Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940

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Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 4:40:39 PM

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The AAR for Poland is finished and I am moving German forces west towards the Belgian border. I would like to have all my forces in place by the Mar/Apr 1940 turn or sooner.

This part is for posters who are just starting to read the the AAR's. They are not real easy to do, moving pictures from my computer into the forums keeping them in some semblence of order, trying to explain rules and such to people who either never played the board game or never heard of World in Flames.

I am retired and have the time to do this, but Orm and composser are not so they have to allocate time between doing the AAR's, work and family, not easy and they should be commended for their effort to bring this game to the forefront of the Matrix forums. They are not looking for any praise they feel just like I do, what can we do to bring this wonderful game to the posters who have suffered so long waiting for it.

Now the AI. When I applied for the beta testing I was accepted by Steve to join the beta testing team, to Steves credit he let me join, why do I say that, well go back and read some posts by me in late 2009 and early 2010, crussdaddy

is a nice guy compared to me then. Steve put that behind him and moved on for the sake of the game.

When I joined and all the secrets of MWIF were opened to me I was stunned by the first secret, no AI in the initial offering, I told Steve I cant do this beta I believe in an AI 100%
Steve promised an AI within 9 months after the initial release, that helped to ease the pain of no AI.

As I learned about MWIF I came to realize that this game could be played in a solitaire mode [I was the last person to ever believe that]

Everybody who has ever played computer war games wants to jump right in play the AI, play Pbem, play net play, whatever. Learn by rote. Rules what rules, I want to play now.

I have some not so good news for you, not this game. The program will not let you make a mistake but you still have to know how the game works. As of yet I have never read a rule, is that cool no, it's called stupidity. Actually playing solitaire for a couple of weeks will get you prepared to take on good players who cut their teeth on the board game[they know all the rules]

The picture below is one of those rules, Poland has been conquered and I am moving German forces west towards the Belgian border. It is the first phase of the Nov/Dec 1939 turn. The program is in the Rail Movement impulse, in the interface section it is telling me I can move any three of my units west to any German city for relocation, it is a very fast way to move units a great distance.

EG: You can see on the map the German infantry corp 7-4 unit in the port city of Stettin on the Baltic Sea. In one rail move this unit can rail to the German city of Cologne which has the Bf 109 in it.

The distance to Cologne from Stettin in hexes is [8] 720 km's. The unit could cover this in 2 separate moves without railing, provided it was not raining, if it rained the whole time it was moving, it would take 4 separate moves [2 maxium hexes in rain] [long time game wise] A unit to use the German rail system must be in a city with connections by rail to another city that is why the green circle is over the 7/4 unit [means it is eligible to rail]

There is a HQ unit 1 hex west of Warsaw, the city of Lodz, the unit is von Runstedt that unit has a green circle over it so it can use the rail line to any German city with rail connections. If it went to Colonge it would have traveled by rail 12 hexes in one move 1,080 km's. Now a rule that I was unaware of, von Bock HQ's a 7[3]3 unit is located 1 hex northwest of Dresden, I saw the green circle over the unit and got confused because the unit is not in a city but is on a rail line.

What do I do now, I know I will e-mail my good buddy who keeps me straight Cad908.
He informed me that a HQ's unit does not have to be in a city it just has to be on a rail line, it is it's own station. Thank you Cad908. There is a morale to that part of the post[read the rules]

Bo

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/25/2013 6:22:27 PM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 5:13:35 PM

Extraneous

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I agree with you Bo showing how to do things and explaining the rules is difficult.

You are experiencing just what I did when I suggested WiF strategies but without the flames from others.

I am waiting until the AAR's are finished to post my opinion of their strategies .

_____________________________

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 5:44:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

I agree with you Bo showing how to do things and explaining the rules is difficult.

You are experiencing just what I did when I suggested WiF strategies but without the flames from others.

I am waiting until the AAR's are finished to post my opinion of their strategies .

