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11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB

 
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11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 11:05:12 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		A question for the wise naval people out here:

Below you can see the changes to NC BBs from 3/44 to 11/44 upgrade (stock scen1):



Either my old eyes are playing tricks on me, or the only change of the 11/44 is a reduction of the Oerlikon single mount total from 56 to 48.

Then the next upgrade on 2/45 introduces the Oerlikon dual mounts, nearly doubling the ammount of 20mm.

So, my assumption is that the upgrade is in for historical flavor, and in game 11/44 is to be skipped. Am I correct or am I missing something important? Or am I even witnessing some weird DB error?

Thanks in advance!

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 11:10:48 AM   
wallentin

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		Max speed incrased by 1.
Maybe the less weight and the rounding method cause

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 11:25:58 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		All of the upgrades are historical.

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 11:32:50 AM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 937
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		I think his current max speed is reduced due to the 2 engine damage

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 11:37:09 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Correct, max speed on the Washington is down 1kt because of engine damage.

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 12:16:19 PM   
wallentin

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		I know. That was a joke but if i had to explain than was a bad one.

Modifications
North Carolina:
1942-4: 40x1 20mm Oerlikon AA guns added.
1942-6: Total of 28x1 0.50 machine guns.
1942-9: Quad 1.1" guns replaced with 10x4 40mm Bofors AA guns. 0.50 machine guns landed. Six more 20mm guns added. CXAM1 replaced with SG surface search radar and a fourth Mark 4 set.
1943-3: Total of 14x4 40mm guns.
1943-11: Total of 15x4 40mm guns.
1944-3: Total of 53 20mm guns. Mark 3 radar removed and replaced with second SG set, SK air search radar, 2 Mark 8 fire control radar sets, and Mark 27 range finding radar.
1945-8: Total of 8x2, 20x1 20mm guns.
Washington:
1942-4: Added 20x1 20mm guns.
1942-6: Total of 28x1 0.50 machine guns.
1942-9: 2x4 1.1" guns added. Total of 40 20mm guns. CXAM1 replaced with SG surface search radar and a fourth Mark 4 set.
1942-12: 0.50 machine guns and 5 20mm guns removed.
1943-4: Total of 64 20mm guns
1943-6: 1.1" guns replaced by 15x4 40mm Bofors guns.
1944-4: Total of 1x4, 63x1 20mm guns. Mark 3 radar removed and replaced with second SG set, SK, 2 Mark 8 sets, and Mark 27.
1945-8: 1x4, 8x2, 63x1 20mm guns. Radar upgraded with SR and SCR-720 sets.

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 12:27:10 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

All of the upgrades are historical.


Indeed, more or less.

Which makes me wonder what was the reason for the reduction of AA. Something 'trivial' as to reduce top heaviness, or already preparations for the dual mounts or additional radar?
It also does not quite match the list of modifications provided by wallentin (but IIRC the upgrades ingame are class specific so you probably had to go for the greatest common denominator?).

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 12:39:10 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		The displacement on both upgrades is the same.... so no topside weight seems to be reduced. It is a bit strange. I don't have the game open so not sure, but how long is the refit time for the 11/44 upgrade? The screen capture seems to indicate ZERO time?????

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 9/24/2013 12:41:12 PM >

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 12:45:51 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Yes, thats what I noticed as well. Was the reason why I considered the possibility of some DB issue.

OTOH it could simply be because throwing a couple of smaller guns+mounts overboard does not take much time.

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/24/2013 1:16:52 PM   
wallentin

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		I think the upgrade path is this case only represents a random point on the timeline, when u can get closer an average historically state which was calculated based on both ship continously changing armament. Or what.

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Post #: 10
RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/25/2013 2:52:09 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		She also loses the float planes which in game terms is a loss but in real life they were a bit of a liability.

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Post #: 11
RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/25/2013 5:00:36 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		No, check the right column in the upgrade. A/C capacity remains 3. It is just the upgrade window does not show the FPs currently assigned to the ship.

Independent of that, I have not seen any point to do that upgrade. The only reason left could be if someone tells me this will significantly increase the cost of the 2/45 upgrade, but I don´t think this is the case.

Thanks everybody!

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/26/2013 1:20:23 AM   
sanch

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		The USS North Carolina still has a Kingfisher, along with hooks, etc. at its berth in Wilmington, NC (as of Oct, 2010).

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/26/2013 2:02:23 AM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Independent of that, I have not seen any point to do that upgrade. The only reason left could be if someone tells me this will significantly increase the cost of the 2/45 upgrade, but I don´t think this is the case.

Thanks everybody!


I believe you cannot skip upgrades. If you don't do the 11/44 upgrade when you go in for the 2/45 one it will be added to the time / damage of that upgrade.

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Post #: 14
RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 9/26/2013 6:32:39 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		But what gets added up is the delay of the previous upgrade, and whatever damage is listed.

Check the upgrade delay/dmg on the 11/44.

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RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 10/9/2013 9:00:32 PM   
Toro12

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 4/6/2000
From: Covington, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Just as a note, this lowering of AA stats isn't restricted to the NC. Many other ships see this reduction followed by a large increase thereafter. Check out CAs and DDs.

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Post #: 16
RE: 11/44 Upgrade for North Carolina class BB - 10/10/2013 1:07:31 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cassmj

Just as a note, this lowering of AA stats isn't restricted to the NC. Many other ships see this reduction followed by a large increase thereafter. Check out CAs and DDs.

The devs have revealed in the past that the 'stats' are not used at all in the combat algorithms. The stats are strictly for the human reader and are the output some rough formula. Just for example, the combat routines take into account range. And that means that a smaller number of 40mm can be more important than a somewhat larger number of 20mm -> because the 40mm can hit attacking aircraft before weapons release. The 20mm often can't because its range is shorter. However, the larger number of 20mm yields a higher 'stat' number than the smaller number of 40mm. So the 'stat' went down, but the true (in game combat terms) AA capability of the ship went up.

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