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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 2:34:26 PM   
SapperAstro_MatrixForum

 

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Let me see...

Braveheart. My god...

Oblivion. Level 1 eh? Well, at the bottom of dungeon doom you find...an apple! Oh, you are level 20? Make that a magic suit of armour! The level scaling killed the game.

Ultima 8. Super Avatar brothers.

Ultima 9. "But what is an Avatar??!!!" Just die for the love of god!

I am sure there are plenty of others over the years, but they spring to mind first. I am usually pretty good at dodging rubbish since I take my time and wait until the hype dies down to see what people think.

(in reply to Joel Levin)
Post #: 31
RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 5:55:30 PM   
Lecivius


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Outpost on release was bad. Once they patched it to playability (and it took a few years) it was ok.

MOO 3 was sad. Just sad.

WiTE and Bombing the Reich were epic failures. I am a lot more carefull with my cash here. There are a lot of other Matrix games I own that are stellar, so take that with a boulder of salt.

Civ 5 was a pathetic rip off.

Any MMO currently on the market released in the last 10 years is a rip off.

The latest Sim game I was interested, but from experience I held off. Smart move.

I never had a problem with Ageod.

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Post #: 32
RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 7:19:06 PM   
Darkspire


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The Great Space Race

A few others since but that one has to be the worst for me.

Darkspire

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 7:47:48 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Outpost on release was bad. Once they patched it to playability (and it took a few years) it was ok.

MOO 3 was sad. Just sad.

WiTE and Bombing the Reich were epic failures. I am a lot more carefull with my cash here. There are a lot of other Matrix games I own that are stellar, so take that with a boulder of salt.

Civ 5 was a pathetic rip off.

Any MMO currently on the market released in the last 10 years is a rip off.

The latest Sim game I was interested, but from experience I held off. Smart move.

I never had a problem with Ageod.


What precisely was Civ 5 ripping off? Itself?

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 8:01:19 PM   
105mm Howitzer


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Don't know if I'm a masochist or a prostitute, I seem to like them all.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 8:04:58 PM   
Terminus


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Civ 5 is very good, in my opinion. Especially with its expansion packs.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 9:00:47 PM   
warspite1


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I buy few games - and to be honest, the majority of the time its not a case of games letting me down, but rather me letting myself down by buying in the first place.

After all its not as though, with forums, you tube and the like, we are devoid of info on a game before making the plunge. Why the hell did I buy Empire In Arms?

The one game that defo fell into the "Games that let me down" bracket is Civ 5. I was expecting an even further improved Civ 4 but felt let down by what the makers did to the game. From the aesthetic - white clouds replacing black (for undiscovered lands) to the dumbing down - removal of ships for transports, the game just felt all wrong....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/24/2013 9:01:08 PM >


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 9:09:43 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

Don't know if I'm a masochist or a prostitute.
warspite1

If you charge for renting out your body for the purposes of naughty business, you are a prostitute, if you like inflicting pain on yourself then you are a masochist. Hope that helps


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 10:35:25 PM   
Alan Sharif

 

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Agree with views on Napoleon 1813 and the Ageod titles, but I must say I really enjoy War in the East. A big let down for me was Tigers Unleashed by HPS. Tried a few times to play it, but just could not get into it at all.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 11:06:53 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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These threads are always great.

Games that one side loathe and then the counter attack fans disliking intensely the rival title.

The reality though, is I have yet to play a single digital game that is even good enough to lick the boots of the table based versions that created them.

Real role games use funny dice and are not social disasters pretending to be RPGs.
Real wargames are played on tables either with miniatures of thousands of counters.

And they all play just fine without a dithering idiot artificial intelligence.

I bought War in the East, and in a spate of inspired denial, I even bought the expansions. And now we have War in the West on the horizon. I pray I don't buy it, and likely will, why? because I'm an addict. Even though it has been revealed that the game permits absolutely shockingly unacceptable strategies that would be utterly impossible on a board game.

Has Fire in the East been done for on Vassal?

The less I say about anything using real time the better.

I love the heck out of Civilization V though, but, I will admit, no stacking at all? Come on we just needed to get rid of kill stacks, not stacking entirely... The recent Brave New World expansion though really ramped up the game.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 11:21:28 PM   
E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Was also let down by Eagle Day Bombing the Reich


just curious - what was bad about Eagle Day to the Bombing of the Reich - i dont have this one but i liked the look and scope of it and it has a good number of scenarios too it appeared.