Thank you Extraneous for your comment and your critiques comming

no really I need strategies

(in reply to Extraneous)

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 6:22:25 PM

michaelbaldur

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one strategy is not to dow them at the same time ...

take Netherlands first. you can do that in 1 impulse..

then the next impulse dow Belgium. then you will have more hexes for an attack on Belgium, which is the toughest of them

_____________________________

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I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 6:42:42 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Quickly moving to the top of my list of answers to questions is: Read The Fine Manual (RTFM)

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 6:55:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Quickly moving to the top of my list of answers to questions is: Read The Fine Manual (RTFM)

Was a word edited there somwhere,

if you had any bravado you would have said it. I find your post mean, vicious, and condencending, for that, this is the loaner you get, not the other one

cruss gets the big one.

Besides I thought you were on a plane by now rushing to Philly for one of Pat's cheese steaks

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/25/2013 7:59:06 PM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 7:05:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

one strategy is not to dow them at the same time ...

take Netherlands first. you can do that in 1 impulse..

then the next impulse dow Belgium. then you will have more hexes for an attack on Belgium, which is the toughest of them

Thank you never tried it that way I will do so in the new AAR.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/25/2013 7:08:18 PM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 7:17:14 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Quickly moving to the top of my list of answers to questions is: Read The Fine Manual (RTFM)

Why? I only start grumbling if I get into trouble. Only than I get around to go find it in the manuals

. It has a downside, by the way, not reading the manual, since there appear all kinds of shortcuts where I take a little longer moving the beast around.

But I'm a little biased. Personally, I think a player who knows the rules of the board game should go to the interactive tutorials to learn the game mechanism. Knowing the rules, it's a good way to find out which button does what in MWIF.

_____________________________

Peter

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 7:42:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Quickly moving to the top of my list of answers to questions is: Read The Fine Manual (RTFM)

Why? I only start grumbling if I get into trouble. Only than I get around to go find it in the manuals . It has a downside, by the way, not reading the manual, since there appear all kinds of shortcuts where I take a little longer moving the beast around.

But I'm a little biased. Personally, I think a player who knows the rules of the board game should go to the interactive tutorials to learn the game mechanism. Knowing the rules, it's a good way to find out which button does what in MWIF.

Wow are you challenging Steve, that is a nono here or is it you are jealous that Steve will be enjoying one of those delicious Philly cheese steaks Friday. You wish there was a Pat's steak house in Hoorn dont you?

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/25/2013 8:07:56 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Quickly moving to the top of my list of answers to questions is: Read The Fine Manual (RTFM)

Why? I only start grumbling if I get into trouble. Only than I get around to go find it in the manuals . It has a downside, by the way, not reading the manual, since there appear all kinds of shortcuts where I take a little longer moving the beast around.

But I'm a little biased. Personally, I think a player who knows the rules of the board game should go to the interactive tutorials to learn the game mechanism. Knowing the rules, it's a good way to find out which button does what in MWIF.

Wow are you challenging Steve, that is a nono here or is it you are jealous that Steve will be enjoying one of those delicious Philly cheese steaks Friday. You wish there was a Pat's steak house in Hoorn dont you?

Cheese steak, it sounds different, but I think I would like it. A Dutchman likes cheese. Never heard of Pat's Steak House, so we don't know what I'm missing. However, I've also a very good thing coming up this weekend. How about a table in the "Ochsenbraterei" at the Oktoberfest in Munich. It comes with 2 Mass Oktoberfestbeer, and a dinner of steak, fries and salat. Also, live music and entertainment.

. Oh, by the way, the glasses in the smiley are way, way to small...

By the way: here's a nice webcam from that party...
http://www.muenchen.tv/programm/wiesn/wiesn-webcam/#.UkMz5hBj7mv

Jealous, no, I'm not. I just hope he will have some nice days in Philadelphia next week and gets good news on his health. I think I'm going to "Prosit" on that.

