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That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 2:29:29 AM

erichswafford

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Oops, he did it again...

Well, I'm sure the reviewer will have yet more likely excuses and "clarifications" for yet another hugely misleading statement in his "review" of Command MANO over on (the otherwise great site) SimHQ.

Here we have the usual Big Grand Sweeping Statement (No hotkeys whatsoever! It's a clickfest nightmare!) that the reviewer seems to enjoy. And yet again it's just plain misleading at best, and an outright lie at worst.

Is anyone noticing a trend here?

Because, as I promised, there's plenty more to come...

_____________________________

My Command Review at SimHQ: http://www.simhq.com/daily-news/command-modern-airnaval-operations-1-01-review.html

Post #: 1

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 5:14:23 AM

Mac Linehan

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
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kondor999 -

I am not familiar with the gent in question; however he does seem, at best, to be singularly uninformed.

Command will stand on it's own merits because it is a First Rate effort, and because of the very knowledgeable individuals on this form, who do know they are about and are contributing much towards improving the game.

It takes no intellectual effort to criticize another's hard work; the measure of a man is the good that he does and contributes.

Mac

"Nothing impresses men more than self restraint"
Colin Powell

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 10/6/2013 5:16:24 AM >

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Post #: 2

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 5:39:50 AM

kashirigi

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I may be wrong about this, because I don't have a copy of the game, but from the screenshots you've posted, I don't see any hotkeys for the map settings. If that's the case, then I'm afraid the reviewer is correct, as the first sentence is referring to the map options menu, not the entire list of pull down menus.

Regardless of what you may think of his reviews (and I have no stake in this either way), picking on this particular section probably isn't helping.

However, If I'm wrong and the map options do, in fact, have hotkeys, then I take it back.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)

Post #: 3

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 5:48:27 AM

tevans6220

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As Mac just said, the game will stand on it's own merits. So what's your point? Why be so petty to continue attacking? Apparently you've bought the game and you think it's a good game. I think so too. I also think it's a little dumb to continue attacking one review that you don't like or don't agree with. Instead of going on a half-cocked crusade to discredit the reviewer, why not just play your game and enjoy it. These stupid Harpoon feuds that seems to have gone on for years have got to stop sometime.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)

Post #: 4

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 6:29:30 AM

TonyAAA

Posts: 141
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From: Arlington, TX
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Personally I think it would be better to limit this discussion to SimHQ's own forum.

Why air their dirty laundry here?

(in reply to tevans6220)

Post #: 5

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 6:54:44 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kashirigi

I may be wrong about this, because I don't have a copy of the game, but from the screenshots you've posted, I don't see any hotkeys for the map settings. If that's the case, then I'm afraid the reviewer is correct, as the first sentence is referring to the map options menu, not the entire list of pull down menus.

Regardless of what you may think of his reviews (and I have no stake in this either way), picking on this particular section probably isn't helping.

However, If I'm wrong and the map options do, in fact, have hotkeys, then I take it back.

No, you're right.

These attempts to prove the review wrong are batting .333 - at best. May even be hitless.

_____________________________

(in reply to kashirigi)

Post #: 6

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 9:05:00 AM

Hertston

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He put that big red arrow there for a reason - it points at listed shortcuts to a selection of map options. The 'entire list' IS of map options, a fact cunningly hidden in the descriptive label 'Map Options Pull-down Menu'. As the stated aim was to disprove the generalized statement that "there are no hot-key functions whatsoever", the criticism of the criticism is therefore 100% correct. Whether it's profitable is another question.

That said, there are certainly not short-cuts for all the options, or indeed most of them - and mighty useful they would be. As would be noting the keys in the drop-down menu text.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 10/6/2013 10:23:48 AM >

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 7

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 10:58:21 AM

Xornox

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The review was one of the best game reviews I have read. The writer clearly knew the subject and was able to discuss important details and flaws of the game. Censorship and these new attacks are ridiculous actions. It is odd that when customers were querying reviews of the new game, Matrix was trying to remove them from web???

If there are problems in the game which the review reveals, it is just valuable feedback for developers.

