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Worth it? - 9/21/2013 2:16:52 PM

terje439

Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
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I am on the fence here. I do enjoy good ACW games, but the graphics on this seems...cartoony, and it seems there is less control over your forces as compared to FoF. It seems this game is more abstract?
Also, there are no AARs (apart from a few very short ones), any chance anyone will create one, preferably with a lot of various screenshots and comments about what happens and why?
In one of the "AARs" Norfolk fell to the Union rather quickly, that makes me somewhat concerned that the Union superiority in numbers might be all that counts?
I have also seen that there are some bugs atm, how severe are they?

And if I say that of the matrixgames titles I have played, I enjoyed FoF, Witp/ae, WitE, PC, CoG/ee, Eagle Day to Bombing The Reich, Steel Panthers.
but did not like Commander - The Great War, GG World at War, ACW - The Blue and Grey.

Buy or Not??
Hmm, REALLY unsure here...

Any input would be appreciated.

Terje

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

Post #: 1

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 2:51:37 PM

d0mbo

Posts: 592
Joined: 8/21/2009
From: Holland
Status: offline

Hi Terje,

Looking at the screenshots, I do not really agree with your cartoonish assessment. However, as you state you didnt like ACW - B&G i doubt you will like this game, as it s a development from the earlier game.

I like AGEOD style games, so ill certainly buy this game when the first few patches are out. Judging from the forums the game can use them :)

(in reply to terje439)

Post #: 2

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 3:23:15 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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Some bugs have been found since release and a patch to address them should be coming with a week or so (just my best guess, not a definite timeframe). Not sure why you didn't like ACW - B&G? Knowing why might help determine if the things you didn't like have been improved in CW2 or not.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to d0mbo)

Post #: 3

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 4:08:39 PM

Gilmer

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Joined: 7/1/2011
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What is ACW - The Blue and the Grey? If that is Ageod's first Civil War title, you won't like this at all.

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Post #: 4

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 4:30:09 PM

Templer_12

Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

What is ACW - The Blue and the Grey? If that is Ageod's first Civil War title, you won't like this at all.

H Gilmer here is probably right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

...but did not like ... ACW - The Blue and Grey.

Buy or Not??
Hmm, REALLY unsure here...

Any input would be appreciated.

Terje

Can you describe us why you did not like it?

(in reply to Gilmer)

Post #: 5

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 5:09:23 PM

RJinVA_slith

Posts: 17
Joined: 3/10/2012
Status: offline

Hi terje439,

I have Forge of Freedom too, and it is an excellent game. But it is a very different game from the AGEOD game, and the two games deliver very different gaming experiences.

Forge of Freedom is one of the few (only?) Civil War games that gives you a tactical, hex-based combat system coupled to a grand strategy game. It uses a two-layer mapping system (a strategic map and unique tactical combat maps), and the tactical combat experience is very enjoyable. The structure of the game is centered on this tactical combat, and you even select the rifles used, and other armaments, etc.

AGEOD's games don't employ tactical combat at this level - instead, it's all a form of 'instant' combat handled by the games combat resolution algorithms. This alone makes it very different experience from Forge of Freedom. AGEOD's game design uses an "all-in-one" map to give the player the sense of maneuvering they need (rather than the two level mapping system in Forge of Freedom). AGEOD's map also is the closest to a 'road map' in the period. (For example, forts are located where they are supposed to be geographically in the AGEOD maps, whereas forts are abstracted into strategic provinces by Forge of Freedom.)

I play them both with enjoyment. They both have a great deal of respect for history and historic details. They both are very serious games and they both show great ingenuity in design. I am constantly astonished at how different they are in game play! When I want tactical hex-based combat, Forge of Freedom delivers. When I want a broader, operational level experience, AGEOD is my choice.

If you disliked the first AGEOD Civil War game, you may not like CWII any better. On the other hand, if you can develop a taste for the AGEOD approach to wargaming, you are in for a real treat with CWII (not to mention the fun you then can have with several other AGEOD titles). So it's really up to you.

Hope this helps.

RJinVA

(in reply to terje439)

Post #: 6

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 7:01:55 PM

terje439

Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

Can you describe us why you did not like it?

I am not sure, I think it was the graphics that put me off. I really did not enjoy it, nor did I feel that I had the necessary control over everything that I wanted, but it might just be that I got it the same time I got FoF and never really gave it enough cred. I am not sure tbh... But if it is a remake of the Blue and Grey....ok, that is enough of an answer for me

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 7

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 7:02:24 PM

terje439

Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJinVA

Hi terje439,

I have Forge of Freedom too, and it is an excellent game. But it is a very different game from the AGEOD game, and the two games deliver very different gaming experiences.

