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bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 6:24:27 AM

nukkxx5058
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I don't know why but there so many aspects of the game that seem having bugs ...

For example, I just classified a contact as commercial vessel but when I click the contact report button there is nothing indicated. It's completely blank. As there is an entry in the log, there should be something in this report too.

I find small problems like this one everywhere in the game ... It's a little bit annoying.
I hope the next patch will address these issues.

I'm also very frustrated by the lack of sounds in the game. When I'm in my sub I'd like to get a nice sub background noise with pings.

It's a pity because the game is very well designed and has a huge potential. But these small details are frustrating ...

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 6:58:29 AM

nukkxx5058
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OK, two more examples of possible bugs or problems.

1- a problem: the scoring model. I just got a message that my sub reached a mines area and I'm awarded 400 points. No idea why it's worth 400 points. And with these 400 pts I currently have an "average" evaluation. In my previous game, I had a total victory (or so...) with a score of 8. So I understand that this might be scenario specific but it makes no sense because of the lack of consistency. If in my next game I am awarded 50 points, will it be good or average ? You see ?

2- a bug ? the message mentioned above about the 400 points just disappeared from the log window which has refreshed blank. :-(

It's non stop, everywhere I look I have such small issues ... :-(

< Message edited by nukkxx -- 10/12/2013 6:59:27 AM >

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:07:55 AM

Dimitris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx
I don't know why but there so many aspects of the game that seem having bugs ...

Details?

quote:

For example, I just classified a contact as commercial vessel but when I click the contact report button there is nothing indicated. It's completely blank. As there is an entry in the log, there should be something in this report too.

No, unless you have precisely identified it. Precise ID is not the same as classification. The contact report loists emission and generates possible matches based on the emissions detected. If the tanker hs not radiating (or is using e.g. a generic nav radar) then it makes perfect sense that the contact report is empty.

quote:

I find small problems like this one everywhere in the game ... It's a little bit annoying.

Such as? Details please.

quote:

I hope the next patch will address these issues.

If we don't know about them, in detail, we cannot do anything about them.

quote:

I'm also very frustrated by the lack of sounds in the game. When I'm in my sub I'd like to get a nice sub background noise with pings.

...which you will turn off after 5 mins because it will be repetitive and boring.

Been there, done that, got the official t-shirt.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:12:27 AM

Amono
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Did You get a visual classification of the commercial ship? If the ship doesn't have any active emissions then You won't get anything in the contact report. It shows on
ly active things.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:21:25 AM

nukkxx5058
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amono

Did You get a visual classification of the commercial ship? If the ship doesn't have any active emissions then You won't get anything in the contact report. It shows on
ly active things.

Yes, I understand that but it shows in the log so there should be some consistency. I was in a sub. So how could I identify the contact other than with my sonar ? Therefore the IDed vessel should be in the report.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:23:08 AM

nukkxx5058
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quote:

Such as? Details please.

Well, I posted many messages during the past couple of days ... all of them describe what I consider to be a bug or a problem.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:25:09 AM

nukkxx5058
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quote:

quote:

I'm also very frustrated by the lack of sounds in the game. When I'm in my sub I'd like to get a nice sub background noise with pings.

...which you will turn off after 5 mins because it will be repetitive and boring.

Well, this is a stange comment ! shouldn't the devs develop something which is precisely NOT boring nor repetitive but attractive for the player ?

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:51:27 AM

goulash
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nukkxx I think the contact report button you are referring to will only identify active emissions from platforms e.g. radar emmisions etc. I don't think the devs use this for listening from a sub e.g. simulating narrowband detection/identification as per lets say a seawolf.

The question is should it be expanded for sub use in being able to identify a contacts. I know a sub commander can use narrowband etc to identify contacts but I am assuming this is a auto process for subs in the game (I hope so anyway).

As for sounds, I too, would hope that some better sounds can be implemented into the game but I do think the only way to do this is to have sounds only play for a single unit selected rather than trying to capture all sounds which sounds like a right mess and I have already turned off.

It would however be nice to be able to select a unit and just have the sounds relating to that unit playing. Maybe the devs could set something up like this and leave it to use to include the sound packs/effects.

As an example, if select a jet fighter, I would like to hear the quiet rumble of his engines consistently until deselected. I would like to hear the jet fire off a missile, drop a bomb load, get hit and that's about it.

