WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE!

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WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 1:04:17 PM

kirk23

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From day one off playing this game, I have disagreed with the timeline the game follows,as you can see from the photo below, Germany declares war on Russia 2 days before declaring war on France and invading Belgium! Since Russia has a pact with Serbia, mother Russia is already getting ready for war, even before Germany declares war on Russia, so how come the entente player can do nothing with his Russian forces, until after Britain joins the war?

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 1:09:37 PM

kirk23

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I have altered the game scripts, so that now the Entente player can start to prepare Russia for the war,even before France,Belgium & Britian.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 1:46:27 PM

operating

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That's in your MOD...What about the stock game, that everybody has bought? You get nitwits, like myself, who do not know how to set up for a MOD..?

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 1:52:28 PM

operating

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

From day one off playing this game, I have disagreed with the timeline the game follows,as you can see from the photo below, Germany declares war on Russia 2 days before declaring war on France and invading Belgium! Since Russia has a pact with Serbia, mother Russia is already getting ready for war, even before Germany declares war on Russia, so how come the entente player can do nothing with his Russian forces, until after Britain joins the war?

Did you send this over to the Slitherine forum, thread for re-balancing CTGW?

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 2:06:04 PM

kirk23

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I have made a link over on the Slitherine forum to this topic, at the very least the Entente player playing as Russia, should be able to purchase a Garrison or 2,and put his Research in motion + shell production.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 2:45:41 PM

kirk23

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Turn 2 and the Entente player, can start to interact with his Russian forces as per history.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 7:27:28 PM

operating

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

From day one off playing this game, I have disagreed with the timeline the game follows,as you can see from the photo below, Germany declares war on Russia 2 days before declaring war on France and invading Belgium! Since Russia has a pact with Serbia, mother Russia is already getting ready for war, even before Germany declares war on Russia, so how come the entente player can do nothing with his Russian forces, until after Britain joins the war?

I really like this question! Again where is the designer's notes, on the how/why CTGW is set up the way it is...

Your question "opens up the door", that would negate the arguments about what is historical/playability, overshadowed by the fact that the game is incorrect to begin with.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 10:33:03 PM

kirk23

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This game is good, it has the potential to be great, but some where down the line the designers got side tracked, they took the easy option, off abstracting a great many things,take the Infantry unit as an example, what does it represent, an Army,Corps or Division what, does anyone know? the game is supposed to be about world war 1, but for me and others it just does not feel right,something is missing and that something went wrong from the very start, as I have highlighted about Russia, There is absolutely no reason why the timeline can't be followed as it happened WW1,why is it that Germany declared war on Russia days before France, yet the Entente player can't interact or control anything about Russia until after Britain joins the war,its wrong pure and simple.

Another thing the game is called Commanders The Great War, yet there are no Commanders in place from the start of the game, so I assume its the humble soldier and sailor who make the decisions while the Generals and Admirals are still on holiday suning themselves crazy!

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/3/2013 11:23:34 PM

villev

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

This game is good, it has the potential to be great, but some where down the line the designers got side tracked, they took the easy option, off abstracting a great many things,take the Infantry unit as an example, what does it represent, an Army,Corps or Division what, does anyone know? the game is supposed to be about world war 1, but for me and others it just does not feel right,something is missing and that something went wrong from the very start, as I have highlighted about Russia, There is absolutely no reason why the timeline can't be followed as it happened WW1,why is it that Germany declared war on Russia days before France, yet the Entente player can't interact or control anything about Russia until after Britain joins the war,its wrong pure and simple.

Another thing the game is called Commanders The Great War, yet there are no Commanders in place from the start of the game, so I assume its the humble soldier and sailor who make the decisions while the Generals and Admirals are still on holiday suning themselves crazy!

I think it's a bit more complicated issue than that. With a game of this scale you need to have some level of abstraction to keep it playable.

The entry dates at the start of the 1914 scenario are pretty close to the actual timeline: Russia needed time for mobilizing it's armies, so it wasn't ready to join the war immediately when Serbia was invaded. First Russian turn in the game now is turn #5 / Aug 20, which is very close to the actual date the Russian attacks started, that being Aug 18th. Formal declaration of war and practical start of army scale operations are different things.

Also, it's called "Commander - ...", in singular, presumably referring to the player.

It's good that you're digging up historical information and thinking of how to get that in the game- but in my opinion the game's actually pretty well balanced at the moment, apart from Russian capitulation and US entry conditions, and I think it's a very good idea to keep the issue of game balance and playability on the table when considering changes. Unit scale, for example, is somewhat abstract- but it works pretty well with the amount of units that can be fielded being just about right to force the player to make compromises when deciding where to deploy heavily and where to leave the front less well covered. With an increased number of units there would be a risk of swamping the map and almost killing the manouver side of the game.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/4/2013 12:07:10 AM

kirk23

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Russia started to mobilize against the Austria/Hungary border,as soon as Austria attacked Serbia, and then Germany asked Russia to stop the Mobilization, so without a shadow of a doubt, the Entente player should be interacting with Russian forces and making decisions,even if its just getting the research put in motion, before Germany attacks Belgium,historical fact trumps game play in my book, and will always do so. Game balance gets to much attention as far as I'm concerned, war is not fair or balanced for that matter, and the game should reflect that.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/4/2013 2:39:49 AM

operating

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I was cerntainly wrong about the arguement; "Historical vs Playability", just read 2 posts, that were passionate in their views, besides being very interesting. Was it King Solomon, who decided to have a baby cut in half to satisfy a feud between a baby's mother and father, but had relented, when the parents realized, they did not want the death of their child and settled their differences....

