So who actually plays the pirates?

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So who actually plays the pirates? - 9/30/2013 8:56:02 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
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I must admit I liked the new ground combat, better UI and performance and I think the A.I is better.I also like the new achievement screen so I am happy with the expansion overall.

My issues is I am not sure having playable pirates was possibly worth the long development time when better things could have been put into the series.A Galatic senate with developed minor races ala CIV5 that give influence,etc,etc.

I got bored with both the pre warp Empire start as its very predictable and slow after a few times and playing pirates is not very interesting in my view so I'm back playing normal DW empire start again.

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 9/30/2013 9:06:55 PM

CyclopsSlayer

Posts: 583
Joined: 2/11/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I got bored with both the pre warp Empire start as its very predictable and slow after a few times and playing pirates is not very interesting in my view so I'm back playing normal DW empire start again.

I have to agree. Figuring out the pre-Warp start was interesting. Now I just bull rush through it with a couple quick standardized mods. Huge R&D Port? check... FAST Explorers? check... Get Guns/Fighters/Shields? check... Now it becomes just another classic game with the clock set a year later.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 2

RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 9/30/2013 9:57:07 PM

Fenrisfil

Posts: 216
Joined: 6/2/2013
Status: offline

Pre-Warp did turn out to be a bit of a novelty. I think it could have done with being fleshed out a bit more. but probably would have required additional game features to really make it work, such as alternates to warp drives (near-light drives, jump gates, etc), generation ships (non-warp colonisation that can reach outside the starting system), long range communication with other races, domed colonies on normally non-habitable planets and the possibility to have more than one empire inhabiting a starting planet (requiring you to either conquer your rival or convince them to merge with you).

Perhaps that would be asking too much, but certainly there could have been more variety with a deeper tech tree and alternatives to the "head for the magic ruin" start.

Pirates were amusing to play briefly but nowhere near as satisfying as playing a normal empire and the novelty wore off quickly. They can't really become a normal empire, they just get half way with planetary control and so you never evolve much past the usual pirate routine of building, threatening and raiding. It seems the concept would work better in a different type of game, more focused on small scale ship combat. Pirates lack variety and personality, something not helped by the generic pirate pictures and that bug that makes raiding pirates always use the race 0 troop image (though spawned pirate defenders seem to use the right image). I do like that they have their own ship builds and (potentially) ship images, but after playing several games that is about the only change to pirates I actually like. Whatever I set them as I find they detract from the empire game to such an extent now that on pre-warp games I regularly just turn them off (if they aren't hassling me and taking up too much of my time they are ruining rival empires and making my job far too easy). It has been a long time now since I actually bothered playing as a pirate.

I do like other additions for Shadows however. The new troops, improved invasions, new techs and design templates are all welcome additions and while the pre-warp game is lacking I do like the idea of starting with nothing built.

< Message edited by Fenrisfil -- 9/30/2013 9:59:28 PM >

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 3

RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/1/2013 1:28:06 AM

dostillevi

Posts: 222
Joined: 8/31/2012
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I definitely enjoy the pre-warp era and think its a good addition. Depending on your settings the pirates can be incredibly dangerous opponents well past the pre-warp era. It may not last long, but it can significantly shape the rest of the game by allowing other factions to get a foothold in the universe through organic gameplay rather than determined placement as with setting other empires to be slightly larger.

That said, I've only tried playing pirates once and I got confused. My own fault for sure.. I just enjoy playing empires so much!

(in reply to Fenrisfil)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/1/2013 12:11:40 PM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
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I found playing Pirates a novelty and quickly returned to Empire games. I didn't buy the expansion for Pirates.

I understand the view pre-warp is a bit formulaic and agree strongly with Fenrisfil some fleshing out would be great for variety. However, for me, the game feels incomplete without it, so I always play from pre-warp.

To be somewhat fair to pre-warp I find the entire game formulaic as the AI just isn't strong enough to force the player to change strategy. My interest in the game has been primarily driven by strategy optimisation, exploring the diversity in games possible in settings, but now that I can't see any way to materially optimise further I'm no longer playing. Thankfully strategy optimisation in DW requires many games so I've spent plenty of hours playing in recent months.

While playing what I found boring was:

(a) Explorers ... "move to". This is the best way to use them to quickly find goodies, and the advantage is significant, but it's really intensive on the micro when you build a lot of them. Some improved automation options might be merited in a future expansion / DW2. For example "explore only for potential specials", ideally configurable with special type.

(b) Early on with Shadows I would clear the map of Pirates as quickly as possible but then quickly lose interest and restart. More recently I just clear a ring around my territory and leave the other Pirates alone to keep the interest up.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 10/1/2013 12:15:09 PM >

(in reply to dostillevi)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/1/2013 2:05:41 PM

Canute0

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
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quote:

(a) Explorers ... "move to". This is the best way to use them to quickly find goodies, and the advantage is significant, but it's really intensive on the micro when you build a lot of them. Some improved automation options might be merited in a future expansion / DW2. For example "explore only for potential specials", ideally configurable with special type.

