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[FIXED B447] Winchester? At the airbase? Out of fuel?

 
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[FIXED B447] Winchester? At the airbase? Out of fuel? - 10/19/2013 8:10:37 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Ok I am playing a scen and I have had my F18's return to base and I want to get them loaded out for the next mission but they are listed as ---Winchester-- and ready in 3+ hours. What does this mean? I already have 4 listed in Maintenance which are useless for now. I can not ready 12 of my aircraft. Am I missing something? I can understand the maintenance ones but what is Winchester when already landed?

Edit: Also in the same scen I have some AV8B's that are hovering around the carrier and will not land. I have lost 2 AEW Sea Kings to this so I guess my three AV8's are next. I have looked and can see nothing wrong, I have tried many time to get them to land to no avail. I even launched some choppers to make room if that was it...

This is all in the same attached file..

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 10/22/2013 8:41:03 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 8:35:24 PM   
Pergite!

 

Posts: 546
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: The temperate climate zone
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan

Ok I am playing a scen and I have had my F18's return to base and I want to get them loaded out for the next mission but they are listed as ---Winchester-- and ready in 3+ hours. What does this mean? I already have 4 listed in Maintenance which are useless for now. I can not ready 12 of my aircraft. Am I missing something? I can understand the maintenance ones but what is Winchester when already landed?


"Winchester" is a air operations brevity code for "out of ammo". They need to re-arm and refuel, which takes 3 hrs in your current scenario. The ready times have been discussed intensely in another thread.

How come a "JRyan" missed the term "Winchester"? Have you been skipping pages in your Clancy?

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 2
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 8:37:50 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Does it say the ready time for the load-out is 3+ hours? Depending upon your load-out that is possible.

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Post #: 3
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 8:44:42 PM   
MaB1708

 

Posts: 336
Joined: 8/13/2006
From: Freiburg(Germany)
Status: offline 		Does not make sense. I would expect - and that is the result I have seen in the scens I played so far (not as much as I would like to), that returned aircraft change status to "Readying" or sth, loading it with the same loadout as before and giving the time it will take to re-arm.
An aircraft in my hangar that still says "Winchester" and a ready-time, no loadout - that would make me ask the same question, wether I read my Clancy cover to cover or not.
As I understand the question it has nothing to do with our discussion on ready-times.

No?



< Message edited by MartinB -- 10/19/2013 8:45:37 PM >

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 4
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 8:45:15 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		I think you misunderstand the question, Winchester I knew was out of ammo, but they have landed and a while ago...I need to load them out with iron bombs if need be but I can't (see pic).


(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 5
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 8:47:35 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Also...when one adds aircraft on Maintenance, then I assume they are not good for the whole scen? Not sure here but if that is the case, then I would just leave out of the scen as it is a distraction to keep looking back to see if they can be loaded out.

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 6
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 9:06:49 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline

I have had it happen to my Carrier now....seems Spain has more planes in 'Winchester' or 'Maintenance' than they do to fight. Not looking good...this can not be expected behavior..Build 444.


(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 7
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 9:27:27 PM   
mattpenfold

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline 		Have you checked that the carrier actually has sufficient ordinance to rearm the aircraft ? You get the situation you describe when you are trying to arm your planes when you have an insufficient quantity of them to do so.

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 8
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 9:32:05 PM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline 		I was thinking the 'Winchester' message for grounded, prepping aircraft was because the airbase didn't have the proper weapons in its magazines?

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(in reply to mattpenfold)
Post #: 9
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 9:38:40 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Well I always have iron bombs and there is still ATA loadouts...something is amiss with these planes and the airbase. I can reload others when they land....

(in reply to CV32)
Post #: 10
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 9:50:02 PM   
mattpenfold

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline 		The planes will try to rearm on landing with the ordinance they launched with. That other ordinance may be available will not stop them trying to re-arm with their original loadout - you need to manually intervene if you have run out of specific ordinance and want your places to arm with something else.

What are they they trying to arm with, and how many of those weapons do you have at the base ? You seem to be playing Canary's Cage. There are only 6 loadouts of AGM-64Es on the carrier in Gruppo Alfa. If you have already launched a strike using those weapons, and given you have five Harriers armed or arming with them, then you will have run out.

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 11
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 10:03:09 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		I understand but I can not manually do anything with the planes marked Winchester or maintenance(which I understand) here...
This is what I see when I try to do anything with the Winchester marked aircraft..



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Post #: 12
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 10:30:55 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Ethan can you post a save of the scenario with the Winchester Messages.

Thanks!