For one thing, it would never run right on my machine. Other than uncontrollable high-speed scrolling, the original games it combined, still run better here. Of course as in any game, you have the complaints of the rivet counters.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/24/2013 11:42:48 PM   
Terminus


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Well, it's not exactly fair to say that the game let you down because it wouldn't run on your machine. Your responsibility to make sure it can run on your box before you buy it.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 1:39:44 AM   
madflava13


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quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Was also let down by Eagle Day Bombing the Reich


just curious - what was bad about Eagle Day to the Bombing of the Reich - i dont have this one but i liked the look and scope of it and it has a good number of scenarios too it appeared.


For one thing, it would never run right on my machine. Other than uncontrollable high-speed scrolling, the original games it combined, still run better here. Of course as in any game, you have the complaints of the rivet counters.



You know you can adjust the scroll speed, right?

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:12:13 AM   
Perturabo


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Played Baldur's Gate after playing Fallout and Baldur's Gate 2 after playing Planescape: Torment. 80s called, they want their games back.

Fallout Tactics. Intended as a party-based Fallout, ended up as a skirmish wargame that didn't even aim for the standards of X-Com1/2 and Jagged Alliance 2.
One of the few skirmish wargames without destructible terrain, if not the only.
Additionally managed to completely mangle the Fallout setting in the game.

Neverwinter Nights.

X-Com 3 - stupid AI, low weapon damage, unfinished citiscape, no night and day on battlescape, etc.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:19:27 AM   
Terminus


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The only thing worse than Neverwinter Nights was Neverwinter Nights 2.

However, I disagree that Baldur's Gate 2 was worse than Planescape Torment. Vehemently.

(and you could never have made BG or BG 2 in the 80s, which BTW called and would like their lame joke back)

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 3:23:58 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

However, I disagree that Baldur's Gate 2 was worse than Planescape Torment. Vehemently.

No prominent stat-checks in dialogues, next to no descriptions outside items and spells, much less stuff to do in dialogues, etc.
Oh, and the introduction of the choose 1 "correct" option to continue dialogue with false disagreeing options that are ignored, trademark Bioware dialogue writing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

(and you could never have made BG or BG 2 in the 80s,

I mentioned 80s, because playing it requires pretending that many things didn't happen since the mid-80s, like for example:
Wasteland, Ultima V, Buck Rogers, Ultima VII, Darklands, Realms of Arkania and Fallout.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 9/25/2013 3:24:50 AM >


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 11:37:01 AM   
Terminus


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There's nothing you can say to convince me of your opinion. It's a subjective thing.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 1:20:23 PM   
wodin


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Scott and myslef are really trying to improve Tigers Unleashed..we still have a way to go but one day it will be there.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan Sharif

Agree with views on Napoleon 1813 and the Ageod titles, but I must say I really enjoy War in the East. A big let down for me was Tigers Unleashed by HPS. Tried a few times to play it, but just could not get into it at all.



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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 1:24:40 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer



And they all play just fine without a dithering idiot artificial intelligence.





Mate every post you make you slag off the AI..please lots here only play AI and are happy to do so..we all know you don't like it and find them no challenge, but personally I do and if games stopped coming with an AI I would stop buying them. However I don't resent the fact games have ways to play multiplayer..honestly mate you know I like you but could you give the "AI is useless" comments a rest? It sort of belittles us and what we like about games and feels like we must be stupid to even warrant wanting to play against an AI.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:22:50 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer



And they all play just fine without a dithering idiot artificial intelligence.





Mate every post you make you slag off the AI..please lots here only play AI and are happy to do so..we all know you don't like it and find them no challenge, but personally I do and if games stopped coming with an AI I would stop buying them. However I don't resent the fact games have ways to play multiplayer..honestly mate you know I like you but could you give the "AI is useless" comments a rest? It sort of belittles us and what we like about games and feels like we must be stupid to even warrant wanting to play against an AI.


You actually want me to stop slagging the state of artificial intelligence, as it calls into question your own intelligence? Did I read that correct?

Hell I don't even need to be insulting there, you just walked all over it yourself.

If they stopped making pointless stupid and utterly valueless AIs, I suspect nothing bad would happen at all. You'd have the same choice you have today, play them, or not play them, but either way, the companies would not fail any more than the board gaming industry which hasn't by the way.

I have no plans to discontinue making it plain designing AIs is a waste of time, as it isn't likely to stop. We all know plenty of things are self evident, but it seems humanity is not interested in caring. It's why drug dealers can continue to sell drugs, and why people yet still smoke cigarettes. We all know using drugs and smoking cigarettes is the choice of idiots, but, they still do it. And people still make money off of the fact they refuse to quit. It doesn't mean it isn't dumb.