Forge of Freedom is one of the few (only?) Civil War games that gives you a tactical, hex-based combat system coupled to a grand strategy game. It uses a two-layer mapping system (a strategic map and unique tactical combat maps), and the tactical combat experience is very enjoyable. The structure of the game is centered on this tactical combat, and you even select the rifles used, and other armaments, etc.

AGEOD's games don't employ tactical combat at this level - instead, it's all a form of 'instant' combat handled by the games combat resolution algorithms. This alone makes it very different experience from Forge of Freedom. AGEOD's game design uses an "all-in-one" map to give the player the sense of maneuvering they need (rather than the two level mapping system in Forge of Freedom). AGEOD's map also is the closest to a 'road map' in the period. (For example, forts are located where they are supposed to be geographically in the AGEOD maps, whereas forts are abstracted into strategic provinces by Forge of Freedom.)

I play them both with enjoyment. They both have a great deal of respect for history and historic details. They both are very serious games and they both show great ingenuity in design. I am constantly astonished at how different they are in game play! When I want tactical hex-based combat, Forge of Freedom delivers. When I want a broader, operational level experience, AGEOD is my choice.

If you disliked the first AGEOD Civil War game, you may not like CWII any better. On the other hand, if you can develop a taste for the AGEOD approach to wargaming, you are in for a real treat with CWII (not to mention the fun you then can have with several other AGEOD titles). So it's really up to you.

Hope this helps.

RJinVA

Helps a lot. Thanks

Not for me unfortunately.

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to RJinVA_slith)

Post #: 8

RE: Worth it? - 9/21/2013 8:16:05 PM

Rosseau

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You might want to check out Ageod's underrated Rev Under Siege. The Drang Nach Osten (sp?) scenario alone is worth the price. An incredible variety of WWI units, while playing several European countries vs. the Reds - or visa versa. Barbarossa, but on a larger, much more fluid scale. Artwork and UI are beautiful compared to the "minimized" new UI in CWII. And if you still have 1/2 the patience to play a game like Forge of Freedom, RUS will be a breeze.

I will get CWII once the bugs and confusion Mr. Burns has experienced gets straightened out.

(in reply to terje439)

Post #: 9

RE: Worth it? - 9/22/2013 1:49:47 PM

Blind Sniper

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From: Turin, Italy
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quote:

but did not like Commander - The Great War, GG World at War, ACW - The Blue and Grey.

This game is like the old one with a better graphic (I prefer the old map but of course it's me) and some improvements on combat and few other things I guess.
In fact the game mechanics are the same.

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Post #: 10

RE: Worth it? - 9/26/2013 10:50:02 PM

maxstrike

Posts: 40
Joined: 1/20/2005
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quote:

This game is like the old one with a better graphic (I prefer the old map but of course it's me) and some improvements on combat and few other things I guess.
In fact the game mechanics are the same.

The old map was awesome.

(in reply to Blind Sniper)

Post #: 11

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 2:09:37 AM

Stryder

Posts: 188
Joined: 10/13/2003
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I am on the fence on this too... what does it mean on the game description when it say the Complexity: Intermediate, Advanced, Expert? Which is it? --how much micromanagement is there? How long does a typical turn last?

Thanks

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Post #: 12

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 3:13:13 AM

pkpowers

Posts: 412
Joined: 12/12/2000
From: midland,TX
Status: offline

no need to be on the fence ; it is worth the price. The map is very nice , much better than the first one. building units is easier, as is making decisions in different areas. The battle results are much better also

(in reply to Stryder)

Post #: 13

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 8:14:36 AM

Ace1_slith

Posts: 340
Joined: 9/24/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jfarber

I am on the fence on this too... what does it mean on the game description when it say the Complexity: Intermediate, Advanced, Expert? Which is it? --how much micromanagement is there? How long does a typical turn last?

Thanks

We all have different levels of desirable management. Someone will just want to move around armies on the map, and someone would want to specify what types of rifles will each regiment carry (nothing like that here), so I do not know what to answer. What is the ideal management setting to you?
Have you played any AGEOD titles before?

(in reply to Stryder)

Post #: 14

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 9:22:31 AM

Qwixt

Posts: 902
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

quote:

but did not like Commander - The Great War, GG World at War, ACW - The Blue and Grey.

This game is like the old one with a better graphic (I prefer the old map but of course it's me) and some improvements on combat and few other things I guess.
In fact the game mechanics are the same.

