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Command & Control - 1/11/2003 5:45:16 AM   
TigerFan

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: NE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hello everyone, I'm new here and to SPW@W! I am really enjoying the game but I do have a question or two...

Do the majority of you folks play with Command and Control, On?

I was also wondering exactly how to perform it correctly. Being new, it seems really difficult to establish an objective for all of the units before you begin playing the scenario. Should I establish objectives at/on the scenario Objective Areas? I just get the feeling that I will be constantly changing these Objective hex's eating up all my available orders and not being able to move my units anyway.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but most of everything else I understand. I am tempted to just turn it off, but if everyone else has it on, I will have problems later on when I get enough courage to actually play one of you!!!

TIA,
TigerFan
Post #: 1
- 1/11/2003 6:58:26 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I think you are trying to instigate an argument here.;)

I am a very good player [U]without[/U] C&C On. What that means to a C&C On player is that I basically suck because I haven't learned the "proper" way to play. You will find plenty of skilled players whether you prefer playing with it on or off. It is for you to decide. For me, I never got hooked on the need for the realism C&C On provides. I like the freedom of movement you get with C&C Off.

I won't suggest that you learn the game with C&C Off first (kind of a walk before you run philosophy) because I will get a heap of guys ripping me for blaspheming, but... you decide.:)

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 2
- 1/11/2003 7:23:17 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Most people, I believe, will play with C&C off. Some people will not. Most, however, are willing to compromise on that issue. There are recent topics on the issue; I will summarize by saying that some people believe it is more realistic, some people believe it is less realistic, and most people believe it is like using your lunch to map out directions for someone--it works, but there are better ways.

_____________________________



Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 3
Yep - 1/11/2003 7:25:39 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Welcome, TigerFan. I hope you enjoy yourself with the game and on this forum. (pay no nevermind to M4 Jess, though. They're still trying to adjust his medications :rolleyes: )

I agree with rbrunsman on every point. Particularly that you learn the game without C&C first. Then add it later, if you feel you need more spice (re: headaches)

I'd suggest that you make an attempt to move formations with thought given to command and control ranges, orders, etc. Then when you start running battles with C&C On, you'll already have developed some good habits.

On the other hand, You can play many, many entertaining battles without C&C. It's definitely Not a requirement. :cool:

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 4
Welcome, TigerFan... - 1/11/2003 8:27:40 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		...if the search feature is working, you will find many informative posts on the use of C&C, so I recommend looking through the forum archives. Personally, I do not use it, but, after becoming familiar with the game mechanics, it would be worthwhile for you to try it. If you play with all the realism settings "on" (limited intel & ammo/weapons breakdowns), etc. , it should provide you with a pretty good challenge, depending on your prior game experience. The most important thing to remember is--there are no stupid questions. If you need help in any facet of the game, these guys will give you the "skinny". I've been here for three years and have been treated kindly from my first post--you won't find any "newbie" razzing in the SPWaW forum. So, any question you have about SPWaW, we'll try to find an answer for you.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 5
- 1/11/2003 8:42:18 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Unfortunately (IMO) C/C players are in the minority.

I don't think rbrunsman (or anyone else) is a poor player because the don't play "my way".

Like many others, I went kicking and screaming into C/C since I was comfortable with C/C off. But at that time, I was on the old Leadeaters ladder and the people I wanted to play against were C/C turned on. The choice was clear, either take the plunge and or miss out playing against certain players.

After a few games of C/C, became a convert.

The way I set objectives (there are others):

First, I set a global objective for every unit I have. This is to ensure that if I overlook something, at least every unit will have some sort of objective. This global objective is a single place on the map which seems to be the most advantageous. Perhaps there are 2-3 clumps of v-hexes in a row. So I set the objective so my units will pass as many v-hexes as possible enroute to their objective.

Second, I set individual formation objectives for different purposes. Again, I usually set the objective behind the place I want to unit to move to.

Third, if the battle is a river-crossing, beach assault, or airborne operation, I spend a good deal of time thinking about how I want a unit to move once the battle begins. In these types of battles, this is tricky and requires thought and planning.

Fourth, I deploy all units close to their O unit and make sure they are in the proper stance (advance/defend).

It would take 4 pages or more to discuss C/C in detail but that is an overview of my approach.

To me, SPWAW is really two games: One is with C/C and the other without. Very different.

I hope you will not close your mind to either game. Choose which one or both, and have some fun.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 6
- 1/11/2003 9:02:24 AM   
TigerFan

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: NE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Wow, thanks for the quick responses and making me feel welcome everyone!

It wasn't my intention to stir up a C&C battle here. Honest...

I really appreciate all of your views and I think I will begin with C&C off for now. There are plenty of other things for me to worry about being brand new to the game. Later on, as suggested, I can turn it on. Maybe then I will be able to concentrate on just that as a new feature to learn.

Thanks again for all of your help!!!

