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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Automatic Convoys

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Automatic Convoys - 1/17/2003 7:44:02 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
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I am interested in knowing how many players are using this option.

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Post #: 1

- 1/17/2003 8:06:40 PM

Knavey

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
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As the IJN playing against Feinder, I use them sporatically but always have a couple in route to somewhere. These are generally unescorted APs of the 10000 ton size. I rarely put more than 2 in the TF so its really just a trickle of supplies, but it helps if I have forgotten to supply someone.

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Post #: 2

- 1/17/2003 8:18:35 PM

Hoplosternum

Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline

Hello Kid,

I really like the idea of these but I don't like how they seem to operate. I appear to be able to give instructions for them to be able to run between two ports (say Brisbane and Port Morseby) by giving them a destination after I have made them computer controlled.

However once I have a few of these set up, especially if more than one is going to the same base the computer then begins to take over, often making very bad choices when it does so. My routine convoys stop going where I want and try and resupply anty base they feel like, often the most isolated and dangerous. You press end turn and watch in horror as a transport fleet suddenly makes a dash to Buna in the teeth of the whole Japanese LBA. I supose the computer is trying to spread the supplies to all my bases but why does it not just do this if I have not specified a location? And it has no conception of my plans to set up well stocked forward bases :)

I don't know what the idea of this was but I think a function to automate at least some of your supply convoys would be very useful. In UV the amount is just about manageable to do everything manually but in WitP it is going to be a real hassle. I had hoped the Routine convoys would enable me to set-up-and-forget at least some of my safer back area routes. I did this initially but I rarely use them now and never in a PBEM game.

Cheers.

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Post #: 3

- 1/17/2003 8:39:01 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
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Let me explain what I�m up to. :rolleyes:

WITP will have an automatic supply convoy system. I have my own idea of how that system should work and I�ve collected inputs form the various posts on the board. What I don�t have is a good feel for how the players view the current system. I figure the litmus test for that would be to see how much it is used. For all I know the majority of the players are very happy with the system as it is and use it all the time.

Rick

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Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.

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Post #: 4

- 1/17/2003 8:50:48 PM

Knavey

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
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Kid,

I noticed 21 years in the Nav, plus orlando on your tag as well as training specialist.

I thought the shut the base in Orlando down? I went through boot there as well as Nuc Pwr School before Ballston Spa and CVN-71.

Do they still have something going in Orlando?

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USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

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Post #: 5

- 1/17/2003 8:56:22 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Knavey
[B]Kid,

I noticed 21 years in the Nav, plus orlando on your tag as well as training specialist.

I thought the shut the base in Orlando down? I went through boot there as well as Nuc Pwr School before Ballston Spa and CVN-71.

Do they still have something going in Orlando? [/B][/QUOTE]

I work at a place called The Naval Air Warfare Center. It is in the Orlando area but not on the old base. I went through boot there as well. We help build a lot of the training devices for the Navy, flight simulators, sub simulators and things like that.

Rick

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Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.

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Post #: 6

- 1/17/2003 9:02:57 PM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
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From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
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Orlando: It's not just for Disney anymore...

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Post #: 7

- 1/17/2003 9:06:07 PM

Veer

Posts: 2231
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Excuse me
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I use it for virtually all my supply runs, but that dosn't mean i'm happy with it.

Problems:
1) When set to CS:XXX, the AI should not send your convoy to supply any old base which has no supply. How can I simulate Penal battalions then?;) It should do this only if it's if it's set to Computer Controlled without a destination.

2) Convoys shouldn't unload supplies automatically at their home base if they have 'retirement on'. If they've retired to their home base they should sit there loaded untill the player decides to either send them backon their mission or clicks the unload supply button. This goes for troops also.

3) Turn around time should be implemented. I want to be able to tell my convoy to go there, unload, come back, then wait X number of days before loading again, going there, coming back, etc...

4) Waypoints - don't know how this will be possible, but you should be able to set waypoints for routine convoys.

5) Troop transport needs to have a friendlier option. I've just about got the hang of it, but i still end up doing too much mental math. Their should be an option whereby you can select 'troop transport', select units to load, then the AI will automatically pull the requiste number of AP's/AK's out of those docked at that port and form a TF. Maybe a simple favour basis to choose which ships it pulls out first - AKs over APs, larger cap over smaller. You can then add anymore ships or escorts to the TF using that transfer/ships from too button. This may not appeal to the grog, but for simply moving my troops from turk to rabaul or Brisbane to N'ma it will be ideal.

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- 1/17/2003 9:13:30 PM

Admiral DadMan

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Veer
[B]I use it for virtually all my supply runs, but that dosn't mean i'm happy with it.

Problems:
1) When set to CS:XXX, the AI should not send your convoy to supply any old base which has no supply. How can I simulate Penal battalions then?;) It should do this only if it's if it's set to Computer Controlled without a destination. [/B][/QUOTE]So I'm not the only one this happens to...

I would also like to see the TF check its fuel status, and not refuel from its destination base.

For example: If I'm building up supply depot/fuel stocks at Rabaul and Shortland with CS:XXXX and directed Transport TF's, and the TK/AO's and escorts can make the round trip, I don't want them to "top off". It's like running in quicksand becuase the fuel convoys can barely keep up.

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(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

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Post #: 9

- 1/17/2003 10:05:16 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
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I use the CS: versions all the time, with capacities of about 8000-9000 (either 3 x 3000 or 4 x 2000). They are generally small enough that the fly boys don't waste much effort on picking on them and they really! simplify ones life.

I have NEVER used the Routine Convoy version at all, as the though of ships randomly running around the map on me is just scary!