Mike

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Post #: 13
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 10:32:38 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Sure..Attached

Attachment (1)

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 14
RE: Winchester? - 10/19/2013 11:09:29 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Its getting worse..planes are coming back and going to Winchester Status.......If it is because of no ammo to reload last loadout, then fine but I should be able to choose another loadout.


(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 15
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 1:21:05 AM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Added questions on failing to land and running out of fuel to the main topic up top..

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 16
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 1:58:43 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan

Its getting worse..planes are coming back and going to Winchester Status.......If it is because of no ammo to reload last loadout, then fine but I should be able to choose another loadout.




That is the message I get when there are not enough stores in the magazine for a particular load out.


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(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 17
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 2:06:32 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Winchester is the winchester logic. I've pinged D on this as it should be suppressed from appearing here.

I'm on a new beta so as long as I have munitions I can switch to that loadout but to be clear you cannot switch to any loadout and you're not trying to add one that you're empty correct?

Mike

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Post #: 18
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 2:35:18 AM   
Maromak


Posts: 1030
Joined: 12/26/2007
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Hi JR. I reported the exact same issue last week (?) while I was playing Libyan Strike. Aircraft were returning to the carrier because they were 'winchester'. There was no more ammunition of a certain needed type for the aircraft loadout (which I already knew about). The aircraft landed and were 'stuck' in winchester status for the remainder of the scenario. The loadout could not be changed.

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Post #: 19
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 2:57:40 AM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, it is as Maromak has said, they land and stay at Winchester....

(in reply to Maromak)
Post #: 20
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 4:57:21 AM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Well the scen is over. I think I won as I had a major victory but zero points. I never could figure out how to deploy the marines etc...I had the landing craft near the drop zones etc. Its late and I am tired, I will have to find out tomorrow.

SIDE: Spain
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x AV-8B Harrier II+ [Night Attack]
6x F/A-18A Hornet
2x P-3B Orion
1x KC-130H Hercules [T.10]
2x SH-3H Sea King [HS.9]
1x Falcon 20C-ECM [TM.11]
1x AB.212 Colibri EW
1x SH-3W Sea King AEW


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
74x RIM-66M-2 SM-2MR Blk IIIA
130x AIM-120B AMRAAM
26x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
19x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
13x AIM-9L Sidewinder
2x 25mm GAU-12/U Burst [60 rnds]
24x AGM-84D Harpoon IC
45x AN/SSQ-62A DICASS
23x Mk46 NEARTIP Mod 5
14x AIM-9L-1 Sidewinder
5x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
15x AN/SSQ-53A DIFAR
22x AGM-88B HARM
14x AGM-65E Maverick Laser
15x RIM-66E SM-1MR Blk VI
11x F17 Mod 2
3x RUR-5A Mod 4 ASROC RTT [Mk46 Mod 5]
18x RGM-84D Harpoon IC
5x RIM-66A SM-1MR Blk IV
8x Mk245 GIANT Flare
114x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
85x 127mm/54 HECVT
4x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]



SIDE: NAIL
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
14x F-16C Blk 42 Falcon
3x E-2C Hawkeye Group II
5x Mirage F.1CH-200
4x 670 Ramadan
6x SA.565MA Panther
3x L 9030 Champlain [BATRAL Class]
4x SH-2G(E) Seasprite
2x F 911 Mubarak [Perry]
4x MiG-25P Foxbat A
8x Mirage F.1ED
4x MiG-29 Fulcrum C
11x Mirage F.1CH
4x S 849 Romeo
1x Sea King Mk47 [HAS.1]
2x Vehicle (AN/MPQ-55 ICWAR)
3x M192 I-HAWK
2x 012 Rais Hadj Mubarek [PL-877EKM Kilo]
3x F 946 Abu Qir [Descubierta]
1x S 311 Al Badr [PL-641 Foxtrot]
1x 801 Rais Hamidou [Pr.1234E Nanuchka II]
1x LST 1179 Newport
1x 416 Ziyad [Pr.1234E Nanuchka II]
2x F 951 Najim Al Zafir [Jianghu Type 053H(E)]
13x Su-24MK Fencer D
5x F-4E Phantom II
2x 901 Mourad Rais [Pr.1159 Koni]
3x Radar (AN/TPS-63)
10x SSC-3 Styx TELAR [3P51]
8x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19])
21x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail
12x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS
5x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125])