TigerFan

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 7
- 1/13/2003 8:18:02 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I've given it more thought and I think you should definitely start with C&C off. The reason is that you need to learn what you [U]can[/U] do and sometimes C&C On won't let you do something because you don't have the Command points to get it done. It seems to me that you need to know everything that you [U]should[/U] be able to do before you get confused about the limitation placed on you by C&C On factors.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 8
Re: Command & Control - 1/13/2003 10:11:04 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by TigerFan
[B]Hello everyone, I'm new here and to SPW@W! I am really enjoying the game but I do have a question or two...

Do the majority of you folks play with Command and Control, On?

I was also wondering exactly how to perform it correctly. Being new, it seems really difficult to establish an objective for all of the units before you begin playing the scenario. Should I establish objectives at/on the scenario Objective Areas? I just get the feeling that I will be constantly changing these Objective hex's eating up all my available orders and not being able to move my units anyway.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but most of everything else I understand. I am tempted to just turn it off, but if everyone else has it on, I will have problems later on when I get enough courage to actually play one of you!!!

TIA,
TigerFan [/B][/QUOTE]

I play with it on unless I am doing some testing and just want the troops to go somewhere.

To me playing with C&C off is like playing against the ai with all your prefs up at 250 and all the ai prefs down at 30. You get some idea of what the game is, but you miss the very best of what it can be.

Normally when I deploy I will use the set objective for all button at some point in the rear of the enemy side. If I have a force that works in small detachments, I then set platoon objectives for the platoons that will be going their own way. I never expose the A0 to enemy fire so that it never has to worry about losing orders.

I buy companies where possible so that I have mutiple chances of gaining orders. If there seems to be a location that will be difficult to approach, I go ahead and buy some recon units, their ability to move freely is figured into their cost, if playing with C&C off you are then paying for capability that every unit has.

If playing with C&C on scares you, you can try what I did to learn the game. I played a long campaign, but instead of using my entire force, for the first couple of battles I played just one platoon on my side, setting all the others for computer control.
By doing this I got a feel for what the ai did with units and I was able to learn how to set objectives and play without knowing what the other units on my side were going to do. You no longer run straight into the enemy side if you don't know if the units on either side of you are going to move that turn. By just acting as a platoon commander in a larger force, you get a different feel from playing as an allknowing allseeing battalion commander.

As you play further on, you can add more units to player control until you finally control them all.
thanks, John.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 9
- 1/17/2003 2:20:57 AM   
Paska Taikuri

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/11/2002
From: Turku, Finland
Status: offline 		The first real gaming I did with C&C on was that Balkan Crisis campaign, which I found very fun to play. Playing with C&C on forces you to plan your attack or defense, and also it gives all those nice recon units something to do.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 10
No command, no control - 1/17/2003 3:07:40 AM   
browning

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 1/17/2003
Status: offline 		Hi,

I am new to the forum and pretty new to the game, so perhaps it is my fault but...

After playing a couple of times without C&C, I wanted to try it out. I took my German regiment to Poland'39, and saw all leaders receive just 3 orders at the beginning. Well. Then a leader run out of orders, on the next turn he had just one. This happened with all the commanders irrespectively of their rank etc... I had an impression from the manual that the number of commands received each turn shoul depend on a couple of factors, and that Germany should be rather blessed with them...

Or is my version buggy?

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 11
- 1/17/2003 4:39:49 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Actually, trying C/C on in a scenario is a very "safe" way to do it. If things turn sour, merely turn it back off until things straighten out or for the rest of the battle.

This is versus the AI. Won't work in other forms of play.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 12
Re: No command, no control - 1/17/2003 6:08:56 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by browning
[B]Hi,

I am new to the forum and pretty new to the game, so perhaps it is my fault but...

After playing a couple of times without C&C, I wanted to try it out. I took my German regiment to Poland'39, and saw all leaders receive just 3 orders at the beginning. Well. Then a leader run out of orders, on the next turn he had just one. This happened with all the commanders irrespectively of their rank etc... I had an impression from the manual that the number of commands received each turn shoul depend on a couple of factors, and that Germany should be rather blessed with them...

Or is my version buggy? [/B][/QUOTE]

It is two different factors, each type of leader: platoon 0, company 0, and A0 are limited in the amount of orders they can carry forward, and they are also affected by experiance, the higher the experiance the better they do. In a battle I just did, Germans in 43 were able to carry forward 5 with their company commanders, 6 with the A0 and just 3 with platoon commanders. With a late campaign A0 after 30 or so battles, expect more.

With C&C on, you absolutely must have company command sections to help take the load off the A0, not to mention that company 0 units also get recon ability for free.
thanks, John.

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 13
- 1/17/2003 6:29:39 AM   
browning

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 1/17/2003
Status: offline 		That's it, thank you very much.

In the next game, I'll buy a little more Artillery Observers, since this is what consumed the orders of my A0...

(in reply to TigerFan)
Post #: 14
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