< Message edited by Xornox -- 10/6/2013 10:59:29 AM >

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 8

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 11:35:19 AM

smudge56

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
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Now I've not been around when there was the harpoon dispute. But my god just ignore the people who have grudges etc. If there is a serious issue then let the creators deal with it. Lets us enjoy this new game which ok isn't perfect but who has ever had a game released that was perfect. What the guys are doing is listening to people and addressing things as they go along. From what I've read is that with some of the peoples ideas, that they had already been discussed but hadn't been included at the time. Because for one thing this game would be still in development for years to come. What I've learnt is you cannot please everyone. This game has so much potential and that can be achieved over time with incremental updates and input from this knowledgeable community.

So lets just move on and enjoy the future guys.

(in reply to Xornox)

Post #: 9

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 11:46:55 AM

BipBip

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Anyway, there is still work to do on hotkeys and menus :

How do you classify a contact as neutral, unknown or friendly ? I know the "h" key to mark a contact as hostile (and it's not in the manual), but that's all.

< Message edited by BipBip -- 10/6/2013 1:57:00 PM >

(in reply to smudge56)

Post #: 10

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 1:41:23 PM

ComDev

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BipBip

Anyway, there is still work to do on hotkeys and menus :

How to you classify a contact as neutral, unknown or friendly ? I know the "h" key to mark a contact as hostile (and it's not in the manual), but that's all.

A feature request on this is already in the bug/feature tracking database, so its on the to-do list

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to BipBip)

Post #: 11

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 1:57:02 PM

BipBip

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Nice. :)

(in reply to ComDev)

Post #: 12

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 2:20:57 PM

Gratch1111

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1/ People should be free to have any opinions they want
2/ Just because there are some things they miss or dont like shouldnt mean the whole thing is crap
3/ I have worked in the software industry and never did we or anyone else for that matter ever launch a program that was finished from the start when it comes to features and never was it bug free.

(in reply to BipBip)

Post #: 13

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 3:17:54 PM

thewood1

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It is not the review itself, but the fairly well known information that the reviewer has a running feud with the developers, including accusations of IP theft. Not only that, the reviewer has engaged with government projects using Harpoon as the platform. Either of those should have disqualified him from doing the review for an independent site. He obviously had not put a ;ot of time into even remotely understanding the game and its interface and that makes the review, combined with his history with the developers, have an odd tome to it.

If someone else had done the review I could easily look at it and agree with a lot of individual points. There have already been a couple reviews out similar to it. But the fact that none of the background was considered or disclaimed borders on either incompetence or malfeasance from and editorial standpoint.

(in reply to Gratch1111)

Post #: 14

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 3:31:27 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

He put that big red arrow there for a reason - it points at listed shortcuts to a selection of map options. The 'entire list' IS of map options, a fact cunningly hidden in the descriptive label 'Map Options Pull-down Menu'. As the stated aim was to disprove the generalized statement that "there are no hot-key functions whatsoever", the criticism of the criticism is therefore 100% correct. Whether it's profitable is another question.

That said, there are certainly not short-cuts for all the options, or indeed most of them - and mighty useful they would be. As would be noting the keys in the drop-down menu text.

You left out the words "in the menu". Changes the meaning. Is there a hot-key for turning on the sensors? No. The author isn't saying there are no hot-keys in the game. That's obviously false. He's saying he has to constantly click on that particular menu because there are no hot-keys for those menu items. Is it a nitpick? Absolutely.

We can attack the author for his past. We can attack him for being biased. We can even attack for poor grammar & writing skill but there was nothing dishonest in this case. There are no hot-keys whatsoever for that menu.

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Post #: 15

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 3:42:49 PM

ExMachina

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quote:

If someone else had done the review I could easily look at it and agree with a lot of individual points. There have already been a couple reviews out similar to it. But the fact that none of the background was considered or disclaimed borders on either incompetence or malfeasance from and editorial standpoint

Agree. The SimHQ review made a lot of criticisms that are on point (including the one being disputed here--HH was actually correct that the pull down menus do not list associated hot keys)

IMHO, the most damming criticism that can me made of the SimHQ review (outside of the author's intractable conflict-of-interest), is the omission of how the game's many positives offset the pettiness of the criticisms of its. While the nits that the SimHQ review picks are there, they are not of the same scale or quality as CMANO's many and immense positives.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 16

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 3:45:36 PM

thewood1

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Yeah, that's what I meant by tone. It was bug hunting at its finest. I see a lot of people talking about buying command after that review. It's kind of like..."if that is the worst that a guy like this can find, it must be pretty good".