The only way any decent sounds will work in a game like this would be for single selected units only. The programming would have to know what to do if multi platforms were selected.

As for loads of bugs = nah, not with you on that one pal. The game needs tweaks and in some areas can be really better implemented e.g. hyperlinks etc but buggy = defo not. Lets just hope we get some decent patches that show good improvements before they decide on what to do regarding expansions etc at a cost.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:55:17 AM

frpandore@free.fr
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Bonjour Nukkxx,

Tu es un peu dur, je trouve pour ma part qu'il n'y en a justement pas tant que ça pour une V1.

Concernant le contact report il ne t'affiches que le sensor et la platforme qui a détecté le contact, donc pas un bug dans ton cas puisque tu as 'forcé' l'identification.
Pour identifier un contact avec un sub : passive sonar & periscope !

Concernant le manque de son, tu es à la place d'un TAO ou amiral ou autre, dans un centre de contrôle... pas de boom ; bang ; glouglou et autre. Pour ma part, ce genre de son d'ambiance serait nuisible à l'immersion.
Pour le scoring model, effectivement, une victoire totale avec un score de 0, ç'est frustrant, mais c'est déjà signalé (par moi) et je ne doute pas que ce sera corrigé. D'autant plus que ça dépend plus à mon avis du scenarion design que du jeu lui-même.

Petite question : Comment force tu la classification neutral ?

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:57:57 AM

jomni
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I kinda got used to no sounds. :P

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 8:08:57 AM

navwarcol
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The scoring is scenario specific... just depends on whomever made the scenario in question, and what they decided is worth a lot as far as points... hopefully anyone designing scenarios also will mention how to score in the briefing as well.
As far as classification of contacts... if you detected it you are sometimes given some choices as to what it likely is, but the hardest part of naval warfare is probably holding contact long enough to actually classify it... and each time you lose contact..maybe it got quieter, or whatever the cause, perhaps you must reacquire the contact... it is sometimes rather annoying "in the field" trying to do this as well.... but it is not a bug, and you probably will enjoy the challenge as you start figuring it out. The one thing to mention if you are on a sub, is that you want to, as much as possible, only use passive sonars and listen, and go slow as well... it will make it a lot easier to classify (and hold) the contact.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 8:18:01 AM

nukkxx5058
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Salut frpandore,

Écoute, ça fait quelques jours que je joue et je ne vois que des petits problèmes un peu partout. C'est assez frustrant je trouve. Certains sont d'ordre ergonomique, d'autres me semblent être plus graves et lies à la modélisation des armes. Il y a énormément de comportement de mes plateformes/armes que je ne peux pas expliquer.

Et le manque de polissage du jeu, étant donné son prix, me pèse un peu.
Bon, je ne peux pas reprendre toutes mes remarques ici car ça fait une semaine que je poste des messages.

A propos des sons, je pense que les devs auraient du travailler une bonne bande son et de bons effets, quitte ensuite à ceux que ça gonfle de les désactiver. C'est la pratique unanime dans l'industrie du jeu vidéo depuis l'invention de la soundblaster. ;-)

Pour mon problème d'identification, mon sub était a env. -70m donc en dessous de la profondeur périscopique. Je persiste à penser que le contact aurait du figurer dans le "contact report".

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 8:48:08 AM

tk208
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I kinda got used to no sounds. :P

I've never even bothered with the sounds, don't know about the rest of you but if your worried about sounds you've got the wrong game.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 9:02:02 AM

goulash
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I'm not so much worried about the sounds but I do think they should be able to have a background soundtrack playing and off course moddable as well as the ability to have a few simple sounds that attach to selected to single unit only. Not essential but it would be a more genre noob inviting feature.

The current sound model looks as though they initially wanted the player to hear the whole battlefield which simply did not work. Whom knows, maybe down the line it can be re-visited but I agree, it is not a urgent or essential missing feature.

At the moment I'm just playing my own background soundtrack

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 10:09:29 AM

nukkxx5058
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tk208

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I kinda got used to no sounds. :P

I've never even bothered with the sounds, don't know about the rest of you but if your worried about sounds you've got the wrong game.

This comment is a little bit unfair ...
But when I'm buying a game, even if it's a harcore simulator, i'm not buying Matlab. Matlab would be perfect to compute accurate missiles trajectories. They might even have a toolspack for it. And there is no sound at all (and it's bugs free) !

You should consider buying it ...