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
36x AN/SSQ-62C DICASS
44x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
26x AIM-7M Sparrow III
12x AIM-9M Sidewinder
8x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
16x Protean Chaff
5x RIM-66E6 SM-1MR Blk VIB
8x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
4x 20mm/85 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 0 Burst [200 rnds]
11x Mk182 SRBOC Chaff [Seduction]
44x Aspide
3x AA-6 Acrid A [R-40R, SARH]
9x AA-8 Aphid [R-60T]
19x Super R.530F
20x 30mm DEFA 553 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]
8x R.550 Magic 1
7x AA-11 Archer [R-73]
8x MIM-23B I-HAWK
6x UGM-84C Harpoon IB
1x NT-37F
21x 40mm/70 Single Bofors Burst [4 rnds]
4x Generic Acoustic Decoy
2x 53-65KE WH
7x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33]
2x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin Frag Burst [6 rnds]
5x AK-306 30mm/54 Gatling Burst [50 rnds]
2x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin HE Burst [6 rnds]
25x Generic Chaff Rocket
6x PK-16 Chaff [TSP-60U]
30x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
3x AGM-65B Maverick EO
2x AIM-7F Sparrow III
3x SET-65M Enot-2 [NATO ET-80A[76]]
2x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33M]
1x AK-726 76mm/60 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
3x AS-14 Kedge [Kh-29L]



SIDE: Neutral
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x Biologic Whale
6x False Contact (Small)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: Neutral
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------


(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 21
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 7:11:11 AM   
GameBoy

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for posting! I am experiencing the exact same problem and was about to ask about it on the forums.

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 22
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 9:33:59 AM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		Guys, help me a bit with this because I'm honestly not seeing a problem.

OK, so I load the provided save. Go to Moron airbase. Bring up the Air Ops window. I see a bunch of F-18s marked as Winchester. I select one of them, "Sqd111 #4". I click on the "Ready/Arm" button. The loadout selection window comes up. I select the "A/A: AIM-120B AMRAAM, Heavy" loadout. I click on "OK - Ready". The Air Ops window is refreshed and I see that the aircraft will be ready in 30 mins. I accelerate the time and the aircraft is indeed readied in 30 mins. (There is a UI bug here that, despite being ready, the aircraft row is still in red font, which should be used only for unavailable/winchester aircraft. But it's a visual, not functional bug. EDIT: Fixed in Build 446.). I select the aircraft and click on "Launch individually". The aircraft taxies to the runway and takes off.

So what am I missing?

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 10/20/2013 9:39:08 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 1:58:51 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, I will try and see if it is just my PC, who knows...

In the A/C you suggest I get this when trying to ready the specific aircraft..




Any other marked Winchester, I get this..




And finally I have it on the Spainish Carrier also....see the Harrier below,



and I just tested this issue with the following attached zip file: Canary's Cage 03



Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 24
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 2:57:10 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Yes exactly same issue with me. Same scenario.

Once all Harpoons are offloaded into the Moroccan fleet, the F18s remain Winchester at the A/B. They cannot be mounted with something else. Even F18s that were mounted Harpoons after starting the scenario with other weapons

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 25
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 3:21:52 PM   
Tomcat84

 

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Guys, help me a bit with this because I'm honestly not seeing a problem.

OK, so I load the provided save. Go to Moron airbase. Bring up the Air Ops window. I see a bunch of F-18s marked as Winchester. I select one of them, "Sqd111 #4". I click on the "Ready/Arm" button. The loadout selection window comes up. I select the "A/A: AIM-120B AMRAAM, Heavy" loadout. I click on "OK - Ready". The Air Ops window is refreshed and I see that the aircraft will be ready in 30 mins. I accelerate the time and the aircraft is indeed readied in 30 mins. (There is a UI bug here that, despite being ready, the aircraft row is still in red font, which should be used only for unavailable/winchester aircraft. But it's a visual, not functional bug. EDIT: Fixed in Build 446.). I select the aircraft and click on "Launch individually". The aircraft taxies to the runway and takes off.

So what am I missing?


Did you load it in editor or game mode?

This bug sounds the same as reported in closed beta a couple days ago by Maromak. I was able to replicate at the time. Unable to check right now with B446.



(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 26
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 4:35:49 PM   
Maromak


Posts: 1030
Joined: 12/26/2007
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I should also mention that I only saw this error occur while in game mode. In editor mode, the error doesn't seem to occur.

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Post #: 27
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 6:52:56 PM   
Dannyp19

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		I've had this same issue. A workaround I've found is using the mission editor to change load-outs. It works for the maintenance/unavailable aircraft also, Im thinking this is a bug.

Ive also noticed that if one weapon is not available on a load-out, that whole load-out is unavailable. Example: Ive got plenty of dumb bombs but no sidewinders so i cant load. Why cant I just load with dumb bombs and take off even with no sidewinders available?

