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russian aviation on ground - 10/7/2013 8:26:21 AM   
dirtyharry500


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/29/2004
From: France
Status: offline 		hi
i'm playng a grand campaign pbem as russian, on mid 43 my aviation is grounded!! no flights could be ordered in any way ! cv 0 move 50 but no action on each group ?
i maintain my forces on a line from Leningrad to bryansk ,tula and South of moskow to ural but axe is in Stalingrad and all of tchetchenia
what is the rule which grounds russian aviation?

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/9/2013 6:00:27 PM   
dirtyharry500


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/29/2004
From: France
Status: offline 		no one to help me on this point?

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/9/2013 6:25:30 PM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline 		more detail is needed . generaly a soviet front is suported by a air army .

how many aircraft do you have ?
what is the percentage need to fly ?
what missions do you want to conduct ?



< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 10/9/2013 6:26:15 PM >

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/9/2013 8:46:07 PM   
dirtyharry500


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/29/2004
From: France
Status: offline 		ok i've : stavka with :long range air command and 3 airbases
baltic air command and 5 airbases
bielorussian front with :bielorussian air army and 6 airbases
bielorussian air command and :4 airbases
7 iak PVO air command and 1 airbase
3rd ukrainian front with : 5th air army and no airbase
transcaucasus front with no air army but 5 airbases
4th ukrainian front with : 4th air army and 6 airbases

order of battle : 27613 airplanes ready 26579
percentage need to fly :110 %

i need to bomb axe ground units to break attacks and also recon, it seems ressuply of partisans is conducted by night

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/9/2013 8:57:46 PM   
gingerbread


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From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtyharry500

ok i've : stavka with :long range air command and 3 airbases
baltic air command and 5 airbases
bielorussian front with :bielorussian air army and 6 airbases
bielorussian air command and :4 airbases
7 iak PVO air command and 1 airbase
3rd ukrainian front with : 5th air army and no airbase
transcaucasus front with no air army but 5 airbases
4th ukrainian front with : 4th air army and 6 airbases

order of battle : 27613 airplanes ready 26579
percentage need to fly :110 %

i need to bomb axe ground units to break attacks and also recon, it seems ressuply of partisans is conducted by night

Set this to 10%

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/9/2013 8:58:22 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		I have the same problem also playing against the AI.
My % required to fly is at 25%, most of my squadrons are at 75% or better, yet they won't fly. I am in March 1942
Funny thing is a much smaller russian air force in 1941 would fly 5-10 times more missions!! Yet I have not changed any settings. At some point in the middle of winter, the number of missions started dropping drastically, yet the % flow is less than 10% for almost the entire air force!
I attached the save file.

The air system in this game is maddening as most of the time you have no idea what's going on, there is no feedback at all as to why most of the planes won't fly.

Attachment (1)

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/10/2013 1:55:00 AM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Ok caliJP, I looked at your save so let me try and help you out.

18 of your SADs have disbanded over the last 6 weeks. That's normal and found in the game rules. It will continue to happen for a while yet. That is why you are flying fewer missions as air units end up in the National Reserve. It seems you have moved them back to air bases but for the time the bases disband until you get them back on the map, you will have fewer units.

I'd disband all the naval commands: Baltic, Northern and Black Sea Fleets. Reassign air bases from those disbanded HQs where you want them. I'd also dispose of the IAK and BAK commands and reassign airbase units there. You can leave all assigned DBADs from the BAKs that will default to Long Range Air Command.

You should upgrade those older I-153s and I-16s now since it is Spring 1942. You have the aircraft and admin points to do a significant overhaul.

Think about transferring Aleksandr Golovanov from Northwest Air Command with 3 airbases to a more active and important air command. He has an air rating of 7 and is your best air commander.

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 10/10/2013 1:57:18 AM >

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/10/2013 4:56:15 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		M60, than you for taking the time to look at it, much appreciated.
So yes after I posted this I started noticing that some airbases were going away
Still, as an example, if you look at the Airbases under the Southern Air Command: I have a nice mix of bombers and fighters there, yet almost all the squadrons have flown less than 15%, they are quite close to the front, yet (you can try) they won't fly anymore. Why is that? Shouldn't they fly until they reach a much higher %, closer to 100%, at least some of them? I only do bombing runs. So for example, if I am short of fighters to fly with the bombers, then the fighters should be at almost 100%. If I have an oversupply of fighters, then the bombers should be at 100%. No?

Good suggestion on further re-organisation, I will look at it some.
Good suggestion on upgrading planes, although I am saving my APs for now for building Tank corps and later Rifle corps, which is I think a bigger bang for the buck.