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 10:12:03 AM

frpandore@free.fr
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Pour nukkxx,

Bon, je concède, c'est cher ! Mais...
Encore une fois, c'est la V1 et parti comme ça semble parti, nous avons à faire au successeur de Harpoon, qui a 20 ans et toujours autant de fans. Vois-tu beaucoup de jeux qui peuvent se targuer d'un tel engouement ? Franchement, moi pas. Je pense que si l'on compare à des jeux grands publics qui vont coûter 60€ et qui vont occuper le joueur quoi ? Une centaine d'heure peut-être 200 ?
Je suis certain pour ma part d'y jouer encore dans une dizaine d'année s'il n'a pas de successeur. D'autant que la communauté va nous pondre des scenarios à n'en plus finir et que le jeu va continuer à évoluer.

Alors quelques erreurs de jeunesse ne vont pas nous arrêter.

Au fait, en ce qui me concerne presque 75€ avec les taxes... Clair, ça fait mal au c.., mais bon, je n'ai pas pu résister depuis le temps que je suis l'affaire (red pill) !
Si tu veux un jeu un peu plus dans les standars actuels, je ne peux que te conseiller Dangerous Waters ; Une perle lui aussi dans son genre (8 an de jeu -par intermittence- et toujours autant de fun).

-Je sais pas toi en Bulgarie, mais ici, le temps est horrible ! Pluie ; feu de cheminée et CMANO :)-

Sorry -French meeting-

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 10:52:59 AM

Fishbed
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Nukkxx,

Je partage ton sentiment quelque part pour ce qui est de l'ambiance. Mais il faut bien te rendre compte que tu viens d'acquérir un jeu qui est le pinacle d'un genre qui a ses propres règles. En tant que successeurs de jeux tels que les différentes itérations de Harpoon (stratégie navale à l'échelle opérationnelle), il reprend les codes du genre. Et jamais le son n'a été quelque chose de fondamental dans le cahier des charges de ces différents logiciels (quasi semi-pro), Harpoon 3 étant le plus "sonore" et "visuel" de tous. Je suis d'avis de militer pour l'inclusion progressive de "chatter" et de sons adaptés (cf mes différents messages qui renvoient à l'ambiance de Fleet Command) mais les canons du genre en sont dépourvus.

Ce que j'entends par là, c'est qu'à la lecture de tes nombreux messages, il est clair que tu es un novice complet dans le genre et la discipline, d'où les réactions agacées de certains. Tu demandes des explications de texte là où de nombreux joueurs, qui savaient parfaitement ce qu'ils achetaient et ce qu'ils auraient entre les mains, n'ont aucun problème lié au jargon ou aux systèmes. Les phénomènes dont tu demandes l'explication sont pour un grand nombre d'entre nous des notions qui tombent sous le sens. Ne t'attends pas à ce qu'ils prennent tes remarques très au sérieux tant que tu ne seras pas à la page de ce côté-là.

- L'exemple de ta remarque "Yes, I understand that but it shows in the log so there should be some consistency. I was in a sub. So how could I identify the contact other than with my sonar ?" est flagrant. N'importe quel sous-marin moderne des années 80 peut repérer et classifier un contact
- de façon passive via l'ESM (une antenne qui sort à profondeur périscopique et qui répertorie les ondes qu'elle reçoit)
- de façon active via un radar (utilisable à profondeur périscopique)
- de façon visuelle avec un périscope (utilisable à profondeur périscopique)
- de façon active via un SONAR (un sonar ACTIF, le truc qui fait *ping* dans les films)
- de façon passive via les hydrophones (ou SONAR passif - on écoute le bruit de la mer), et là il y une différence entre les hydrophones de coque et l'hydrophone rétractable dans ton sillage
- de façon active via un SONAR haute fréquence (pour repérer par exemple les mines naviguer entre les icebergs)

Chacun de ces tirets correspond probablement à une entrée dans la fiche du sous-marin, avec ses propres caractéristiques et sa bulle de détection/classification. Pour certains d'entre nous ça coule de source. Et ces mêmes personnes peuvent se demander quel genre de crédit apporter aux remarques de quelqu'un qui n'aurait pas conscience de tout cela (je conçois que ce n'est pas très juste dans le principe, mais ils considèrent facilement que CMNAO est leur club, et que pour y entrer faut le mériter sur le plan des connaissances avant que de critiquer).