(in reply to ExMachina)

Post #: 17

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 7:15:27 PM

tevans6220

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

It is not the review itself, but the fairly well known information that the reviewer has a running feud with the developers, including accusations of IP theft. Not only that, the reviewer has engaged with government projects using Harpoon as the platform. Either of those should have disqualified him from doing the review for an independent site. He obviously had not put a ;ot of time into even remotely understanding the game and its interface and that makes the review, combined with his history with the developers, have an odd tome to it.

If someone else had done the review I could easily look at it and agree with a lot of individual points. There have already been a couple reviews out similar to it. But the fact that none of the background was considered or disclaimed borders on either incompetence or malfeasance from and editorial standpoint.

Who cares? Did the review stop you from buying? Herman may have been a little biased in his review but no more so than those of you who automatically discredit it because of who wrote it. There's bias all around and it all stems from some stupid feud going back to Harpoon days. He may have got some things wrong in his review but it seems to me his review was pretty detailed which tells me he had to spend a fair amount of time with the game. Nitpicking about things he got wrong is just plain stupid. Name one review that gets 100% right, 100% of the time. There is none. And reviews are just opinions. This game is going to live or die based on it's merits and the support it gets. So far the support has been excellent and the game is too. Why worry about one review?

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 18

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 7:49:58 PM

thewood1

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Again...its about disclosure and the editorial process. A couple have written if they had known the connections of the author to Harpoon and the developers, it would have changed their view of review.

(in reply to tevans6220)

Post #: 19

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 8:07:21 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
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From: Cornwall, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

You left out the words "in the menu". Changes the meaning. Is there a hot-key for turning on the sensors? No. The author isn't saying there are no hot-keys in the game. That's obviously false. He's saying he has to constantly click on that particular menu because there are no hot-keys for those menu items. Is it a nitpick? Absolutely.

We can attack the author for his past. We can attack him for being biased. We can even attack for poor grammar & writing skill but there was nothing dishonest in this case. There are no hot-keys whatsoever for that menu.

I don't have the slightest idea what you are babbling about. No there aren't hot-keys for the sensors. Yes, there is hot-key to toggle the datablocks, for example. Both are items in the Map Settings menu, not in any other game menu. Hence, some. Hence, the claim there are 'none whatsoever' is 100% false.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 10/6/2013 8:09:38 PM >

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 20

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 9:23:53 PM

Mgellis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

It is not the review itself, but the fairly well known information that the reviewer has a running feud with the developers, including accusations of IP theft. Not only that, the reviewer has engaged with government projects using Harpoon as the platform. Either of those should have disqualified him from doing the review for an independent site. He obviously had not put a ;ot of time into even remotely understanding the game and its interface and that makes the review, combined with his history with the developers, have an odd tome to it.

If someone else had done the review I could easily look at it and agree with a lot of individual points. There have already been a couple reviews out similar to it. But the fact that none of the background was considered or disclaimed borders on either incompetence or malfeasance from and editorial standpoint.

Who cares? Did the review stop you from buying? Herman may have been a little biased in his review but no more so than those of you who automatically discredit it because of who wrote it. There's bias all around and it all stems from some stupid feud going back to Harpoon days. He may have got some things wrong in his review but it seems to me his review was pretty detailed which tells me he had to spend a fair amount of time with the game. Nitpicking about things he got wrong is just plain stupid. Name one review that gets 100% right, 100% of the time. There is none. And reviews are just opinions. This game is going to live or die based on it's merits and the support it gets. So far the support has been excellent and the game is too. Why worry about one review?

Unfortunately, the Harpoon database wars were so toxic that it is hard not to have some kind of bias about Herman.

Personally, I think the real issue is that Command just took away a lot of Herman's relevance and he knows it. The people complaining about his review are annoyed, I suspect, because they know it, too, and they feel he is not being honest, but is instead motivated more by ego and a desire to protect his turf than by any interest in the truth.

