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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich >> Scenarios and Modding >> Database Mod 33

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Database Mod 33 - 10/14/2013 8:59:11 PM

Turner

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Some players have come to realize the value and potential in the FW190 series, and favor it over the Bf109. It is only natural and a most logical conclusion as it was tougher and held greater development potential. The Bf109 design had arguably run its course and had been eclipsed by larger caliber weapons and more powerful engines than it was ever designed to handle. The minimalistic (resource economical) approach to the design work on the Bf109 ultimately left it in a vulnerable position as damage from larger caliber weapons and even the Browning .50 proved to be too much for it to cope with. Considering the crowd on this BBS I do not believe the point has to be proven, the Luftwaffe loss numbers speak for themselves and it is all quite well represented in this title Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich.

It is my understanding several people have modded this game since it was published by Matrix. I came in late, maybe about 2 years ago, at which point this forum had already declined in activity. Had it been based on a simple and accessible txt database I'd have been all over it from start, unfortunately much is encrypted in the exe and copyrighted. Maybe those problems can be solved some time in the future. For the time being, we can mod the database and that is what my intention is, with a twist.

If the Axis player choose the FW190 strategy, abandoning manufacture of the Bf109 series in part or entirely, he is left with a line of aircraft that poorly represent the Focke-Wulf designs and line of development. Not only that, the numerous jet designs are because of how they are implemented unattainable whose function in most cases have been reduced to resource traps. A Axis player choosing a strategy based on heavily investing in jet design(s) is very likely to simply run out of resources before ever seeing the exotic design(s) fielded.

While historically speaking these measures are warranted and well motivated, they reflect poorly in terms of gameplay and strategec diversity. That is, the Axis player is very (perhaps not completely because it also largely depends on the Allied player) locked into one particular strategy. The Ta152 type which is attainable as early as jan-feb 1944 a whole year before it was fielded historically.

It is my intention to address the problems above through database editing, the planeset primarily. Several of the advanced German designs never came to be and if you dig into the history of these projects there were various reasons for that. The Bf109H for example had inherent stability problems tied into structural design far more serious than what the Ta152H ever had, yet it delayed and even prevented the Ta152 type production for the RLM was so locked into procuring Messerschmitt's designs. Corruption, politics, deals under the table and the incompetence of G�ring & co shine through as a red tape through all of this. Ultimately the RLM found themselves betting on the wrong horses, eventually they caught on but at that point it was much much too late.

So... it is my intention to provide the Axis player with more options in strategy by implementing a more historically accurate optional line of aircraft of the FW190 and Ta152 family tree. Because of the limitations of the database, and perhaps most by the elusive exe code and bugs, this will come at a cost. Some types will need to be removed (see the Me209 already mentioned) to give room for a 190/152 type or they will be edited for other reasons. For example the /R6 versions of the 109 did suffer in performance, but primarily in speed not so much in maneuverability. Speed is a factor in maneuverability anyway.

I have tested changes in the db with success, and think that I'll release a sortof a preview edition of the db soon� with what is working so far.

It is all about providing more options, and the original (Matrix) database is -if you ask me- merely full of resource traps for the Axis player. The Allied player face more absolute challenges in the form of bugs and broken features, I hope those issues will be solved one day as well to bring the game to a new level of its true full potential. I'm intending to enhance the Allied planeset and options to the extent possible. Possibly introducing the B29, and one or two jet fighters quite possibly the P80 and Meteor in that case.

I do believe that what all of us want, for PBEM as well as vs the AI, is a more diversified menu of strategies to victory. Ultimately house rules will set the balance of the PBEM games, and players will tip the balance through their performance. All I can hope to give you is new challenges, and new ways to victory or inversely... defeat.

More info in follow up posts. The name of this mod is yet to be determined.

/N

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/26/2013 4:22:22 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

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Post #: 1

RE: Mission Statement - 10/14/2013 9:21:14 PM

Turner

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/14/2010
From: Sweden
Status: offline

It is my intention to address the Ta152 "problem" by introducing a historically correct line of aircraft leading up to the H and C types currently available in the game. This linear research rule has to be observed by players though as there is no method currently available to enforce it.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/14/2013 9:22:14 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 2

RE: Mission Statement - 10/14/2013 9:36:39 PM

Turner

Posts: 299
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Reposting in this thread as it relates to the topic.