You find yourself hard pressed to beat the AI, and that's no different than saying I have a hard time understanding cars. I'm the last person you want taking care of your car. If I had to take a person somewhere in an emergency, driving your car will be more dangerous than walking very fast :)

It's a shame you feel 'inadequate' vs the AI. I don't myself. I find playing a game for significant spans of time, only to be confronted by the eventual revelation that I was playing a worthless adversary to be a great bloody waste of time. The AI is no challenge. That's a cold hard fact. It's a brutally true fact. It's rock solid. There are no games on the market where the AI is better than me, not even close to me.

I have played precisely 3 long campaigns in Steel Panthers. A game I love to death. But when you can cherry pick a batch of 88s a batch of 155mm arty and then place a sprinkling of tanks to go and mop up stranglers, you realize, even the games we call great, are not great due to the AI. I was actually parking the infantry and the halftracks in the rear out of the way and imagined they were all having barbeques while listening to the battle on radios like it was a sporting event.

The Mega campaigns are great because the player doesn't get to cherry pick their forces. The scenarios are great, because the player is given specific forces and a specific mission and they must figure it out with what is at hand.

But the moment you play a game the second time, all the surprises are gone. No surprises and the AI just blindly walks into the trap. It isn't able to think.

Now on the other hand, playing Battle Academy player vs player, you can never know what silly notion the other person has come up with. And some of the best ploys, are actually just that, silly notions that will confound the other player. You can intentionally skip turn one, and totally throw off an experienced player. They will just conclude you made the most logical superior choices. So when you don't, they are off by a full turn, and none of your forces will be where they logically would be.

With board games, all is visible, so all must be utterly on the mark. The above notion won't work in a board game environment. But with a board game you also must learn the game, not the interface but the actual game.

You know what would happen if Slitherine Group marketed games sans AI? Well for one thing, all the AI dependent players would have a choice, play digital board games, or not. The board game industry might panic a bit, because digital board games would likely impact the sale of actual board games. If I had a choice of playing World in Flames on a table, a BIG table, or playing a digital version, bereft of AI, but missing the need of the BIG table, I'm picking the digital version. I'd gladly buy it for the equal in price of the board game, which I think these days runs quite the hefty price tag.

I own a set of ASL. It rarely gets played sadly. I know I can play it via VASL, but the program sadly is something of a dog. Always being tweaked, always being fiddled with. I wish it was a single installer, did all the set up, and then just mimicked the board game and nothing else. No AI whatsoever. Alas, the digital rights are not available. They even have issues about emanuals. I'd gladly drop several hundred for the program. Yes several HUNDRED bucks. Heck my actual collection is worth about 5 THOUSAND bucks, so spending 500 for a complete digital set would seem cheap.

Yeah I know, good luck getting joe nobody to buy a program for several hundred bucks. But wait, people routinely do. Windows, several office like programs, Adobe, Autocad, it's not really that much of a stretch to contemplate software worth a lot of money. But businesses usually write off those expenses too. The average gamer normally expects to spend 50ish bucks, play something to death in a month and then discard it. I don't think wargamers are much different. They aren't really interested in being social and I think that is the problem here.

Me, I am a social gamer, a REAL social gamer, I actually expect to play the games against people. If a person is not interested in playing a two player game against another human being, I really can't support that. Sorry.

If after all this you feel put upon Jason, it is not my mission. I have seen you flutter about though never ever happy with any of the games you try. I am not sure what you are looking for.
Me, I am really only looking for 1980. Well there abouts. It was the time before games meant something on a machine.

To me hard core gamer, is someone that makes the effort to play a game for real.
That means if you have a choice of World of Warcraft or Dungeons and Dragons for role playing, you pick D&D. You don't pick Steel Panthers over ASL. You are not waiting to play Strategic Command 3, you are already playing A3R regularly.
And you don't hide behind a lifestyle that doesn't give you the time. Heck you MAKE the time if it actually matters. You don't claim you live in the middle of nowhere, heck you picked where you live.

I always win when I play Civilization V in a fair game of Prince vs Prince mode AIs. I am lucky to win at all against a local friend of mine though. That just says to me, I'm a fairly bland human opponent, that can walk all over the AI none the less. Conclusion, if the AIs is beating you, well, I'd likely trash you in a game :)


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:27:22 PM   
Terminus


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Wow, aren't you special?