We all enjoy this game. Yes, Like in King Solomon's Court, we would like to be heard, not with the intent to destroy the game. For we have no Court to express our veiws, other than this forum and hope to have an interactive discussion with the Designers about what can or cannot be done with CTGW, which would be the healthier path to be on.

< Message edited by operating -- 10/4/2013 2:44:28 AM >

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/4/2013 7:34:28 AM

villev

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Russia started to mobilize against the Austria/Hungary border,as soon as Austria attacked Serbia, and then Germany asked Russia to stop the Mobilization, so without a shadow of a doubt, the Entente player should be interacting with Russian forces and making decisions,even if its just getting the research put in motion, before Germany attacks Belgium,historical fact trumps game play in my book, and will always do so. Game balance gets to much attention as far as I'm concerned, war is not fair or balanced for that matter, and the game should reflect that.

But my point was that having Russia enter the conflict before France and Britan would not only be bad for gameplay, it would also be ahistorical. There's no other level of interaction than having full control of the country, and that would be too much. Fiddling with research for one turn would make no practical difference, and letting Russia attack with it's armies before the current date in game is something that would not have been possible in actual history.

Mobilization in-game would be railing troops from rear areas and building new ones. So you could think of Russia doing that for the first 4 turns when you dont have control of them.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/4/2013 11:01:43 AM

kirk23

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As it stands with the present game mechanics, all Russia can do against Germany is move towards the German border, because you cannot declare war until turn 5 against a neutral country, so for 3 turns what the Entente Russian player can do is,Attack Austria/Hungary and setup his defence where he is weak, and do research and increase shell production etc.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/5/2013 10:38:59 PM

kirk23

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I have been looking at all the major Countries historical research, and apart from the gamey aspect, I can see no reason why these Countries, can't be researching all the different technology from the start off the war, so I have removed the unlock delay imposed, as a player if I'm in control of a Country, then I want to make all the decision from the start of the war.

Photo shows Russia, but this change applies for all the major countries!

NB: I have also reduced lab upkeep from 3 to 2, plus other changes too cost and build time of tech!

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/7/2013 10:40:25 AM

kirk23

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ONE EXAMPLE OFF WHY I NEVER EVER PLAY A BOG STANDARD GAME STRAIGHT OUT THE BOX:

In a standard game when Britain joins the war, she can't unlock Naval research technology for 6 turns or 3 months, just think about this for one cotton picking moment, Britain is a naval super power in 1914, and has been making huge advances in naval research for centuries, and yet this game comes along, and bang as an Entente player, you can do nothing with Britain naval research, this is just one example of the total bull this game throws up time and time again, how come any off these stupid decisions ever got past the drawing board is beyond me, they are totally hair brained and nuts!!

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/9/2013 6:38:07 AM

kirk23

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Russia gets ready for war. New event screen on turn 2, shows that Russia is responding to Austria-Hungary aggression against Serbia. This is historically accurate and not the nonsense the game has, where by the Russian player can do nothing until turn 5, to influence the early war developments and deployments.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/9/2013 8:23:06 AM

kirk23

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World War I

At the beginning of World War I, Russia had an air force second only to France, although a significant part of the Imperial Russian Air Force used outdated French aircraft. Initially, Russians used aviation only for reconnaissance and coordination of artillery fire, but in December 1914 a squadron of Ilya Muromets bombers was formed and used against the German and Austro-Hungarian armies.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/11/2013 1:16:50 AM

jtbb64

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Some things to keep in mind when it comes to how things were historically vs how you play the game are:

1) Hindsight- you know what research reward you will get, when in real life, much research ends up with no benefit and wastes resources. You don't have that in a game. You know what you will get for your efforts.

2)Fore knowledge of what powers will come to your aid, and on what turn. Again in real life, it is all unknown when, or even if, any country will actually come to your aid.

3)In game events to come- you know ahead of time and can plan. When, historically, these events were not known till "after" the fact.

To have a game play historically 100% accurate, would mean the outcome is predetermined. Some variance is needed to allow for a "balance" which will allow either side to win, in spite of history. You can have a game "based" on historical events, but does not necessarily play out precisely as history records it.

This game is good, but does have some balance issues. Right now, it seems to favor the Central Powers in my experience. Each side can win though, which is good.

These views are merely my opinion, based on 30 years of war-gaming.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/11/2013 1:37:23 PM

kirk23

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I don't want the game to follow history completely, but I do want it to, at least make you feel like you are playing a WW1 period game. I like the game a lot, or I would not bother wasting my time trying to improve it even further, this game has the potential to be so much more, and it sells itself short in a great many areas, but given time these can all be improved.

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RE: WORLD WAR 1 TIMELINE! - 10/25/2013 7:27:06 PM

kirk23

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2 New Cities for Russia near Warsaw, Lodz & Lublin !