This timeline is grossly simplified and some aspects are completely missing, among the missing parts is the Ta152B programme of mid-to-late '44 which featured a original 190 wing of 10.5 meter wingspan, the Jumo 213A engine and Mk103 cannons at inner wing stations.

May 1943 - Meeting between Focke-Wulf and Technisches Amt personnel on the creation of prototype/development aircraft for the new Ta152A.

7th July 1943 - First flight of the FW 190V19 W.Nr. 0041 the first Ta152 related prototype a/c.

October 1943 - First Focke-Wulf request to RLM for Ta152A development priority. Rejected.

23rd November 1943 - First flight of FW 190V20 W.Nr. 0042, TI+IG piloted by Hans Sander.

December 1943 - Second Focke-Wulf request to RLM for Ta152A development priority. Rejected.

January 1944 - Focke-Wulf representatives meet with RLM in an attempt to move ahead the second proposal which included not only the Ta152A but the FW190D and Ta152H as well. The H being in development for the H�henj�ger program. No official approval received from RLM. (Indeed, the Luftwaffe appears also to have wanted the Ta152A to go-ahead, and the type remained on the military procurement list until the early part of June 1944.)

February 1944 - FW 190V19 crash, complete loss.

13th March 1944 - First flight of FW190V21 W.Nr. 0043, TI+IH piloted by Bernhard M�rschel.

April 1944 - Night Fighter conversion prototyping of Ta152A type abandoned.

May 1944 - V21 W.Nr. 0043 assigned to E-Stelle Rechlin for field testing.

July 1944 - FW190V20 & V21 re-assigned to FW Ta152C development project. Eventually re-engined with DB603E or L-series engines.

5th August 1944 - 8th USAAF raid on Hannover-Langenhagen, V20 prototype a/c destroyed.

The B programme eventually did not materialize. The C programme was approved for production by RLM starting January 1945. The H programme started production even earlier than the C and contrary to the C is known to have seen combat and use in Jagdwaffe units.

The fact of the matter is, the Ta152 type could have seen active service within the first half of 1944 had the RLM not rejected the FW requests for priority. That is, had the programme officially been a priority with the resulting additional resources at hand. Granted, the first types of the 152 that would have seen service would not have been powered by the DB603LA but more likely the Jumo 213A and later E. The C and DB603LA would have seen service later in either case. So, the bottom line here and the point I'm making is that it is not historically inaccurate to have Ta152s fielded by mid-1944. January 1944 however, is straying quite afar from historical accuracy and into the highly unlikely.

Furthermore, and I quote "Nevertheless the FW190D-9 with its Jumo 213A in-line engine was actually a very capable performer in its own right, and has sometimes been erroneously described as the design that the Ta152 was derived from, which is not true." So... the two programs were not directly related, but parallel offspring to the Fw190A type.

It should be noted that the RLM eventually came to their senses realizing the necessity of the Ta152 programme by mid-1944, after the Allies had introduced the P-51D and other long-range types to establish air superiority all over the continent. The RLM then quickly approved of the FW190D programme which converted FW190A airframes to D standard, in order to provide a stop-gap measure before Ta152 production was a reality.

Then we all know the story of too little too late.

Source: Focke-Wulf Ta152, 4+ publication

If you read the Ta152 story and its relation to the Jumo 222 engine, you will also realize what the combination of the two would have meant. The Jumo 222 produced 2,163kW (2900 hp) at takeoff and would have maximized the performance of the Ta152 to the limitations of the airframe. The 152H was intended to be powered (as soon as the Jumo 222 was ready) by this massive 24-cylinder radial.

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 3

RE: Mission Statement - 10/15/2013 10:26:02 PM

Turner

Posts: 299
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From: Sweden
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Here is the first version for playtesting. It could be I went overboard in modifying and adding new types. Try it and let me know what you think. All new aircraft are based on actual designs that reached various stages of completion before the end of the war. Some never left the drawing board and one was a conceptual study, the mating of the Jumo 222 and the Ta152H airframe.

Download link

There is no readme included with this package. I'll writeup a short description of each new a/c type later, tomorrow maybe.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/16/2013 9:45:44 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

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Post #: 4

RE: Mission Statement - 10/15/2013 10:44:54 PM

Creeper

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From: Germany
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Thanks Turner!

Will test it tomorrow!

