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An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 8:02:34 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		How do the sales go ?
Can the number of copies sold be disclosed ? (let's dream)
Hope we can build a long term Flashpoint community !
Post #: 1
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 9:10:57 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Sales have been disappointing.

But we struggle on.

However, they are meeting expectations.

Doing even better than we thought they would be.


Those are the responses you normally get when you ask that question. Pick one and you're good. In a way they all fit.


I am more concerned with giving the best support for the game that we can give, than if we have sold "X" number of games. If you want to see how we compare to other games take a look at their thread count and their post count. Those will tell you how active the game itself is.

If you do the numbers by that criteria we are doing very well. Because it's building a community. FPC hasn't even been for sale 2 weeks yet and the response has been overwhelmingly positive.

Thanks to all of you for that.

We appreciate your time and commitment to the game, as well as your buying it. With your commitment to the game we could do no less than match that. Buying the game cost you a finite amount of money. Playing the game in your spare time is priceless because spare time is the most expensive thing in the world. Once it's gone you can never get it back.

In the coming months you should see much more of Flash Point Campaigns and the almost endless content that can be done with it.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/20/2013 9:31:37 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 2
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 9:20:02 AM   
rooivalk


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline 		You can count me in on payday [:)

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At Fiddler’s Green, where seamen true, when here they’ve done their duty, The bowl of grog shall still renew and pledge to love and beauty

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Post #: 3
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 9:33:51 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Welcome to the insanity!

We look forward to your participation in this journey with us.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/20/2013 9:34:27 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to rooivalk)
Post #: 4
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 9:47:20 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		I'm surprised I don't see reviews in large specialized magazines/website. I guess you sent promotional copies for review to all these websites ?

It's surprising because the game is objectively excellent, fully innovative (a new paradigm and not the n-th remake of the same old concept !). A very well polished game with nice maps, nice menus, efficient UI, great AI, scenario editor, moddable, campaigns, PBEM (but no TCP/IP games :-( ), apparently nearly infinite re-playability and a fully dedicated team. Etc. etc.

Well, all the ingredients of a blockbuster.

I think/hope this will be soon well known on the internet gaming community and that the sales will reach long term targets and hopefully largely over. It's all what I'm wishing you.

So once more, congratulations for this amazing game !

Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm is the best investment I made for years. As MR says, I have years of enjoyment in front of me for a handful of bucks. A great deal and great value for my hard earned cash !

(in reply to rooivalk)
Post #: 5
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 10:41:38 AM   
Radagy


Posts: 333
Joined: 5/22/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I think the real Achille's Heel of this game, just in terms of marketing, is his frame of time, which appeals just a small niche of players . Selling a game about an hypothetical past war is overly difficult and having already an active and large community is a clear sign that the system is polished and innovative.
I made an effort to get in the mood of simulating a war that has never happened and I guess I could because that I played that war infinite times thirty years ago (Assault, Baor, GDW's Third World War). It's a sort of way back to my youth.
I'm sure you will hook a new huge target of buyers as soon as you publish an expansion concerning:an hypothetical future war or a real war from the past (Korea, Vietnam, Arab-Israeli Wars, Afghanistan, Ww2).




< Message edited by Radagy -- 10/20/2013 10:42:55 AM >

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 6
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 10:43:58 AM   
Krupinski


Posts: 365
Joined: 8/28/2010
Status: offline 		I just made a bit "commercial" for this one in another (german) wargaming forum. Lets see if we can get more fans...

< Message edited by hafer -- 10/20/2013 10:44:42 AM >

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 7
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 10:47:33 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hafer

I just made a bit "commercial" for this one in another (german) wargaming forum. Lets see if we can get more fans...


Thanks. We appreciate any help you can give us in getting the game more exposure.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Krupinski)
Post #: 8
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 11:21:29 AM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Hi,

Yes... Cold War appeals to those of a certain generation... I am fifty-six so it does appeal to me.

WWII is the way to go.... don’t fight it... Eastern Front WWII is the big one for semi-operational games. You know I right....

The engine is superb... but if you do go WWII/when you go WWII, resist taking it down to a more tactical level. The unique combination of semi- operations and “command game....” features of this engine are what make it so outstanding.

Future wars I wouldn’t advocate because they are even more lethal. At the semi-operational scale all players would be able to see everything and hit it with standoff weapons. WWII is near uniquely interesting from a wargames point of view because mechanical engineering had matured but apart from radios there was not electronics. The defence and offence were in balance.

The nineteen eighties are about as late as you can go and still have an interesting semi-operational/fully operational game. WWI does not take the interest of many as a subject for wargames, nor will future war if realistically modelled. Both WWI and future war were/are too lethal given the technology available at the time.

Anyway... each to their own...

All the best,
Kip.