I have run into problems with CS: missions sometimes doing strange things like milling around? instead of delivering supplies or running off to deliver an empty load? so one can not completely ignore them.

The nice perk about them is they do not waste any time with loading/docking/undocking turnaround that returning convoys do under manual control, so generally you buy yourself an extra 1000 op points due to not having to wait until you can give orders to load and set a new destination. Early in the game, this can buy you a little bit of expansion that would not be possible otherwise.

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Post #: 10

- 1/17/2003 10:06:47 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
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From: Virginia, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Veer
[B]5) Troop transport needs to have a friendlier option. I've just about got the hang of it, but i still end up doing too much mental math. Their should be an option whereby you can select 'troop transport', select units to load, then the AI will automatically pull the requiste number of AP's/AK's out of those docked at that port and form a TF. Maybe a simple favour basis to choose which ships it pulls out first - AKs over APs, larger cap over smaller. You can then add anymore ships or escorts to the TF using that transfer/ships from too button. This may not appeal to the grog, but for simply moving my troops from turk to rabaul or Brisbane to N'ma it will be ideal. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, the system already does this and it is leading to all kinds of bugs/problems. This "feature" needs to be killed at once! Please see this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30854 for some of the problems players have found.

I would suggest that a NEW and ADDITIONAL way of making troop transport convoys be implemented where you select the units and the AI selects the ships. But if I have already created the TF, I **** well don't want the AI adding in ships on its own.

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Post #: 11

- 1/17/2003 10:09:46 PM

CapAndGown

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I never use routing convoys, but I do use continuous supply sometimes.

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Post #: 12

- 1/17/2003 10:16:41 PM

Grumbling Grogn

Posts: 207
Joined: 10/20/2002
From: Texas!
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CS convoys a lot. Don't trust/like the AI controlled routine convoys as they work now (might use them if they worked differently).

Waypoints were brought up and I would like to second this issue. Try running a simply supply line from Neumea to PM and watch as your AFs run north before they turn west and thus put themselves about 200 miles closer to the enemy than they need to (they should run due west until they hit the Aus. coast THEN turn north IMHO).

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Post #: 13

- 1/17/2003 10:19:57 PM

Veer

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by cap_and_gown
[B]
I would suggest that a NEW and ADDITIONAL way of making troop transport convoys be implemented where you select the units and the AI selects the ships. But if I have already created the TF, I **** well don't want the AI adding in ships on its own. [/B][/QUOTE]

That was what i was trying to say...:o

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Post #: 14

- 1/17/2003 10:55:02 PM

Yamamoto

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I would use them a lot more if we could designate any one base to be the origin point, instead of always being Truk. That would make it like designating a base a barge hub. I hope in WitP we will be able to select any base to be the start point of computer-controlled convoys.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kid
[B]Let me explain what I�m up to. :rolleyes:

WITP will have an automatic supply convoy system.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Are you saying that there will be some ships over which the player has NO control in WitP? I hope that is not the case.

Yamamoto

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Post #: 15

- 1/17/2003 11:10:34 PM

siRkid

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yamamoto
[B]Are you saying that there will be some ships over which the player has NO control in WitP? I hope that is not the case.

Yamamoto [/B][/QUOTE]

No that is not what I was saying. Just as in UV the player will be able to select this option.

Rick

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Post #: 16

Use them some - 1/18/2003 2:19:00 AM

mbatch729

Posts: 537
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
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As IJN, set up distribution to Rabaul/Shortland to run on a regular basis. Usually the 3000 Marus. However, if there is any possbility of enemy action, I manually run them.

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Post #: 17

- 1/18/2003 4:45:48 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
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Hi,

Good poll.

I use CS convoys but not nearly as much as I'd like to. The limit of only 1 per destination diminishes their benefit. I much prefer a stream of 1 or 2 ship convoys keeping my bases topped off with supply and fuel.

The small convoys attract little or no attention. Also, you don't have the situation where a bombardement TF hits your base right after you made your bi-weekly humongous delivery, wiping out 2/3 of it.

Anyway, I'd certainly hope that in WitP there is no limit and they run reliably. If there has to be a limit then it needs to be 6-8 per destination for them to be useful all the time. If the current system is used then supplying all our bases will be micromanagement hell.

Honestly, I think the routine convoy system from PacWar would be better than the current UV system, given those 2 choices. Routine convoys where we can set a priority level would work for me. Frontline bases would have to be supplied by manual convoys of course.

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Post #: 18

- 1/18/2003 7:19:30 AM

Drex

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
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I use CS convoys all the time especially the Truk to Rabaul route and always with barges. It saves alot of time. Sometimes a CS convoy will veer off to supply some small base so you need to check on them but overall, the system works.

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Post #: 19

- 1/18/2003 8:54:29 PM

Oliver Heindorf

Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
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well my answer is : i never use them. IMHO nothing the AI can do better then myself.

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Post #: 20

- 1/19/2003 12:08:48 AM

jww60

Posts: 18
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: San Jose, CA
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I have only played as the Allies so far.

I use automatic convoys a lot. I set up small 1 or 2 ship CS:xxx convoys. If a base needs more supply I set up another small convoy that will arrive between existing convoys rather than making 1 big convoy. This work well in the rear areas and early in the game before bases get close together. At long range the AI seems to ignore a small convoy. Once the convoys are closer to the enemy bases they become much more vulnerable but by then I am usually able to provide LR CAP and ASW patrols for them. For convoys to the forward areas I use the small AK's as they unload and leave the danger zone faster.

The other benefit is that if I lose a convoy to ambush I only lose a couple of small AK's.

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Post #: 21