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 5

RE: Mission Statement - 10/16/2013 9:46:48 PM

Turner

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/14/2010
From: Sweden
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Updated Version Corrected a few naming errors.

Including readme this time, as below.

---

Database Mod 33-151013

Installation: Copy or extract files into the DAT folder. As always, make sure to backup original files!

Planes replaced:

Me109H - This type encountered aerodynamic instability and structural shortcomings. Issues that ultimately called for cancellation.
Me109Z - The concept of a twin fighter is inefficient and take on the shape of being more of a fun idea than a practical application.
Ju88G - I deemed this type replaceable considering the numerous night fighter types available.
G.56 Centauro II - See Ju88G
Ta183 - This is a resource trap, plain and simple, second generation jet engine means far too much development work.
BV155 - It is such a late design that it is practically not a factor. Replaced with a more potent and interesting type.

New types:

FW190A-7
This type introduced the MG131s replacing the MG17s. Since the whole 190 stable lack the lighter configuration of two
MG152/20s I decided this type should have it so that the player is give more options. Most if not all 190A types flew to some
extent when pilot or unit CO preference dictated so without the outboard cannons. Reducing TOW and adding slightly to maneuverability.
Availability date: nov-43 (historical)

FW190D-11
A later version of the D-9, the only difference being the armament of two MG151/20 (wingroot) + two Mk108 (outboard wing).
Availability: oct-44 (ahistorical, the type was manufactured in very few numbers yet the difference from a D-9 is marginal
and merely a matter of armament)

FW190D-15
Powered by the DB603L this type is more capable than the D-9. It also boasts significantly heavier armament.
Availability: march-45 (ahistorical, the type was never built before the ceasefire)

FW Ta152A-1
The A-1 was the first 152 type that would have been fielded had the RLM decided to grant Focke-Wulf priority in oct-43for their
fighter programme. It is powered by the Jumo 213A which didn't at the time lend very impressive performance to a aircraft
the size and weight of the Ta152A, especially with the heavy armament. A fast design nevertheless, just not very maneuverable.
Availability: may-44 (ahistorical, the type was never granted production status by the RLM)

FW Ta152B-2/R3
The A and B types shared much the same configurations for their planned sub-types. A-1 was similarly configured as B-1 etc. The
-1 had a engine mounted Mk108 whereas the -2 had it replaced with a Mk103. The B was a later version more intended for the heavy
fighter role (Zerst�rer) in order to replace the obsolete Bf110/Me410 fleet. The R3 modification added two underwing Mk103s.
Availability: july-44 (ahistorical, the type was never granted produciton status by the RLM)

FW Ta152B-5/N
The B-5 was intended to be armed with three Mk103s, one engine mounted and one in each wing root. This is a fictional Nachtjagd
version of the type.
Availability: august-44 (ahistorical, the 152/N program ended with frustation, as no satisfactory solution to flame damp the
engine was found, perhaps another case of German over-engineering as a simpler yet effective method could have been worked out)

FW Ta152H-8
The combination of the Ta152H airframe and Jumo 222 engine that never happened historically. The Jumo 222 just barely achieved
reliability standards meeting operational requirements before the ceasefire. It was intended to be installed in the 152H airframe
and produced some 2,900 HP on takeoff. The H-8 type is armed with three Mk103s.
Availability: march-45 (ahistorical, date is set to represent a very late entry due to the challenging engine development, the
type also has a engine requirement of 2)

Other than that, a few corrections in a/c type names. The armament of the Ho229 was fixed to its intended historical armament of 4 Mk103 cannons. Reduced range of the Mk108 to 3 (1500 ft) which is still quite long range for the weapon I'd argue. Lowering it further however (to 1000 ft) would demand rebalancing of all weapons. The Mk108 fired a low velocity round with a Vo of ~600 m/s which is very slow for high speed props requiring very demanding lead for accurate fire. The Mk103 fired a high velocity round of +900 m/s resulting in ~3 times the practical range and accuracy wasn't really comparable between the two because of the completely different trajectories.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/17/2013 6:51:38 AM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to Creeper)

Post #: 6

RE: Mission Statement - 10/17/2013 3:39:27 PM

Turner

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Joined: 9/14/2010
From: Sweden
Status: offline

New version

completely revised 190 lineup, A-7 removed/replaced by A-9 - 109 types got some speed changes according to data on kurfurst.org
Won't upload further updates until someone can give feedback on how these changes work out.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/17/2013 5:55:40 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 7

RE: Mission Statement - 10/18/2013 11:52:08 PM

Creeper

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From: Germany
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Turner, the Avalanche and the Nachtjagd I scenario, both have a wrong start date.
This must be a leftover from the buggy V1.14 editor.