_____________________________

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/26/2013 1:31:48 AM

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I have gone through some phases of the phony war, repetitive moves that I did not want to use a screen on. At the end of the Nov/Dec move there were phases such as build units etc. which are at the end of every turn [2 month period] I came to the "Return to Base Axis" I clicked on the Admiral Hipper in the Denmark straits which allowed me to keep her at sea but I had to drop down from a [3] to a [2] in the sea box.

Now in all the testing I have done, I have never done this move, remember the Graf Spee was patroling in the North Atlantic normally I would have left her there. But I am still testing. I did not click on the Graf Spee in the stay at sea impulse which means she will have to return to base when that impulse comes up.

You can see the impulse in writing up on the interface "Return to Base Axis" this means the Graf Spee had no choices, it had to return to base. I did this for a reason.

I wanted to see if the Graf Spee could return to it's port in Kiel without inteference from the CW warships in the North Sea, this is how I learn my rules, as I was returning if I received a sign on my counter [trying to remember its shape], a little round symbol with a another symbol inside of it when I would try to enter Kiel, it meant that there could be a possible interception in the North Sea by the CW fleet there and the Graf Spee would have to go into a sea box and go through the interception phases, even then she could still possibly escape the CW fleet.

I assume what the program is telling me is that on a retutn to base phase no interceptions are allowed by anyone.

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/26/2013 2:00:28 AM

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THis a close up of the Graf Spee in Kiel several impulses later you will notice in the interface it is the Jan/Feb 1940 turn and it is Axis phase 5. Please notice the orange circle over the ships counter, again it means the Graf Spee is disorganized and will remain so for the rest of the Jan/Feb turn unless she is reorganized, probably depicting she is being resupplied and overhauled for a month. Next turn she will be ready to sail.

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/26/2013 2:10:08 AM

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We are in the Axis 5th phase in the Jan/Feb 1940 phase. All of the German Infantry, Panzers, and Luftwaffe are ready for their orders to launch an invasion either into the Netherlands or Belgium or both.
I could declare war on the Netherlands and Belgium in the next German phase if I so desired. Of course it is snowing right now and may be snowing into the next 2 month turn, you just dont know in this game.

Now please remember I am making attacks not to win but to show different moves and combinations it does not mean this is what I normally do.

What is the caveat here, if I make some bad moves in the eyes of all you Grognards I will revert to my statement [does not mean this is what I normally do]

I will be spared all those nasty vilfications of bad moves by that statement.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/27/2013 10:33:27 PM

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A comment here about the way I attempted to do an AAR that I have never tried before and that is to explain as I go along as I would want it explained to me, slowly and in laymans terms. I may have failed at that sometimes but I am still learning. I expect and demand

other posters very best in keeping up with me [Crimson Tide] and keeping me on the straight and narrow path to victory with your very kind comments to show me the errors of my ways.

Hmmm Norway, I wonder should I or should I not. I have plenty of time to take a good look at Norway and see if it is worth capturing. I have read pros and cons of taking Norway.

Cons: It is not worth it because it would take too many German units to properly protect it, makes sense. And only one resource.

Pros: Airbases there could cause some havoc for CW fleets in the North sea, it would be pretty easy to interdict supplies and transports sailing through the North Sea to the Russain Port of Murmansk in the Artic Ocean if the Fuhrer ever broke the treaty with Russia.

I think I will do a feasability study for a few phases, my Fallschrimjager will be able to deploy in the Mar/Apr turn, maybe I could use them for support if I decide to invade Norway, in the meantime I think I should move some airpower north to the port of Frederikshavn. I moved 2 bomber wings to the port the Ju 88A1 and the Do 17Z that would give me a possible 7 points of ground attack power. To support them if need be, I had the Bf 110C squardon fly to the hex west of the bombers. I picked that unit because they have a range of 5 hexes, the two Bf 109 units are a little stronger in an air to air battle but there range is only 3 hexes.