What are "potential specials" ?
Basicly any unexplored system are a potential special IMO. And that are what explorer do.
Yes i agree the current exploration automation are poor, ok its better then in the past, but still bad.
I do an compromis and let 1 explorer explore 1 sektor and then i send it manualy to the next one.

(in reply to Icemania)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/1/2013 4:35:07 PM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

quote:

(a) Explorers ... "move to". This is the best way to use them to quickly find goodies, and the advantage is significant, but it's really intensive on the micro when you build a lot of them. Some improved automation options might be merited in a future expansion / DW2. For example "explore only for potential specials", ideally configurable with special type.

What are "potential specials" ?
Basicly any unexplored system are a potential special IMO. And that are what explorer do.
Yes i agree the current exploration automation are poor, ok its better then in the past, but still bad.
I do an compromis and let 1 explorer explore 1 sektor and then i send it manualy to the next one.

Early game for nearby systems I'll explore whole systems (approximately 1-1.5 sectors in a circle around my homeworld) until strategic supplies are completely in hand (the search for Chromium sometimes excluded) and a good chunk of luxuries. Then, once an unexplored system is reached, I would only explore:
(a) Planets with Ruins
(b) Debris Fields (repairable ships, world destroyers)
(c) Planets that could have Super Luxuries (i.e. always certain types)

If nothing interesting then "move to" the next system.

Some may explore Colonisable Planets but I tend to leave them until a second wave (unless they are nearby).

This massively decreases the time required to find targets of strategic interest, which provide significant benefits to a growing empire ... as compared to exploring every useless ball of rock and gas giant in existence etc.

This would not be complex to code and could be adopted by the AI's to improve their current exploration efforts. However, to be effective, all AI's should also build more explorers.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 10/1/2013 4:46:37 PM >

(in reply to Canute0)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/2/2013 6:58:35 PM

Fenrisfil

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It would certainly be handy if you could set explorers not to bother with asteroids, not to send more than one explorer to the same system and never to go back (undirected) to a system it was attacked in.

It would also be handy in pre-warp if the AI could abandon following the design templates and build to a specific pre-warp template (i.e. lots more engines!).

I do continue to start my games at pre-warp, despite my complaints, so I guess it's not all bad. Although, the selection of pre-warp ship images I've added to my games helps to make it interesting. For some reason I get a kick out of playing with space shuttles and 40s sci-fi style space rockets.

(in reply to Icemania)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/4/2013 3:44:55 AM

elanaagain

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Joined: 6/6/2013
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I've been a DW player from the beginning. Played Space Empires, and Galactic Civ as well. Played the old space board games way back - like Stellar Conquest, and all the Simulations publications space games. I really enjoy the escapism they provide - even in retirement. I played a few DW games as pirates. Found I prefer a 'regular' game. I'm not to fond of the pre-warp game either- thought I do play on from time to time.

(in reply to Fenrisfil)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/4/2013 10:57:00 PM

Noble713

Posts: 53
Joined: 1/11/2011
From: Japan (US expat)
Status: offline

Another long-time 4X player (since Space Empires II and MoO2) and DW player since release. I made maybe 2-3 attempts at pirate games, pre-warp starts never caught my interest. Pretty much the new ground combat features were the selling point for me.

That said, I've been playing Aurora 4X almost exclusively to get my space empire fix because it has the one thing that I've been fiending for in DW since release: the ability to design my own ship components.

(in reply to elanaagain)

Post #: 10

RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/15/2013 8:01:01 AM

Buio

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Joined: 11/21/2012
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Played pre-warp empire a handful of times, quite fun. Last game was an classic game which was a lot of fun. Not played as a pirate yet, but will in time.

(in reply to Noble713)

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RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/18/2013 3:45:31 PM

Arakash

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/18/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

I played a few games as a pirate and pre-warp empire on launch and ive played a few since.
I actually like the depth you get with your empire when you start pre-warp. e.g. you can end noticeably ahead or behind of empires depending on research/pace of expansion. Lots of flavour to be found there.
I usually play pre-warp empire on 4x speed though, usually with protection fees. Any slower speeds really make it drag on.

I enjoyed playing as a pirate for a bit, but id agree it seems a novelty after some time. I was expecting to have some kind of event which eventually converted you to an empire when you took full control of a colony so i didnt have to micromanage freighters. I was very dissappointed when i discovered that never happens :(.

That said, i was happy with the amount of content in the expansion, even if some features were only worthy or trying a handful of times.

(in reply to Buio)

Post #: 12

RE: So who actually plays the pirates? - 10/18/2013 7:09:20 PM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arakash

I enjoyed playing as a pirate for a bit, but id agree it seems a novelty after some time. I was expecting to have some kind of event which eventually converted you to an empire when you took full control of a colony so i didnt have to micromanage freighters. I was very dissappointed when i discovered that never happens :(.

This! Agreed there needs to be some things added to make it worth playing as a pirate! Especially so you want to continue playing them as the game goes on!

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