(in reply to Maromak)
Post #: 28
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 8:05:13 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline 		You killed 4 whales





quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan

Well the scen is over. I think I won as I had a major victory but zero points. I never could figure out how to deploy the marines etc...I had the landing craft near the drop zones etc. Its late and I am tired, I will have to find out tomorrow.

SIDE: Spain
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x AV-8B Harrier II+ [Night Attack]
6x F/A-18A Hornet
2x P-3B Orion
1x KC-130H Hercules [T.10]
2x SH-3H Sea King [HS.9]
1x Falcon 20C-ECM [TM.11]
1x AB.212 Colibri EW
1x SH-3W Sea King AEW


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
74x RIM-66M-2 SM-2MR Blk IIIA
130x AIM-120B AMRAAM
26x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
19x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
13x AIM-9L Sidewinder
2x 25mm GAU-12/U Burst [60 rnds]
24x AGM-84D Harpoon IC
45x AN/SSQ-62A DICASS
23x Mk46 NEARTIP Mod 5
14x AIM-9L-1 Sidewinder
5x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
15x AN/SSQ-53A DIFAR
22x AGM-88B HARM
14x AGM-65E Maverick Laser
15x RIM-66E SM-1MR Blk VI
11x F17 Mod 2
3x RUR-5A Mod 4 ASROC RTT [Mk46 Mod 5]
18x RGM-84D Harpoon IC
5x RIM-66A SM-1MR Blk IV
8x Mk245 GIANT Flare
114x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
85x 127mm/54 HECVT
4x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]



SIDE: NAIL
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
14x F-16C Blk 42 Falcon
3x E-2C Hawkeye Group II
5x Mirage F.1CH-200
4x 670 Ramadan
6x SA.565MA Panther
3x L 9030 Champlain [BATRAL Class]
4x SH-2G(E) Seasprite
2x F 911 Mubarak [Perry]
4x MiG-25P Foxbat A
8x Mirage F.1ED
4x MiG-29 Fulcrum C
11x Mirage F.1CH
4x S 849 Romeo
1x Sea King Mk47 [HAS.1]
2x Vehicle (AN/MPQ-55 ICWAR)
3x M192 I-HAWK
2x 012 Rais Hadj Mubarek [PL-877EKM Kilo]
3x F 946 Abu Qir [Descubierta]
1x S 311 Al Badr [PL-641 Foxtrot]
1x 801 Rais Hamidou [Pr.1234E Nanuchka II]
1x LST 1179 Newport
1x 416 Ziyad [Pr.1234E Nanuchka II]
2x F 951 Najim Al Zafir [Jianghu Type 053H(E)]
13x Su-24MK Fencer D
5x F-4E Phantom II
2x 901 Mourad Rais [Pr.1159 Koni]
3x Radar (AN/TPS-63)
10x SSC-3 Styx TELAR [3P51]
8x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19])
21x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail
12x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS
5x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125])


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
36x AN/SSQ-62C DICASS
44x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
26x AIM-7M Sparrow III
12x AIM-9M Sidewinder
8x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
16x Protean Chaff
5x RIM-66E6 SM-1MR Blk VIB
8x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
4x 20mm/85 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 0 Burst [200 rnds]
11x Mk182 SRBOC Chaff [Seduction]
44x Aspide
3x AA-6 Acrid A [R-40R, SARH]
9x AA-8 Aphid [R-60T]
19x Super R.530F
20x 30mm DEFA 553 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]
8x R.550 Magic 1
7x AA-11 Archer [R-73]
8x MIM-23B I-HAWK
6x UGM-84C Harpoon IB
1x NT-37F
21x 40mm/70 Single Bofors Burst [4 rnds]
4x Generic Acoustic Decoy
2x 53-65KE WH
7x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33]
2x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin Frag Burst [6 rnds]
5x AK-306 30mm/54 Gatling Burst [50 rnds]
2x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin HE Burst [6 rnds]
25x Generic Chaff Rocket
6x PK-16 Chaff [TSP-60U]
30x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
3x AGM-65B Maverick EO
2x AIM-7F Sparrow III
3x SET-65M Enot-2 [NATO ET-80A[76]]
2x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33M]
1x AK-726 76mm/60 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
3x AS-14 Kedge [Kh-29L]



SIDE: Neutral
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x Biologic Whale
6x False Contact (Small)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: Neutral
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------




(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 29
RE: Winchester? - 10/20/2013 8:44:40 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56
You killed 4 whales



Sure did, I dont take chances..I have a contact that could be a threat..it dies.



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Post #: 30
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