(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 9
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 11:24:31 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

I'm sure you will hook a new huge target of buyers as soon as you publish an expansion concerning:an hypothetical future war or a real war from the past (Korea, Vietnam, Arab-Israeli Wars, Afghanistan, Ww2).


+1 ! particularly for a hypothetical but realistic conflict.
My best option would be NATO+Israel vs. Syria+Iran+Russia.
Well, this would be WW3.

I also think that TCP-IP (ideally with a gamers ranking/scoring system) could be a big plus too.

Why can't I find reviews online ?

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 10
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 1:27:47 PM   
Thomasew

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/5/2012
From: Bluewater Bay, South Africa
Status: offline 		Hi,

I wouldn't say that Forum threads and Post count could really serve as an indication of how popular/successful a game is.

FPRS was released with relatively few bugs .. which, in this day and age, .. is a minor miracle.

The game is basically, fully playable right outta the box. It's only really a few UI type issues that need to be addressed/resolved, .. and a few sensible suggestions, which, .. let's hope, you developer types are savvy enough to filter the sensible ones, from the ludicrous ones. e.g. knowing whether it was .50 cal or grenades that killed my units. This is NOT a Squad level game. I don't need a gazillion bits of superfluous information.

So, with nothing to really complain about, .. why would the forum be that busy? If you release a new game, and the forum goes beserk, .. it's, no doubt .. due to numerous complaints about the game not working blah blah blah.

Anyway, I hope the game goes on to sell really well. I think, as others have mentioned, the Cold War in Europe is not to everyone's taste, .. and, with expansions into other areas of operations .. FPRS will have appeal to those sitting on the fence for now.

On the subject of expansions, .. please, please, please .. no WW II, and especially no Eastern Front in WW II. Those have been done to death.

1950s thru 2013, presents an incredible landscape from which to draw on Theatres of Operation/Battle, .. far more so .. than WW II.

So, thanks for a great game , .. it takes me back to my days of playing Tac-Air and GDW's Assault series.


Cheers
Tom





_____________________________

He Who Will Not Risk Cannot Win

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Post #: 11
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 1:32:59 PM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline 		It's a fabulous game. It's also a grognard-style, serious wargame. No matter how good it is, it's market is going to be bounded by some serious limits. The subject matter and setting I actually see as a positive, as the overlap between the people who would buy this sort of game and those who are interested in "classic" NATO/WP timeframes is pretty solid. Of course, WWII is the biggest draw, but it also has the most competition. This game occupies a relatively similar niche to Command Ops, but in a vastly different setting; I think that's good for both products. It also, one would hope, should synergize with CMANO pretty well.

But yeah, no one is going to go out and buy their own Ferrari making wargames.

(in reply to Thomasew)
Post #: 12
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 1:44:40 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		@Thomas..please dont say things like that..this is a unique game system and there is nothing like it for WW2..and the East front would be superb..also no matter how much you may not like it it is where the money is for future games covering the less well known conflicts. Really don't get why people say things like this. Setting out to deprive others what they enjoy. I have no interest in say in Middle eats warfare\Conflicts and it will also be a low seller if made, but I wouldn't tell OTS not to make it as I know others want to see it. Just because a wargame is WW2 it doesn't mean it's like all the others out there.

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https://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

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Post #: 13
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 1:55:06 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		WW2 eastern front would be a strategic mistake. The market is saturated with WW2 games. WITE has reached some top level and will be difficult to do better, even with the FP engine.

IMO Flashpoint should remain a modern time combat simulator. As Thomas says there are plenty of real and hypothetical conflicts in the 1950-2020 time frame.

In fact I'd love to see some top modern weapons and platforms, including lots of electronic warfare, drones, satellites, unconventional depleted uranium and fragmentation weapons, etc. etc. All these would be perfectly adapted to FCRS engine.

1980's is already .. 35 years old :-) but as it was nearly never treated in computer games we enjoy it. The challenge now will be to go to another setting. Gulf, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea, Africa, etc. I know I already said that many times but it's really my dream :-)

TOAW was a nice game covering these periods and I guess a big commercial succes too, so it's not impossible.

< Message edited by nukkxx -- 10/20/2013 1:56:26 PM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 14
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 1:59:10 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		As for websites we have been featured on Grogheads, Wargamer, Wargamer.Fr to name a few of the top of my head. Other sites have the product info. We are on Facebook and have been talked up on a few FaceBook sites too. And more stuff is planned. As MR pointed out, we are a week old!

Thanks to everyone for their overwhelming support!

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 15
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 2:35:12 PM   
BeastieDog


Posts: 95
Joined: 12/22/2006
Status: offline 		I bought based on comments in this forum. If you liked TacOps, this is better with a much improved AI.