I would have like to use the two Ju 87B but their range from the Frederikshaven hex could not reach Oslo which is 4 hexes away. Of course they could support German forces 3 hexes away. Or be re-airbased into Norway during one of the impulses after a ground unit or Para unit captured a hex outside of Oslo. Damn decisions.

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/27/2013 11:22:06 PM

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This screen shows the Para corp in the Mar/Apr/ production cycle and can be deployed during that turn.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/27/2013 11:30:36 PM

Ur_Vile_WEdge

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You're leaving out an enormous con: Attacking Norway allows the Norwegian fleet to join the Allies. You're giving the CW an extra 2 transports and 15 convoy points to use against you in the battle of the Atlantic.

As a CW player, if I were offered it, I'd give the Germans Norway, for free, for those units in my fleet.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/27/2013 11:49:29 PM

WIF_Killzone

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That's a lot of Iron Bottoms

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/28/2013 12:27:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

You're leaving out an enormous con: Attacking Norway allows the Norwegian fleet to join the Allies. You're giving the CW an extra 2 transports and 15 convoy points to use against you in the battle of the Atlantic.

As a CW player, if I were offered it, I'd give the Germans Norway, for free, for those units in my fleet.

Great point I am very inexperience game wise against an opponet, my question to you U4_Vile if the Germans put some of their naval assests into the North sea first they could possibly intercept those transports, probably a bad move because of the strength of the CW fleet that could be in Scapa Flow. How about interdiction with German airpower in the North sea if they try to flee to England, does not mean the German searches will find the Nordes..

Finally, this is what I was looking for, ideas, strategy, comments any comments negative or positive. Thank you. Remember I am not trying

to win, I am trying to show new players all kind of possibilities, like to invade or not to invade. [That caveat protects me from bad decisions I might make from here on

] What do you think of using the Paras.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/28/2013 12:30:05 AM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/28/2013 12:33:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

That's a lot of Iron Bottoms

Killzone I really like that rule, bottomed ships if that is what you meant not sure, makes a player think twice to go up against anti-aircraft fire protecting ships in a harbor and to possibly lose a squadron or two, only to have 3 or 4 ships bottom out and be refloated later. Gain vs risk I guess. I am learning gentlemen keep it coming.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/28/2013 12:35:01 AM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/28/2013 1:36:04 AM

shaddock

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Bo, for demonstration purposes only, I would show the invasion of Norway. Especially with the paras. In the game I would be unlikely to invade since I would need too many units to garrison properly. And those will be desperately needed on the Atlantic wall or the Eastern Front. I would try to align Norway with diplomacy rather than force. If by some chance you are able to take Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad then I might invade just to interdict anymore supplies from going to Murmansk.

_____________________________

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/28/2013 1:55:18 AM

Ur_Vile_WEdge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Great point I am very inexperience game wise against an opponet, my question to you U4_Vile if the Germans put some of their naval assests into the North sea first they could possibly intercept those transports, probably a bad move because of the strength of the CW fleet that could be in Scapa Flow. How about interdiction with German airpower in the North sea if they try to flee to England, does not mean the German searches will find the Nordes..

Finally, this is what I was looking for, ideas, strategy, comments any comments negative or positive. Thank you. Remember I am not trying to win, I am trying to show new players all kind of possibilities, like to invade or not to invade. [That caveat protects me from bad decisions I might make from here on] What do you think of using the Paras.

Bo

You'd need to cover more than the North Sea. The Norwegians can put up to 8 naval units in Narvik and Trondheim, and those guys can escape via the Norweigan sea, Denmark strait, and on down through the Faeroes Gap, dodging your stuff in the North Sea. If you want to interdict them, you'll need to extend your net farther north.