(in reply to tevans6220)

Post #: 21

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 9:38:01 PM

tevans6220

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Again...its about disclosure and the editorial process. A couple have written if they had known the connections of the author to Harpoon and the developers, it would have changed their view of review.

What difference does it make? You bought the game. I bought the game. People who read Herman's review bought the game. In a lot of ways the RPS review was just as critical. The problem that most of you have with Herman's review is that Herman wrote it. It goes back to Harpoon days and bitter feuding over a game. From what I've been able to read the Harpoon community has suffered greatly because of it. Why bring that crap here?

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion ever since Erik locked the thread announcing Herman's review. It's been downhill ever since. In the whole scheme of things Herman's review and all other reviews don't mean a thing. The game will live or die based on it's own merits and the support it gets. If this is the true successor to Harpoon then past Harpoon history doesn't mean a thing and a year from now all the reviews will basically be forgotten.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 22

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 9:50:46 PM

tevans6220

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Questions to Ponder: If Herman had written a review that gave wholehearted praise to the game, would his review still be discredited because it was written by Herman? Or would it generally be accepted as a good review despite the fact? Would full disclosure mean anything then? And what about journalistic integrity?

(in reply to tevans6220)

Post #: 23

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 9:51:02 PM

thewood1

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So why are you still responding...it obviously matters to me and not you.

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RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 10:15:12 PM

erichswafford

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The reviewer stated there are "no hot key functions whatsoever in the menu." That is demonstrably False.

In fact, there are hotkeys for the 3 of the most useful items which I routinely use to de-clutter the display as needed: Illumination, Datablocks and Datalinks.

Those 3 items are right there in the menu, and yet he claims there are "no hot key functions whatsoever in the menu."

_____________________________

My Command Review at SimHQ: http://www.simhq.com/daily-news/command-modern-airnaval-operations-1-01-review.html

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 25

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 10:15:16 PM

tevans6220

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

So why are you still responding...it obviously matters to me and not you.

Because I don't want to see the bickering and feuding that I've read about going on with Harpoon carry over to this game. I think it's a good game that could do without all the excess Harpoon baggage.

Besides, I really don't have anything else better to do.

< Message edited by tevans6220 -- 10/6/2013 10:18:31 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 10:18:06 PM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
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From: Western USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

I don't have the slightest idea what you are babbling about. No there aren't hot-keys for the sensors. Yes, there is hot-key to toggle the datablocks, for example. Both are items in the Map Settings menu, not in any other game menu. Hence, some. Hence, the claim there are 'none whatsoever' is 100% false.

There are no hotkeys shown for those menu items. "None whatsoever."

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 10/6/2013 10:20:21 PM >

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Post #: 27

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 10:30:45 PM

tevans6220

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kondor999

The reviewer stated there are "no hot key functions whatsoever in the menu." That is demonstrably False.

In fact, there are hotkeys for the 3 of the most useful items which I routinely use to de-clutter the display as needed: Illumination, Datablocks and Datalinks.

Those 3 items are right there in the menu, and yet he claims there are "no hot key functions whatsoever in the menu."

So in other words because the reviewer, Herman, was mistaken he is automatically a liar and up to no good. Sorry but I don't buy it. You're nitpicking to discredit the reviewer because you don't like him. As I said before no review gets it 100%, 100% of the time. Everybody makes mistakes without there being some underhanded motive involved. If you want to attack reviews try starting with those that give favorable reviews only because the publisher spends advertising dollars with their website. I've played nothing but this game since release and I'm still learning new stuff everyday. It stands to reason that any review of this game is going to miss things or be wrong about something. So lighten up.

(in reply to erichswafford)

Post #: 28

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 10:43:32 PM

Pii

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Yeah, that's what I meant by tone. It was bug hunting at its finest. I see a lot of people talking about buying command after that review. It's kind of like..."if that is the worst that a guy like this can find, it must be pretty good".

If it was bug hunting at its finest he would have listed many more.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 29

RE: That Command Review...more nonsense - 10/6/2013 11:16:19 PM

smudge56

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
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My god do you have any good things to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pii

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Yeah, that's what I meant by tone. It was bug hunting at its finest. I see a lot of people talking about buying command after that review. It's kind of like..."if that is the worst that a guy like this can find, it must be pretty good".

If it was bug hunting at its finest he would have listed many more.