DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV (WITHDRAWN)

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DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV (WITHDRAWN)

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DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV (WITHDRAWN) - 10/4/2013 3:35:23 PM

decaf

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

==============================================================
Dear Everybody--
This paragraph up here is an edit.
I'm withdrawing this request because I discovered the
Maritime Interdiction capability is not going to be
deployed until 2015. This means the Block IV's should be
left alone, and a new "MMT" Block IV version should be
added.

My apologies for this confusion.
(But it is fun learning about this stuff...)
==============================================================

Dear Sirs,

I request a database modification for:

*All* Tomahawk Block IV weapons
--------------------------------
586 -- RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
434 -- RGM-109H Tomahawk Blk IV TTPV
377 -- UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
810 -- UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
1165-- UGM-109H Tomahawk Blk IV TTPV
1180-- UGM-109H Tomahawk Blk IV TTPV

I request VALID TARGETS be updated:

add "Surface Ships" to all instances above

Rationale and Sources:

Please note the 2012 YouTube video by Ratheon

"Tomahawk Maritime Interdiction"

Watch the video (it is short) and see Ratheon advertise the
ability to blow away a cruiser and do so "optimally" and in
a synchronized fashion.

I am aware the Friedman 5th Edition says that the antiship
version was retired, but I cite Ratheon as a better source.
(Ratheon makes the Blk IV Tomahawks)

< Message edited by javafiend -- 10/5/2013 8:31:46 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/4/2013 3:38:56 PM

Primarchx

Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline

I've seen this too. I believe Ragnar had found add'l info saying that ASM capability was still questionable at the time.

(in reply to decaf)

Post #: 2

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/5/2013 12:10:57 AM

joey

Posts: 1408
Joined: 5/8/2004
From: Johnstown, PA
Status: offline

I can tell you from personal experience that there was a ASuW version as well as a Land attack version of the Tomahawk that was available since the mid 1980s.

(in reply to Primarchx)

Post #: 3

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/5/2013 12:14:39 AM

Primarchx

Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline

Yes, the dedicated ASuW version was taken out of service some time ago - many were converted to TLAMs after Gulf War I.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

I can tell you from personal experience that there was a ASuW version as well as a Land attack version of the Tomahawk that was available since the mid 1980s.

(in reply to joey)

Post #: 4

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/5/2013 2:49:20 AM

decaf

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

Dear Primarchx,

You say:
"I've seen this too. I believe Ragnar had found add'l info saying that ASM
capability was still questionable at the time. "

Let be be absolutely clear.
And, let me emphasize I focus exclusively on Tomahawk Block IV.

Yes, there were dedicated anti-ship Tomahawks.
Yes, they retired some of the anti-ship Tomahawks.
This is clearly evident to anybody who takes the time and effort
to review the 5th edition of Friedman's Naval Weapon Systems (USNI).

But, Primarchx, are you saying that in 2012, that Ratheon is lying in saying
they have an anti-ship capability for the Tomahawk Block IV?

Or, are you saying that between 2012, and 2013, that Ragnar has gotten information
that the Tomahawk Block IV anti-ship capability has been abandoned by Ratheon?

Primarchx, did you watch that YouTube video? Is Ratheon lying to the world?
I emphasize, I am talking about 2013, not about the Gulf War I.

I sincerely hope that error in the database is not ignored based on
events documented by Friedman for the Block I through III versions of
the Tomahawk. If Ragnar has special info, I would like to know about
it.

(in reply to decaf)

Post #: 5

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/5/2013 2:57:31 AM

Primarchx

Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline

Yo, javafiend, easy there big fella. I'm saying that as I recall the anti-shipping feature of the TLAM Block IV (ie TACTOM) had not been 100% verified by the Devs when I inquired about this very thing a while back. I've seen the video and read the book + others. If you have more info, please feel free to provide it.

(in reply to decaf)

Post #: 6

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/5/2013 3:32:08 AM

decaf

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

Hi, Primarchx!

I don't have more information than the Internet, a
recent Janes, and Friedman 5 (and Courant, and several
other references).

But, honest to God, the "Tomahawk Maritime Interdiction"
video is linked from the Ratheon product web page(!)
I'd provide the links to everybody here on the list,
but I need to get a few more posts before Matrix will let
me put a link in a message.

I would not want to be on an enemy ship facing a brace
of Block IV's against me! Command needs to model this.

Anyway, to model the Tomahawk "correctly", it would be
necessary to create several versions of the Blocks
I through III. Some would cover the 80's-90's, when
anti-ship was available, and some would cover the
land-only versions. Friedman goes into excruciating
detail in describing the retirement and conversion
of older anti-ship Tomahawks into anti-land version.
I admit I am lazy in not explicitly detailing the
appropriate time intervals for the Block I, Block II,
and Block III versions. I am only focusing on Block IV.
Ratheon makes them. Ratheon says they have
anti-ship capability.

What more is needed to get a change to the Command database?
Can you tell the dev's that you are not the only one to
notice that Ratheon says Tomahawk Block IV is anti-ship?

(in reply to decaf)

Post #: 7

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV - 10/5/2013 3:44:39 AM

Primarchx

Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline

I saw that video and brought it to their attention a while back. I agree, it's very cool. But what ends up actually being procured can differ significantly from manufacturer offerings. In the end I'm confident that accuracy to detail will win out with the Command Devs. There are also many variants of the Tomahawk in the game DB, spanning it's inception through the present day.

(in reply to decaf)

Post #: 8

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV (WITHDRAWN) - 10/5/2013 8:37:55 PM

decaf

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

Dear Everybody,

I edited the top of the thread, and I am withdrawing
this request. I just found out the Maritime Interdiction
capability is not going to be deployed until 2015.
So, we certainly don't want to modify all the current
Block IV's.

I'm guessing the Multimission Tomahawk slated for 2015
will be new buys. So it is appropriate to have a new
database entry for that version. So, I'll file a new
request.

Please consider this old request withdrawn. Thanx.

(in reply to Primarchx)

Post #: 9

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV (WITHDRAWN) - 10/8/2013 7:49:08 AM

Tomcat84

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

How about this?

http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2430

(in reply to decaf)

Post #: 10

RE: DB CHANGE REQUEST: Tomahawk Block IV (WITHDRAWN) - 10/8/2013 5:03:32 PM

decaf

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

Yes, Tomcat84, there is Ratheon work on sensors.
They are working on both the passive ESM seeker and an
active millimeter-wave radar sensor. I understand they are
going to be part of the Tomahawk Block IV (MMT) Multimission
Tomahawk upgrade. It's reported that NAVAIR has given
Ratheon a contract for MMT for 2015 deployment.

There is a link to the MMT version at
informationdissemination dot net in an August 18, 2012
article: "Back to the Future -- Targeting the New TASM"

For this reason I withdrew my request to change all the
Block IV's. And, instead, I'm requesting the addition of
the Tomahawk Block IV (MMT) as a new weapon. Most of the
stats stay the same, of course.

(in reply to Tomcat84)

Post #: 11