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/10/2013 8:40:26 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Check the weather, it's snowing and pilots don't fly as much in bad weather. Level bombers in particular have poor sortie rates in any weather that is not clear. And it's still March '42 so your rates will improve in general later in the war.

Also, when you do mass ground bombing missions as you are, the aircraft are in some case flying long distances from other air commands and that cuts down on effectiveness. Also with longer distances, those fighters you mix in the airbases may not have the range to provide fighter escort. Against a human opponent you would have bigger issues with enemy fighter intercepts, but seems you found a couple places the AI wasn't covering well.

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 10/10/2013 8:49:39 PM >

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/11/2013 12:20:49 AM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		M60 thanx again. OK during the clear weather weeks in spring 42 I am seeing a bit more action.
I may need to look at switching some fighter bombers to bomber mode also to increase the number of missions

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/11/2013 9:41:54 AM   
dirtyharry500


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/29/2004
From: France
Status: offline 		thx M60, it was a doctrine problem i'm adjusting parameters now

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/11/2013 11:06:04 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		gingerbread gave you the answer, so he gets credit for that one.

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/14/2013 4:05:30 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		M60, OK I bought your explanation originally about the airbases that had been disbanded contributing to low amount of flying missions. But now I am close to 30 turns later, and I have been transferring many squadrons each turn back to new airbases as the squadrons get to the full 20 planes allocation in the national reserve.
Still, my bombers hardly at all, almost all are <10%, many <5%, even though I have boatloads of fighters available for escort, which have hardly flown at all either. So I don't think that explanation is correct.

I attached a save file, can you take a look and find out what may be wrong?

Thank you

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/14/2013 4:07:24 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		file

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14
RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/14/2013 6:40:35 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I checked your battles and there are plenty of Soviet air craft flying. 9(!) GA on 80,84 with never less than 50 bombers.

You could crank up the Ground Support & Ground Attack doctrine percentages to 300% if you feel like it.

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Post #: 15
RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/15/2013 6:33:46 AM   
cpt flam


Posts: 2352
Joined: 1/16/2011
From: caen - France
Status: offline 		keep in mind that each airgroup will fly one bombing mission at most
same thing for their escort, must not have flawn before ground attack

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/15/2013 2:38:57 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		Thanx Gingerbread et merci Cpt Flam for answering, I think I am starting to understand. I did a side-by-side test with & without the 300% bump on GS and GA, and the result was exactly the same amount of attacks possible, so that had no effect.

So I think Cpt Flam is correct about what the limitation is, only one mission per squadron.

I think this means that at least for the soviets, the Air Force has no impact whatsoever on the war, and therefore no APs should ever be wasted on it, whether to replace leaders or anything else, as it's impact is negligible at best, right?

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Post #: 17
RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/15/2013 5:01:00 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		If you check the details of a battle report in which you had ~50 bombers contributing, you should see at least some Axis ground elements disrupted by air.

What I'm saying is that most of the effect of air is not outright des/dam.

It certainly does pay to do some TL&C but don't go overboard.

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Post #: 18
RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/15/2013 5:19:27 PM   
Bozo_the_Clown


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From: Bozotown
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quote:

I think this means that at least for the soviets, the Air Force has no impact whatsoever on the war, and therefore no APs should ever be wasted on it, whether to replace leaders or anything else, as it's impact is negligible at best, right?


I think the air war is one of the more flawed aspects of this game.

However, before you give up on the air war try bombing an HQ (even if it's stacked with another unit). Once I've had more then 800 soldiers killed in a single bombing run. A great method to get a guard air base. And don't forget night bombing with U2-VS.

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Post #: 19
RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/15/2013 6:29:06 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		Ginger and Bozo,

yeah don't give up on it entirely, but don't spend too much resources on it, we seem to agree.
I'll try the HQs, although usually humans want a HR on it to avoid too many leaders killed.
I enjoy bombing the Rumanian airfields also, at least it feels like I am doing something with the air force :)
Thanks for the insight.

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RE: russian aviation on ground - 10/15/2013 6:34:41 PM   
caliJP

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 8/5/2013
From: California
Status: offline 		BTW Gingerbread, yeah you get a little, but not much: For example right now I can have about 30ish ground bombing runs. I try to focus 8-10 runs on a single german stack to soften it before attacking, but I only get 2-3 defensive CV reduction, from a total of 30 to 60. That isn't much considering I focused 1/3 of the red army air force on it!!

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