_____________________________

Dog

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Post #: 16
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 2:47:03 PM   
Krupinski


Posts: 365
Joined: 8/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog
If you liked TacOps, this is better with a much improved AI.


Thats exactly what i thought!

(in reply to BeastieDog)
Post #: 17
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 2:57:29 PM   
BeastieDog


Posts: 95
Joined: 12/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hafer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog
If you liked TacOps, this is better with a much improved AI.


Thats exactly what i thought!


I usually wait until the first patch is out, but you can play this one right out of the box. I'd like to see more tactical air in the scenarios. I miss Avalon Hill's TacAir.


_____________________________

Dog

(in reply to Krupinski)
Post #: 18
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 3:54:27 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		@nukxx..your greatly mistaken..why do you think there are so many WW2 games..because they sell more than any others. Slitherine will back this up I'm sure. This has been proved right over the years..WW2 sells more than any other wargame, simple. If this had been an East front WW2 game I bet you any money that it would have sold far more than it has.

I'm starting to get abit miffed now over this issue. Really don't understand why people are so desperate to not let us WW2 gamers have something from this engine. It's already been said that the series will cover other modern wars..so your going to get what you want anyway, so why on earth are you so against others having something too?

As for WITE ..it's a totally different game at a different scale..your comparison makes no sense at all. I don't own it because I have no interest in that scale. You could say then that TOAW3 covers all modern conflicts so why make this game.

Anyway MR has said he also wants the game at some point to go WW2..so the matter for me is settled..and we all get what we want.

< Message edited by wodin -- 10/20/2013 3:59:07 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 4:07:22 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog

I'd like to see more tactical air in the scenarios. I miss Avalon Hill's TacAir.




The reason there is not more tactical air in the scenarios is my belief in the way the war would be fought.

1) Everybody on this planet realized that NATO intended on it's Air Force to make up for deficiencies it's ground forces have. The Soviets won WWII with their ground forces and intended doing the same thing in WWIII. Target #1 for the Warsaw Pact - NATO hard surface runways and airfields.

2) The advent of a more highly developed air defense system is deadly to ground attack aircraft. You have to choose your times and places to attack. Until the air defense can be suppressed there will be fewer CAS missions. Note the 73 Arab/Israeli War.

3) As NATO's airfields are slowly brought back to operational status many of those flights will be to strike WP airfields.


Add all that up and it leads to a scarcity of CAS in the game.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/20/2013 4:08:18 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to BeastieDog)
Post #: 20
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 4:12:24 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Guy's,

The game engine can and hopefully will over time hit different times and places. We have had WW2 on the list from practically day one of the 2.0 game engine development. This particular game engine is set to really handle Cold War to Modern fights. As we have said elsewhere, some scale and other internal code changes would need to be made to go into the discreet bubble of WW2 to do it justice with a grand tactical game engine.

And yes, everyone should be allowed to have a favorite place for this game to go and we all should respect that.

Thanks!

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 21
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 4:13:14 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

WW2 eastern front would be a strategic mistake. The market is saturated with WW2 games. WITE has reached some top level and will be difficult to do better, even with the FP engine.

IMO Flashpoint should remain a modern time combat simulator. As Thomas says there are plenty of real and hypothetical conflicts in the 1950-2020 time frame.

In fact I'd love to see some top modern weapons and platforms, including lots of electronic warfare, drones, satellites, unconventional depleted uranium and fragmentation weapons, etc. etc. All these would be perfectly adapted to FCRS engine.

1980's is already .. 35 years old :-) but as it was nearly never treated in computer games we enjoy it. The challenge now will be to go to another setting. Gulf, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea, Africa, etc. I know I already said that many times but it's really my dream :-)

TOAW was a nice game covering these periods and I guess a big commercial success too, so it's not impossible.


I think the engine would also work very well for early 20th century conflicts including World War One. The asymmetrical WeGo approach could be used to model the classic mid to late war situation of defender (to extent) being able to issue orders and request fire support relatively quickly as opposed to the attacker having relatively little chance to change orders to for units after then had left the front line.

This is also an period that is relatively little covered by tactical wargames although as was shown by the JTS Squad Battles title brought out earlier in the year there is lots of scope for interesting scenarios particularly if your base title covered the Western Front in 1918 (featuring Germany France the British Empire & the USA as the 4 initial nations) and the birth of modern combined arms warfare.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 22
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 5:17:49 PM   
moet


Posts: 194
Joined: 5/18/2008
From: Montréal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
As for websites we have been featured on Grogheads, Wargamer, Wargamer.Fr to name a few of the top of my head. Other sites have the product info. We are on Facebook and have been talked up on a few FaceBook sites too. And more stuff is planned. As MR pointed out, we are a week old!