That's what has me on the fence. I have not seen a list of improvements over the first. Plus, I am waiting to see how they plan to handle expansions and such things.

(in reply to Blind Sniper)

Post #: 15

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 11:31:26 AM

elmo3

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Well three improvements off the top of my head are: much larger map with Sibley's New Mexico campaign scenario, the Battle Planner for more tactical control, and Regional Decision Cards that let you trigger events. Others can add more that I'm not thinking of right now due to not having enough coffee yet this morning.

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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to Qwixt)

Post #: 16

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 1:32:11 PM

Pocus

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I'm biased, being the developer so I'll try to stay with facts:

- all structures can be seen, including production structures (before they were abstracted), i.e click on Richmond and see the city icon, harbor, depot, Gorgas steel mill, etc. Beside the cosmetic aspect, this give you infos.

- you can drag&drop units on map when you recruit them. We also solved the 'captured equipment can't be repaired' problem

- more historical options and events, less hard-coded

- if France and Britain intervene they each have their own agenda and AI.

- game is faster overall because the interface is faster and eats less CPU cycles

- easy supply option, easy replacement option, expanded force pool option

that's a top of my head. I can't list you all the details (+tinclads and mortar boats, etc.)

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Post #: 17

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 1:53:10 PM

Templer_12

Posts: 1700
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From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

I'm biased, being the developer so I'll try to stay with facts:

- all structures can be seen, including production structures (before they were abstracted), i.e click on Richmond and see the city icon, harbor, depot, Gorgas steel mill, etc. Beside the cosmetic aspect, this give you infos.

- you can drag&drop units on map when you recruit them. We also solved the 'captured equipment can't be repaired' problem

- more historical options and events, less hard-coded

- if France and Britain intervene they each have their own agenda and AI.

- game is faster overall because the interface is faster and eats less CPU cycles

- easy supply option, easy replacement option, expanded force pool option

that's a top of my head. I can't list you all the details (+tinclads and mortar boats, etc.)

Try to list the most details you can! (Maybe to top ten, top fifteen)
Due to the nature of the topic and due to similar questions - I highly recommend you will do so.
By the way, personally I am also very curious.

(in reply to Pocus)

Post #: 18

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 4:05:43 PM

Blind Sniper

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

I am on the fence on this too... what does it mean on the game description when it say the Complexity: Intermediate, Advanced, Expert? Which is it? --how much micromanagement is there? How long does a typical turn last?

I would say Intermediate. Not so much. As always it depends, with the new game I don't know.

quote:

- easy supply option, easy replacement option, expanded force pool option

This is the feature that I really don't like at all because I want micromanagement in a strategy game, but again it's me.

< Message edited by Blind Sniper -- 9/27/2013 4:12:24 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 5:09:53 PM

Stryder

Posts: 188
Joined: 10/13/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ace1

quote:

ORIGINAL: jfarber

I am on the fence on this too... what does it mean on the game description when it say the Complexity: Intermediate, Advanced, Expert? Which is it? --how much micromanagement is there? How long does a typical turn last?

Thanks

We all have different levels of desirable management. Someone will just want to move around armies on the map, and someone would want to specify what types of rifles will each regiment carry (nothing like that here), so I do not know what to answer. What is the ideal management setting to you?
Have you played any AGEOD titles before?

quote:

provements off the top of my head are: much larger map with Sibley's New Mexico campaign scenario, the Battle Planner for more tactical control, and Regional Decision Cards that let you trigger events. Others can add more that I'm not thinking of right now due to not having enough coffee yet this morning.

My time is so limited now--work, family, etc. that I like the grand strategy aspect and combat...I just worry about lengthy turns of 30+ minutes if there is a ton of micromanagement...I want to be able to finish a game in a reasonable amount of time and in a relaxed manner...my day job is filled with incredible attention to detail and a million things to track.... I want a game that is a nice distraction and fun... I have not played AGEOD games before but I have played many war games over the last 25 years and am an avid war history buff, having been a history major before going into IT as a career

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Post #: 20

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 5:31:07 PM

Ace1_slith

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I will try to answer objectively:

The game can turn into time eater. It has that one turn more effect in it, at least for me. But I'm hooked on it, so I am not very objective.
Turn duration is all about how much you decide to put into it. You can take relaxed approach and not try to micromanage everything, just move your units and watch the game develop. Turns will go pretty fast then. You can take a hands on approach and watch inside every division which regiment is fully fit and which is not, micromanage and change division compositions every turn. The turn duration will then rise exponentially. But, you do not have to do that. The game allows you to group all your units to divisions, corps, and armies and move them as such. So, it is up to you.