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:30:51 PM   
Terminus


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Wodin, no point in asking him to change his mind. His opinion shouldn't matter to you anyway.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:34:57 PM   
wodin


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I get on with DS..just want him to realise that in around about way he is belittling what others enjoy. Mentioning it once or twice fair enough..but nearly every post it's mentioned.

< Message edited by wodin -- 9/25/2013 2:35:43 PM >


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:42:31 PM   
vonRocko

 

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Terminus, He's a she. I wonder why she don't stick to boardgames.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:54:22 PM   
SapperAstro_MatrixForum

 

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Who cares what he says? Just ignore his rubbish and, eventually, it will become boring for him to continually repeat during every ad break.

Works for me.


Just to get the argument back on track, I actually preferred Neverwinter nights 2 to the original NWN.




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RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 2:57:26 PM   
berto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

And they all play just fine without a dithering idiot artificial intelligence.


Mate every post you make you slag off the AI..please lots here only play AI and are happy to do so..we all know you don't like it and find them no challenge, but personally I do and if games stopped coming with an AI I would stop buying them. However I don't resent the fact games have ways to play multiplayer..honestly mate you know I like you but could you give the "AI is useless" comments a rest? It sort of belittles us and what we like about games and feels like we must be stupid to even warrant wanting to play against an AI.

Apart from questions of competitiveness, I prefer AI play, dislike PBEM play, because:

  • I don't like the episodic nature of PBEM. When I play wargames, I want a non-stop, totally immersive weekend (usually) experience. Just like I don't watch series TV (or any TV at all, in fact), much preferring instead to watch full-length feature movies, even better movie marathons; just like I don't listen to songs, preferring instead to enjoy full-length symphonies or operas; I much prefer the unbroken, beginning-to-end nature of AI computer game play to the stop-and-go nature of PBEM.
  • When I play, I don't want to feel beholden to the other player, don't want to fret or apologize if I'm dilatory in my moves. (Neither do I want to fret if my opponent is slow or delayed.) I've got too many life obligations. I don't need still another.
  • I can't stand cheaters. (Not saying that all or even many PBEMers cheat. I just don't want to take the chance.) Or drop-outs, them or me.
  • I'm a loner. Social gaming? Doesn't do anything for me.
  • I see these games more as simulations, or puzzles to be solved, than as competitions. I don't care about conventional notions of winning or losing. I abide by many house and personal game play rules. Plausibility is everything. Few if any other gamers would share my unusual, quirky game play style.

    That's just so much blah blah to the win at all cost, exploit every gamey tactic, winning is not everything it's the only thing, macho, diehard PBEMer. In their narrow-mindedness, they know best. For them, and for all of us.

    It's useless to argue with them. (So why did I just bother? )

    < Message edited by berto -- 9/25/2013 2:59:08 PM >


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    RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 3:04:15 PM   
    wodin


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    berto same reasons I play the AI..yes we all know the limitations..but I would be ashamed to tell you how often I've lost to AI's..hough I know it isn't the same as a real person, but I still get immense enjoyment out of it and can play when I want for aslong as I want and not feel I HAVE to play the game TODAY cos soemone wants their turn.

    Saying this I have started up a Red Victory PBEM. The series was ruined really for me once I started playing it PBEM as the AI didn't feel right anymore..but I also started to resent having to play and I never in one turn got into the scenario or immersed as I wasn't playing it long enough. SO now I will only play it PBEM and after a few years have gone back to try again. I still hate only getting one turn to do then have to wait for the next..just not enough time to really enjoy it. SO now after my Squad battles experience I will never play a game I enjoy multiplayer, what I don't know doesn't bother me so I'm very happy in my ignorant bliss and be able to play it when ever I want to for aslong as I want.

    < Message edited by wodin -- 9/25/2013 3:05:53 PM >


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    RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 3:30:29 PM   
    Terminus


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vonRocko

    Terminus, He's a she. I wonder why she don't stick to boardgames.


    Gender is irrelevant. Rude is rude.

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    RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 4:05:46 PM   
    Alan Sharif

     

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    Another game that I did not enjoy at all, God's and Generals. The idea was great, but the execution appalling. I find it hard to believe, but you can find the odd positive review of this game on line. Must have played a different game to me.

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    RE: Games that let you down - 9/25/2013 4:09:27 PM   
    vonRocko

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vonRocko

    Terminus, He's a she. I wonder why she don't stick to boardgames.


    Gender is irrelevant. Rude is rude.


    I just wanted to get the pronouns correct.

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