This game is a great one, the best since Battles from the Bulge from my personal point of view. The fact that the war frame is hypothetical doesn't bother me since the way the game models war is realistic. Playing FCRS teach me how to act as a commander, and that's what I look for in wargames.

That's true that we didn't see yet many FCRS reviews yet, but I think "good wargame" reviewers are working on it. I myself started to write a review for wargamer.fr French website, but I'm beeing slowed by my regular work (bad personal timing...). I guess the review willl be post in about a week and a half.

In this respect, I still have very specific questions to the developers to help me getting a complete understanding of the game mechanics (see the questions here : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3443616&mpage=1&key=� .

< Message edited by moet -- 10/20/2013 5:19:25 PM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 23
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 5:42:16 PM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline 		I think the issue with the WWII/no WWII thing is not that the game wouldn't work for that time frame (it would), or that it wouldn't make for some interesting scenarios (it would), but that the classic NATO/WP period has so few games for it, and WWII has so many. Given infinite resources, sure, I'd love to see this system for WWII battles, though I think the scale would have to change perhaps. Given real-life constraints, I'd much, much rather have the developers focus on what I think is underrepresented, that is, modern, near-historical hypothetical modern, and related conflicts. I think this engine would, for instance, handle the 1973 October War well, and could be great for a near-historical/contemporary Korean conflict as well. Those have very few computer games devoted to them, whereas WWII has a bunch.

There is value in variety, but also danger. Focusing on one thing and doing it well is also a good idea.

(in reply to moet)
Post #: 24
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 6:15:46 PM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		Everybody has their preference i suppose, mine is WW2, but in this case i really don't care where they go....the system is great, i'll play anything in any time frame if it's going to be this much fun.....Bring it on.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)
Post #: 25
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 7:17:59 PM   
kemmo

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 7/16/2012
Status: offline 		I don't really have a favorite time period, the last game I got before Flashpoint was about Ancient Greek Warfare.But like budd says Flashpoint is a great a great system,and whatever direction it takes I'll be happy.Mad Russian mentioned time and money spent on the game,both well spent in my opinion.

(in reply to budd)
Post #: 26
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 7:42:43 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Funny enough I bought this up in the General Discussion forum. The answer was advertising makes little difference.

I'm sure though the developers would be more than happy to know their games where getting full exposure.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3440059



quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

I'm surprised I don't see reviews in large specialized magazines/website. I guess you sent promotional copies for review to all these websites ?

It's surprising because the game is objectively excellent, fully innovative (a new paradigm and not the n-th remake of the same old concept !). A very well polished game with nice maps, nice menus, efficient UI, great AI, scenario editor, moddable, campaigns, PBEM (but no TCP/IP games :-( ), apparently nearly infinite re-playability and a fully dedicated team. Etc. etc.

Well, all the ingredients of a blockbuster.

I think/hope this will be soon well known on the internet gaming community and that the sales will reach long term targets and hopefully largely over. It's all what I'm wishing you.

So once more, congratulations for this amazing game !

Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm is the best investment I made for years. As MR says, I have years of enjoyment in front of me for a handful of bucks. A great deal and great value for my hard earned cash !


< Message edited by wodin -- 10/20/2013 7:44:05 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/20/2013 10:19:42 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Some pretty fussy customers with differing tastes all seem to like the game. It's a niche product compared to Panzer Corps or Battlefield Academy. But I am hoping a big enough niche so we see lots of modules in the future.

Excuse me, Battle Academy

< Message edited by rosseau -- 10/20/2013 10:23:50 PM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 28
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/21/2013 8:51:30 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

WWII is the way to go.... don’t fight it... Eastern Front WWII is the big one for semi-operational games. You know I right....

The engine is superb... but if you do go WWII/when you go WWII, resist taking it down to a more tactical level. The unique combination of semi- operations and “command game....” features of this engine are what make it so outstanding.


Agree with the statement above. This is the first modern-era game I've bought in a very long time. I like it quite a bit but am not sure how long the subject matter will keep my attention.

WWII East Front on the other had would be awesome, I think the asymetric C3 we-go system would be really cool.

Don't get me wrong, the 80s iteration is a great game, and I look forward to future content.

(in reply to kipanderson)
Post #: 29
RE: An indiscreet question ... - 10/21/2013 9:02:11 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

WW2 eastern front would be a strategic mistake. The market is saturated with WW2 games. WITE has reached some top level and will be difficult to do better, even with the FP engine.


eh? WitE is a completely different scale/focus and moreover has serious issues in its representation of the conflict (at least in my view). The market is full of WWII games because people buy them...

There is only only one fairly recent WWII East Front game on a similar scale that I can think of, it was unplayable out of the box, and from what I saw received poor developer support--I gave up on it long ago.

BTW, I agree that Arab-Israeli Wars (1956-1973) would be an awesome expansion for this game.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 30
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