K; F4F; Hurricane II lines and P-38 lines between these three different scenarios,that would be educational for those of us that haven't touched this mod either.� If they're all the same, or if RA is comparatively stingy, then that may be a source of discussion.

As for the 'set this game aside for a while until I regain interest" request...My experience is that when someone loses interest in the game, it's time to end it.� Full stop.� It's different if someone has a work issue, domestic crisis, is moving, whatnot-when they can resume the game in earnest after a period of time.� But to let it linger until some nebulous future date which may or may not come about?� I probably wouldn't accept that and would unilateral terminate the match.� No hard feelings and all that.� Just put paid to it and move on.

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RE: Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 11:26:19 PM

AdmNelson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Comments?

John

Sent email with all my pools from our game. Take a look at it. Some of the Sqs. Production didn't feel strong enough,but that is a feel to the game. Mostly it was losses in air-combat that hurt. Most of that came from me being overly aggressive. I am not sure US production neds to be modified. If it is, it should be more like a small bump.

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RE: Changing Situation - 9/11/2013 11:39:22 PM

ny59giants

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Pulling up RA 6.0x that isn't the final version, but should be correct for American fighters for early war ('42 to early '43). I would need to know what version this PBEM is to load it.

P-38E...5/42 - 5/42...24/mo (Replacements)
P-38F...8/42 - 9/42...40/mo (Production)
P-38G...10/42 - 5/43..20/mo (Prod) means 60/mo
P-38H...6/43 - 11/43..20/mo (Prod) means 80/mo
P-38J...12/43 - 5/44..20/mo (Prod) means 100/mo
P-38L...6/44 - end....30/mo (Prod) means 130/mo

This is an increase from stock.

P-40E...12/41 - 10/42...45/mo
P-40K...9/42 - 7/43 ....65/mo

F4F-4 Wildcat...3/42 - 4/43...45/mo

Either there is a mix up in the mod that has no P-38s being produced or by accident the production was turned off.

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Post #: 1440