Furthermore, the British and French likely have their own warboats in high boxes of the North Sea to intercept your stuff, so getting out into the Norwegian sea is not a zero risk endeavor. I suppose you could send your submarines, but that lacks a bit of punch, your subs can't really hit all that hard, and the British are likely to send in more guys to escort the fleeing transport.

quote:

I would try to align Norway with diplomacy rather than force. If by some chance you are able to take Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad then I might invade just to interdict anymore supplies from going to Murmansk.

Unless you're playing with PoliF (most people don't, in my experience) you cannot align Norway.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/28/2013 2:25:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shaddock

Bo, for demonstration purposes only, I would show the invasion of Norway. Especially with the paras. In the game I would be unlikely to invade since I would need too many units to garrison properly. And those will be desperately needed on the Atlantic wall or the Eastern Front. I would try to align Norway with diplomacy rather than force. If by some chance you are able to take Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad then I might invade just to interdict anymore supplies from going to Murmansk.

Ok Shad, tonight I got to rest up to take on Steve tommorrow in Paoli Pa. Maybe he has a hidden cheat code handy like they have in Cod2 and other games. Damn I have a cheat code it's called a beta tester. It's like being God I can change the weather, part the seas and---- oh thats Moses sorry.

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/28/2013 5:35:33 AM

Snydly

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Thanks for this bo !!

Yes the Norway decision is a tough one for sure. Anyways good points are being made by others.

I am piping up here now because the M/J offensive into France is the paramount task ahead of you, I have seen friends try to do to many attacks at lower odds to break into Sedan and FAIL!!! (thus giving a long grueling campaign well into S/O) Keep your wits about you and hope for a long 6 impulse + M/J in France. This will help get you past one of the biggest new player hurdles in the game.

Good Luck

_____________________________

Looking forward to playing my favorite board game WIF on the computer.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 4:36:22 AM

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At a suggestion from Klydon I decided to change the wording from an AAR to a demo.
This is a demo of an Invasion of Norway and the Netherlands.

The flyout depicts 4 units in Frederikshaven, a 4/4 infantry corp to keep the Baltice sea a German sea. A Ju 88A1 level bomber if needed. the 2nd Para and it's transport plus other German assets in the norther part of Denmark

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 4:46:40 AM

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This screen depicts the invasion fleet in the Baltic sea, German battleships for bombardment if necessary, I used the fly out instead of the naval summary chart, because that chart takes up so much of the screen, the only problem with the flyout when I take a snaphot, I can only show the first 9 units, there is another 6/4 in the invasion group. That comes to an attack land unit factor of 12, because they are not Marines their attack value will drop to 6 [attack at half power]

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 4:55:31 AM

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The weather chart is for the first axis phase in the May/June turn. This the first decent weather since Jan/Feb,and perfect for invasion of Norway and the Netherlands.

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 5:00:06 AM

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The invasion of Norway has begun.

2 German corps landed unopposed except for a notional unit on the sea side hex southwest of Oslo. I added the notional unit into the mix but it did not matter. I sent the Paras onto the port city of Kristiansand and I did not add the notional unit so I could capture the city unopposed, if I had too I could have used fleet bombardment and air ground attacks to assist the paras.

I felt that the port city was important in case I have a problem taking Oslo with my two 6/4 corps. I could then transport in additional assests if they were needed through the captured port.
Was there any way I could have stopped Norwegian vessels from reaching England? I could not attack Oslo directly because the program would not allow that so I am assuming it is not an invadable hex, I believe it has to be an all sea hex.

Bo

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 5:21:35 AM

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Now you know I had to show them

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 2:34:05 PM

shaddock

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I'm not certain if I read the rules properly or if they could have reached, but if you landed the paras in Stavanger, you might have had a chance of capturing or destroying the naval units there.

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 2:43:01 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shaddock

I'm not certain if I read the rules properly or if they could have reached, but if you landed the paras in Stavanger, you might have had a chance of capturing or destroying the naval units there.

Yes. During the surprise impulse following a declaration of war, there are probabilities for naval units: escaping, being destroyed, and being captured.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to shaddock)

Post #: 30