- Autre exemple: la mise en place du scoring pour chacun des scénarios est l'exemple même d'une liberté laissée aux concepteurs du scénario (qui doivent préciser leur approche dans le briefing) et caractéristique du genre: en parlant de cela tu ne critiques pas CMNAO en gros, tu critiques le concept, et les gens s'en offusquent. Evidemment, tu ne vas pas changer le genre, mais encore faut-il que tu saches que ça fait partie du genre, et que ce n'est pas le fruit d'une erreur des développeurs (et là tu peux forcément t'attendre à une volée de bois vert).

Moi je m'en fous, j'ai pas encore acheté le jeu et je ne suis pas un dév, mais bon tu t'imagines bien le niveau méta des usagers moyens et à quel point le genre leur est familier si moi-même je suis capable de savoir de quoi tu parles sans avoir le jeu.

Bref, tiens bon, lis un peu plus (leur manuel, mais aussi le manuel des jeux que Pandore te conseille, qui sont très bien). Comme tu es bon en anglais ce ne sera pas un souci. Je pense que le manuel de Redstorm Rising (qui est un très vieux jeu, - pas besoin d'y jouer mais le manuel est de la littérature d'introduction tip-top) est un bon point de départ clique sur le lien. Choppe aussi Redstorm Rising (le bouquin - en français Tempête Rouge) pour avoir une intro ludique au genre et une vision plus opérationnelle.

Allez, garde courage! Mais mets-toi à la page d'abord et reviens avec tes propositions, tu auras alors une audience plus... tolérante.

Amitiés

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 10/12/2013 10:55:27 AM >

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 10:57:06 AM

jmscho
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Personally, I get fed up with having to turn the soundtrack off on most games. Sound effects are slightly different. I might leave them on if they are giving me information I need - but that can nearly always be done by having some visual attention getter. If I need background music I expect to use my hifi/mp3 etc, then I don't have to suffer the music in the game repetitively especially if I'm going to have many hundreds of hours play.

As for the game being full of bugs. If that was the case it would be unplayable. There are a number of "features" that, no doubt, the developers are addressing. Give them time, report problems by all means, but let's quit sniping from the side-lines and give them some support.

Well done WarfareSims.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 1:06:09 PM

RockKahn
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Make your own steenking sounds! When I was little I played with plastic soldiers. I could make every sound needed at just the right moment for total immersion. Gunshots, machine guns, horses galloping, yelling, screaming, cannon fire, cows, chickens, pigs (I had a farm set, too.) I could do them all. Pings would be easy.

[shakinghead] Kids these days....... [/shakinghead]

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 1:07:14 PM

navwarcol
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I tend to agree on the sound effects.. Just plug in some Rammstein, and get me in the mood to sink something...

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 1:07:30 PM

thewood1
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Don't wnat to come across too harsh, but I have seen your posts and the majority of them seemed to be user error. You are asking a lot of questions a good sit down with the manual would hopefully rectify. The game is not 100% absolutely perfect, but taking some time to use the information available would go a long way to being able to point out real bugs.

I am worried you bought the wrong game.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 1:43:44 PM

nukkxx5058
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I would like to make you remark that sound is just one aspect of my comment.
Bugs (or what I consider as such), inconsistencies, and bizarre screens are a more serious issue. ;-0

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 1:58:00 PM

Banquet
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For me, if sound effects are done well they need not be repetitive or annoying and will add a lot to a game experience.

I don't expect or particularly want to hear whooshes of missiles or the roar of jet engines, but the sounds you would hear in a CiC operations room environment would be nice... I actually have no idea what those sounds would be but imagine radio message chatter and perhaps other vocal or computerised feedback of orders and events.

This would add tremendously to the game and, much as I love Command and am a big fan, this should be in a game of this price. It's not in 1.00 but I will be disappointed if it's not added at some point.

< Message edited by Banquet -- 10/12/2013 1:59:08 PM >

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 2:33:12 PM

jdkbph
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IMO sound effects are good if they communicate something important about the game or what's going on in the game. Ambient sounds I can do without.

rammstein. huh huh... huh huh huh... huh. yeah.

OP does raise an interesting point in my mind though. The game uses a standard Windows interface.... more or less. There are a few inconsistencies which I would like to see addressed (and I've already mentioned elsewhere) such as [OK] or [CLOSE] buttons for every window or dialog box. The idea of making a change to something in a window (eg, the weapons allocation window) then hitting the RED [X] to close the Window isn't intuitive to a Windows user. To me RED [X] has always signified "bail without changing anything". I'm looking for that [OK] button. Not a show stopper by any means but maybe something to consider as an enhancement down the road.

