Convergence Zone ring question

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Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 4:36:39 PM

ExMachina

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What is the "nick" in CZ ring in the submarine tutorials? It's location doesn't seems to correspond to my sub's orientation (eg, baffles)

Also, should CV rings disappear in shallow water and/or when sub dives significantly below the thermal layer?

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 6:29:05 PM

Dimitris

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The "V" is a visual glitch.

AFAIK CZs also function below the layer, do they not?

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 6:47:25 PM

ExMachina

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Maybe I'm not clear on what the rings represent--self noise/listening I think, but at what depth? The surface?

fas dot org has some good schematics on sonar/noise propagation (sorry, I'm too new to be allowed to post links

)

< Message edited by ExMachina -- 9/25/2013 7:15:02 PM >

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 7:40:51 PM

NefariousKoel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

AFAIK CZs also function below the layer, do they not?

Yep!

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 7:47:19 PM

ExMachina

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But they change, right? Sound propagates differently in the surface duct, at least in deep water.

Just not clear if the rings represent the actual sonar model or a "rule of thumb" estimate to help the player

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 10:29:05 PM

p3cewo@hotmail.com

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Since a CZ is basically a "waveguide" for sound, if the conditions are right for it to occur, the sound could be detected regardless of depth if the sensor was in the "waveguide"?

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 11:27:48 PM

ExMachina

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Ok, this is turning into way more of "a thing" than I wanted it to

Please look at this webpage: wwwDOTfas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm (you'll have to remove the "DOT" and replace accordingly

)

and tell me what I am missing in Figure 12 and 13. It really looks like layers (can) induce different sound refraction properties based upon the depth of the emitter/receiver.

< Message edited by ExMachina -- 9/25/2013 11:28:37 PM >

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 11:42:23 PM

NefariousKoel

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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

Ok, this is turning into way more of "a thing" than I wanted it to

Please look at this webpage: wwwDOTfas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm (you'll have to remove the "DOT" and replace accordingly )

and tell me what I am missing in Figure 12 and 13. It really looks like layers (can) induce different sound refraction properties based upon the depth of the emitter/receiver.

I'm getting a 404 after removing 'DOT'.

From what I've understood, the way the sound is "bent", and the specific path it takes, can vary somewhat depending on numerous factors. But it may be too much to attempt modelling it completely since many of the variations don't have such a huge effect.

I'm happy as long as the CZ zones have some varied distances (and thickness?) related to the most notable conditions involved. I'm pretty sure even Dangerous Waters doesn't fully model every factor involved within it's sonar model. A passable fidelity is good enough for an operational level model of this scope, IMO.

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 11:44:23 PM

ExMachina

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replace "DOT" with a "."

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RE: Convergence Zone ring question - 9/25/2013 11:47:00 PM

ExMachina

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quote:

I'm happy as long as the CZ zones have some varied distances (and thickness?) related to the most notable conditions involved. I'm pretty sure even Dangerous Waters doesn't fully model every factor involved within it's sonar model. A passable fidelity is good enough for an operational level model of this scope, IMO.

Sure sure. Me too. I just want to understand what the rings "mean". They're not behaving like "real" CZs would (I don't think) and I wanted to know if they are what the engine is actually using as part of its sonar model, or if they're just a general set of reference rings that may be off depending on circumstances.

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 10