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RE: Mission Statement - 10/26/2013 5:36:07 AM

Turner

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From: Sweden
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There was a issue also with fuel consumption, several 1-engine a/c were listed as 2 or 3 engine a/c. All will be fixed in the next update.

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

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Post #: 9

RE: Mission Statement - 10/26/2013 4:05:18 PM

Turner

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From: Sweden
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Here is a updated version which is reasonably close to what I imagined could be done with the database. The mod is intended for linear research house rules in PBEM games. The FW190D and Ta152 lines should be treated as separate lines of research, as they actually were historically! Bottom line is it's up to the players to set their own rules regarding research. Need feedback from playtesting!!!

Looking for someone who could do accurate bitmaps for the new aircraft types. Please PM me or post here if you know how to do this and I'll explain what these little known but historically correct additions should look like.

Always backup the original files! I take no responsibility for broken games or features.

BtR DBmod 33-131026

Above is a list of Axis aircraft included with this mod
and their manufacturing requirements. It is included
with the download. Some of the above types feature
subtypes.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/26/2013 6:04:36 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 10

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/27/2013 11:12:43 AM

Turner

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From: Sweden
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J-Staffel Erla was not assigned a air HQ, changed to Luftflotte Reich so they will enter the game at turn 90.

Lost track of all the changes quite a while ago. When this is finished I'll compile a list of all the major changes.

The correct date for the He219A-0 is October '43, A-2 is January '44.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/27/2013 12:08:57 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 11

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/27/2013 12:34:57 PM

Denniss

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No, He 219 A-2 is somewhere in June/July 44
See http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/RLM/RLMMar44.html - 65 A-0 delivered up to and including March with about 45 more to come. 40 were built earlier than Jan 44 so September 43 is more likely if you account for 10-15 a/c max per month and initial slow production ramp-up.

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 12

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/27/2013 12:53:40 PM

Turner

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From: Sweden
Status: offline

Thanks, and let me know if you see any other errors!

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/27/2013 1:01:35 PM >

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"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

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Post #: 13

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/27/2013 5:53:22 PM

Denniss

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Judging from the gfx posted above there are some more errors:
Mass deliveries of Bf 109 K-4 and G-10 started in 10/44 (judging from unit reports at http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/flugbew.htm )
The G-10 uses 605D engines as well
The Ju 388J used a turbocharged BMW 801J
The first Fw 190 A-8 were delivered in 3/44 (83 a/c)
Is the Fw 190 A-8/R7 just the armored variant or armor + 3cm guns? The latter was /R8, both usually had the fuselage MG removed.
Fw 190 D-11 and D-13 had the Jumo 213F, not the C (213C = A with provision to add a Motorkanone) but only the D-13 had a Motorkanone
All Fw 190D should probably use late Fw 190 parts
The Bf 109 G-14 used DB 605A engines, just the G-14/AS used AS engines. I have 2k g-14 and 1.3k G-14/As produced prior to 12/44 and 400 G-14 + 500 G-14/AS from 12/44
Bf 109 Ga-6 with 110 parts?

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 14

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/27/2013 8:26:17 PM

Turner

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From: Sweden
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Thanks good info, althought the Jumo 213A did not have provision for Motorkanone installation only the C and later did. Will make your suggested changes.

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

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Post #: 15

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/27/2013 11:44:08 PM

Denniss

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From: Germany, Hannover (region)
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I wasn't clear in my statement about the 213, there was no difference in engine power between 213A and C, just some engine equipment re-arranged/moved to provide space for an engine cannon in the 213C.

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 16

RE: Database Mod 33 - 10/30/2013 4:27:58 PM

Turner

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/14/2010
From: Sweden
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New name on this mod. Will post a new reworked release for playtesting. It will need to be playtested through a whole campaign to be sure and since no-one has given me feedback yet all playtesting so far is done by me. Anyway I'll post a new thread soon with download package for playtesting the mod. It is extensive for the Axis planeset.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/30/2013 4:29:24 PM >

_____________________________

"There are no desperate situations, only desperate people." - Heinz Guderian

Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

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Post #: 17