Where this games really shines, is its attention to historical accuracy. Any amateur historian (me included) will be thrilled with little historical events happening every turn. For every history fan, it is great learning experience and enjoyment.

So the bottom line is, it can be time eater, but what bought me is its historical accuracy (research done here beats any other game in the genre)

(in reply to Stryder)

Post #: 21

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 5:35:36 PM

Blind Sniper

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From: Turin, Italy
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quote:

that I like the grand strategy aspect and combat...I just worry about lengthy turns of 30+ minutes if there is a ton of micromanagement...I want to be able to finish a game in a reasonable amount of time and in a relaxed manner...my day job is filled with incredible attention to detail and a million things to track.... I want a game that is a nice distraction and fun...

I think this game is for you then, no tons of micromanagement and move the troops around is easy (as interface) but you have to think before split your guys around the map (strategic choices), I guess several turns can be 30+ minutes but not all (my experience with the old title).

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Post #: 22

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 5:56:55 PM

Pocus

Posts: 1185
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ok, let me see. A dozen details .... mmmh

mortar boats, tinclads, cottonclads
ships can land bonus against siege roll
armories, steelmills and weaponshops
development level slows down movement
can redeploy units with some railpool
a leader can be promoted without him having to leave a stack
divisions cost nothing and are basically unlimited now
can press shift in any region to see the connections
warmap is new, plus has 4 filters
tooltips get colors and icons
sound played when turn ends, better display of status message
captured equipment can be refilled
garrisons pop up automatically against raiders
farmfields produce extra supply

and some others minor things...

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Post #: 23

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 6:00:47 PM

Stryder

Posts: 188
Joined: 10/13/2003
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I think I am sold...just waiting on patch release.... and then I notice that the patch is in beta...... hmmm

< Message edited by jfarber -- 9/27/2013 6:03:15 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 6:05:02 PM

Toro12

Posts: 162
Joined: 4/6/2000
From: Covington, KY, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

ok, let me see. A dozen details .... mmmh

mortar boats, tinclads, cottonclads
ships can land bonus against siege roll
armories, steelmills and weaponshops
development level slows down movement
can redeploy units with some railpool
a leader can be promoted without him having to leave a stack
divisions cost nothing and are basically unlimited now
can press shift in any region to see the connections
warmap is new, plus has 4 filters
tooltips get colors and icons
sound played when turn ends, better display of status message
captured equipment can be refilled
garrisons pop up automatically against raiders
farmfields produce extra supply

and some others minor things...

Can order afloat transporting commands to unload automatically upon arrival.

Subordinate leaders still have to be removed from a stack to promote, however.
Love the unlimited/no-cost divisions, by the way. Makes changing leaders easy.
I wondered what farmsfields did! (There's no info on them when I mouse roll-over)

(in reply to Pocus)

Post #: 25

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 6:32:39 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jfarber

I think I am sold...just waiting on patch release.... and then I notice that the patch is in beta...... hmmm

The patch has been in beta testing since before launch with bugs fixed and more things added right up until it was released today. The devs felt is was ready for a public release and undoubtedly there will be more updates as the game goes forward. I wouldn't let "beta" concern you.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to Stryder)

Post #: 26

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 6:51:44 PM

Pocus

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Joined: 9/22/2004
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yes, you should not. We hesitated to propose it directly as official in fact...

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Post #: 27

RE: Worth it? - 9/27/2013 8:05:53 PM

Templer_12

Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

AGEOD�s Civil War II - Worth it?

Well...

Three years ago I made the following statement on the AGEOD forum and my statemant is still valid today:
(Please just add or replace now AGEOD�s American Civil War with AGEOD�s Civil War II)

Which game about the American Civil War should I buy?
AGEOD�s American Civil War, Gary Grigsby's War Between The States or Forge of Freedom?
This question can be found in many forums.

Gary Grigsby's War Between The States is a really excellent strategy game.
Forge of Freedom reminds strongly of Civilization.

Both games brings great fun, but ultimately are only good or excellent strategy games in blue and gray uniforms.

See Chess.
I can buy a Chess set with the figures of Star Wars, Lord of the Ring, or even with soldiers of the American Civil War.
The look will change, but the core, the Game Engine of the game is still chess.

Which game about the American Civil War should I buy?
Which game about the American Civil War? There is only one on the market!
AGEOD�s American Civil War!
And it's damn good!

Exotic is that it made in France.

To arms in Dixie or storming the Bastille.
No matter.

I love red wine, cheese, French bread, snails and AGEOD�s American Civil War.
Not always in that order.

Excellent job AGEOD!

Vive la France!