Anyway, the OP raised some issues/questions that should be answered in the game manual. However, a(nother) standard feature of the Windows interface, when fully developed at least, is context sensitive help. It would be great, I think - particularly for players new to the game or the genre - if every window and dialog had a help [?] button in the upper right that would open the relevant place in the game manual. Or, at the least, perhaps a hover balloon that would pop up if you idled the cursor over the title bar or something that would contain a brief description of what the window or feature or button is or does. In this case either should have answered the question about what the Contact Report dialog is and why it was blank.

Just a thought...

JD

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 2:42:56 PM

smudge56
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The last paragraph suggestion seems a good idea.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 2:59:32 PM

JeffP
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As far as bugs go in a first release of a simulation this complex, I'm surprised there aren't many more. As more people put more hours into playing the game of course more bugs will be found. I look at it this way; we could have waited a lifetime for a bug free simulation to be released. I'm glad the devs decided to release when they did. The sim is very playable and entertaining the way it is now. And with devs as motivated as the ones we have in Command, it will only get better. The best way to debug is to get hours of play time on the program which is what is happening now that it has been released to the public. The people who enjoy sims like this are passionate about the subject and perfectionists by nature. I'm sure that developers of sims like this are even more so. But if we waited on perfection, a sim this complex would have never been released and what a huge disappointment that would have been. SO when you find a bug or what you think is a bug, report it in detail and have some patience.

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RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 3:22:57 PM

smudge56
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Agree...

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Post #: 27

RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 3:34:56 PM

nukkxx5058
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdkbph

IMO sound effects are good if they communicate something important about the game or what's going on in the game. Ambient sounds I can do without.

rammstein. huh huh... huh huh huh... huh. yeah.

OP does raise an interesting point in my mind though. The game uses a standard Windows interface.... more or less. There are a few inconsistencies which I would like to see addressed (and I've already mentioned elsewhere) such as [OK] or [CLOSE] buttons for every window or dialog box. The idea of making a change to something in a window (eg, the weapons allocation window) then hitting the RED [X] to close the Window isn't intuitive to a Windows user. To me RED [X] has always signified "bail without changing anything". I'm looking for that [OK] button. Not a show stopper by any means but maybe something to consider as an enhancement down the road.

Anyway, the OP raised some issues/questions that should be answered in the game manual. However, a(nother) standard feature of the Windows interface, when fully developed at least, is context sensitive help. It would be great, I think - particularly for players new to the game or the genre - if every window and dialog had a help [?] button in the upper right that would open the relevant place in the game manual. Or, at the least, perhaps a hover balloon that would pop up if you idled the cursor over the title bar or something that would contain a brief description of what the window or feature or button is or does. In this case either should have answered the question about what the Contact Report dialog is and why it was blank.

Just a thought...

JD

+1 for everything.
All these contribute to my frustration.
But as it was said, these are minor changes and I'm confident they will be implemented. Sooner or later.

(in reply to jdkbph)

Post #: 28

RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 3:38:25 PM

nukkxx5058
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffP

I'm glad the devs decided to release when they did.

I'm glad too and I'm happy to help financing the project by buying the game even if it's not fully finished :-)
Don't get me wrong, the game is very promizing but maybe should I wait a bit before enjoying it in full ...
So far there are many oddities in the ships/weapons trajectories and behavior IMHO.

(in reply to JeffP)

Post #: 29

RE: bizare impression of bugs everywhere ... - 10/12/2013 7:29:46 PM

kaburke61
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

quote:

quote:

I'm also very frustrated by the lack of sounds in the game. When I'm in my sub I'd like to get a nice sub background noise with pings.

...which you will turn off after 5 mins because it will be repetitive and boring.

Well, this is a stange comment ! shouldn't the devs develop something which is precisely NOT boring nor repetitive but attractive for the player ?

Tell that to Dangerous Water Developers or 688i. When you were being "banged" (active sonars) repeatedly,the noise was absolutely annoying after a minute or two (turning off your sound systems was a crappy way of handling it as then you would not hear important messages like "torpedo in the water!". I myself do not wish for "ambience" noise, but I do agree more "alert" type audio would be great.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)

Post #: 30